Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-20-2016, 04:07 PM   #1
glenn in camino
Senior Member
 
glenn in camino's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Camino, CA.
Posts: 3,086
Default Zenith carburetors

I have 5 Zenith carburetors that I just tried to rebuild. They're beautiful and they run good, but when I slow down to a stop, the engine dies. All the butterfly shafts are snug and the floats are within spec. I did not drill out the brass plugs, but I soaked all the parts in muratic acid and acetone, and blew out all the passages with air. Maybe I need to drill out the brass plugs and do the cleaning out again. What do you think?
glenn in camino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 04:55 PM   #2
Will Ziegler in LI NY
Senior Member
 
Will Ziegler in LI NY's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Northport, NY
Posts: 158
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

When I have had carbs do that it was usually related to the float height. Usually set to high.
Will Ziegler in LI NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 03-20-2016, 06:04 PM   #3
Capt Quahog
Senior Member
 
Capt Quahog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Barren windswept mountain somewhere in bleak Northeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 294
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Do yourself a big favor. If your Model A Ford is a driving car rather than a show piece, then remove the Zenith and replace it with a sweet running rebuilt / new MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor. Then, take the best looking of those Zenith carbs and as I did, mount the thing on a display stand for viewing. The antiquated troublesome Zeniths are most certainly very nice to look at.
Capt Quahog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 07:40 PM   #4
glenn in camino
Senior Member
 
glenn in camino's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Camino, CA.
Posts: 3,086
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

I got a nice email from my SoCal friend Tom Endy. Tom rebuilt carbs for many years and offered several suggestions for my problem. I'll try them starting next week. Thanks Tom.
glenn in camino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 08:58 PM   #5
HoarseWhisperer
Senior Member
 
HoarseWhisperer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,465
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Quahog View Post
Do yourself a big favor. If your Model A Ford is a driving car rather than a show piece, then remove the Zenith and replace it with a sweet running rebuilt / new MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor. Then, take the best looking of those Zenith carbs and as I did, mount the thing on a display stand for viewing. The antiquated troublesome Zeniths are most certainly very nice to look at.
Sorry, but properly rebuilt & jetted, my Zeniths have given me thousands of miles of great performance touring. Tom Endy is a good resource: https://www.brattons.com/media/wysiw..._-_11-2007.pdf
__________________
I know a lot of things; I just can't remember them all.

1928 CCPU 82-A
1931 Roadster 40-B Dlx (Canadian)
HoarseWhisperer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2016, 11:44 PM   #6
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,873
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Quahog View Post
Do yourself a big favor. If your Model A Ford is a driving car rather than a show piece, then remove the Zenith and replace it with a sweet running rebuilt / new MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor. Then, take the best looking of those Zenith carbs and as I did, mount the thing on a display stand for viewing. The antiquated troublesome Zeniths are most certainly very nice to look at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoarseWhisperer View Post
Sorry, but properly rebuilt & jetted, my Zeniths have given me thousands of miles of great performance touring. Tom Endy is a good resource: https://www.brattons.com/media/wysiw..._-_11-2007.pdf
Any of the carbs properly rebuilt will work great. Berts sells a rebuilt and tested unit. There are new tilistons, and zeniths available as well as the zenith forklift carb so popular a few years ago.

Check here, http://www.model-a.org/
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 06:24 AM   #7
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Ziegler in LI NY View Post
When I have had carbs do that it was usually related to the float height. Usually set to high.
Times 2
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 08:16 AM   #8
Mark in MT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Western MT
Posts: 193
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Stalling at a sudden stop is irritating, but fixable. If the throttle plate is not adjusted properly, the carb will not pull the fuel from the idle discharge port in the side of the bore. You will have trouble adjusting the idle mixture and raise the idle speed to compensate. Try loosening the throttle plate screws, and with the idle stop screw backed all the way out, tap on the plate while holding tension on the lever to close it. This will center the plate in the bore and place it near enough to the port to work right. Tighten the screws and hold it up to the light, it should almost black out the light. If there are warts, burrs, or pimples on the plate, remove it and dress it up with a file to get it smooth. Some of the plates have a notch or bevel on one side, that goes towards the port.

The idle jet must be sized correctly for your engine, if it is not right you can't get it to idle slow enough, and it will not run on the idle circuit. The idle circuit only operates at very slow idle. If you can't adjust idle quality with the air screw,it is idling too fast or the jet is the wrong size, or the idle port is plugged.

Properly adjusted, the Zenith will idle smoothly at 400 rpm and stay running during a hard stop. Once you get it right, it will run great.
__________________
Mark in MT

Always looking for another opportunity to be wrong.
Mark in MT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 10:56 AM   #9
pgerhardt
Senior Member
 
pgerhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Danbury Ct
Posts: 1,243
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

There are many who will state that if your Zenith has a problem it is just not set up correctly. This may be true, but the it is also a fact that Zenith themselves regarded their original design flawed enough to completely change it in 1932. Then there is the problem that things can change over time and even a properly set up Zenith that has run fine for months can suddenly start stop-stalling. Mine did!

I think it is fair to say that while a perfectly set up Zenith will result in a wonderfully running model A engine, it is not an as forgiving or resilient design as some others.

After my fully rebuilt and tested Zenith with flow tested jets (after months of no problems) started stop-stalling , I went with a Marvel carb and never looked back.

BTW if you are looking for one, look for the patent # 1536043.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screen Shot 2016-03-21 at 11.52.38 AM.jpg (41.5 KB, 231 views)
pgerhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 09:39 PM   #10
Capt Quahog
Senior Member
 
Capt Quahog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Barren windswept mountain somewhere in bleak Northeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 294
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
You just don't know how to properly rebuild one.
I don't rebuild carburetors as I have neither the skill, patience or inclination. Would rather leave it up to those competent who know what they're doing.

Meanwhile, look above at that sweet MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor!

Last edited by Capt Quahog; 08-18-2016 at 11:39 AM.
Capt Quahog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 10:06 PM   #11
harleynut
Senior Member
 
harleynut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh Pa
Posts: 278
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

I agree with Capt Quahog.....I put a Marvel on mine and it made very big difference.....I don't have the knack for rebuilding old carbs either.
harleynut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2016, 11:49 PM   #12
DougVieyra
Senior Member
 
DougVieyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Eureka, California
Posts: 1,716
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

So, if the MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor is so great - how come I can't find one ? What is the source for a M-S Carb. specifically made for the Ford Model A ?

I can easily find a number of websites (google search term "MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor") that can give websites for both the 'Marvel' and the 'Marvel Schebler' carburetor - but nothing that specifically is targeted for the Model A.

So, all you MARVEL-SCHEBLER fans, where can you direct a buyer to buy a new or rebuilt M-S Carb. for the Model A Ford ?
DougVieyra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 12:20 AM   #13
harleynut
Senior Member
 
harleynut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh Pa
Posts: 278
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

I got mine on e bay
harleynut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 03:36 AM   #14
DougVieyra
Senior Member
 
DougVieyra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Eureka, California
Posts: 1,716
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Thanks, harleynut. I did check on ebay and currently there is a "professionally" rebuilt one for $175.

One of the concerns that I had about Marvel-Schebler carburetors is getting parts for an obsolete and hard-to-find odd-ball carburetor.

It turns out that RENNER'S CORNER has a full line of parts to rebuild all aspects of the 'Allstate 2405' Marvel-Schebler Carburetor. So at least that makes the carburetor at least viable for use on a Model A.
DougVieyra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 04:16 AM   #15
700rpm
Senior Member
 
700rpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 5,260
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Henry made 5,000,000 Model A's using Zenith carbs, and had a direct hand in their design. That's good enough for me. If my Zeniths have a problem, I figure it's my fault, not Ford's.
__________________
Ray Horton, Beaver Chapter, MAFCA, Portland, OR


As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.
700rpm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 11:27 AM   #16
harleynut
Senior Member
 
harleynut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pittsburgh Pa
Posts: 278
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Doug, that's where I got mine and that's what I paid. Plus he bought old Tillotson from me that I had laying around.
harleynut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 04:44 PM   #17
pgerhardt
Senior Member
 
pgerhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Danbury Ct
Posts: 1,243
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougVieyra View Post
So, if the MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor is so great - how come I can't find one ? What is the source for a M-S Carb. specifically made for the Ford Model A ?

I can easily find a number of websites (google search term "MARVEL SCHEBLER carburetor") that can give websites for both the 'Marvel' and the 'Marvel Schebler' carburetor - but nothing that specifically is targeted for the Model A.

So, all you MARVEL-SCHEBLER fans, where can you direct a buyer to buy a new or rebuilt M-S Carb. for the Model A Ford ?
Look Here: http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...tor+&_sacat=0"

The first one id fully rebuilt and tested. It is what I am running.
pgerhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 04:57 PM   #18
pgerhardt
Senior Member
 
pgerhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Danbury Ct
Posts: 1,243
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Quote:
Originally Posted by 700rpm View Post
Henry made 5,000,000 Model A's using Zenith carbs, and had a direct hand in their design. That's good enough for me. If my Zeniths have a problem, I figure it's my fault, not Ford's.
I can not imagine the then old and incredibly rich Henry Ford sitting at a drafting table designing the Zenith carb. I can easily imagine him choosing the proposal from the Zenith company as his most cost effective carb solution.
pgerhardt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 05:02 PM   #19
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 7,936
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

Will an air maze bolt on??
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2016, 07:43 PM   #20
jeep44
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: canton,michigan
Posts: 312
Default Re: Zenith carburetors

I picked this grubby, dirty Marvel up a few weeks ago, when I went to see some Model A parts on Craigslist-it was sitting on a shelf with a couple of Zeniths and a bunch of Tillotsons. I got the kit from Renners, so I guess I'll be cleaning this one up and seeing how it does.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1579.jpg (34.6 KB, 54 views)
jeep44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:48 PM.