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Old 04-29-2019, 07:56 PM   #1
Lstinker
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Default Can you hot wire a model A?

Easter Sunday wife and I went for a ride 82 miles round trip. Stopped a few times and twice car would not fire until I turned the switch on and off a few times, it has a pop out switch. Today while checking I noticed both sides of the coil had power to it with the switch turned off. When I turned the switch on only one side of coil had power. Car starts fine now. My question is can you run a hot wire to the coil if the switch fails? Thanks in advance for all your help
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:05 PM   #2
Curtis in MA
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

I put the two wires on one post of the switch.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

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Originally Posted by Curtis in MA View Post
I put the two wires on one post of the switch.
This one a non-pop-out switch, of course.

The current path is Battery/Starter switch - yellow wire to junction box - yellow wire to ammeter - yellow & black ammeter back to junction box - black wire junction box to coil - red wire coil to popout switch head - popout switch head via armored cable to distributor/points - points to ground.

The point of the pop-out switch and armored cable was to prevent someone from hot-wiring the car. One needs to remove the Popout switch and replace that segment with a wire connecting the red wire to the distributor points.

Anything that does that will allow the car to be started.

IIRC, the popout can be disassembled ONLY if the pop-out is unlocked. If locked it takes a force-able and possibly destructive disassembly. And when locked, the points are grounded back through the armorned cable to the popout head thus short circuiting any attempt at hot-wiring.

If you have the aftermarket switch, yes, connect the gozinta to the gozouta and you too can steal that car.

https://lesmodela.files.wordpress.co...ng-diagram.pdf

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Last edited by Joe K; 04-29-2019 at 08:30 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 08:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

Take the distributor out of the motor, unwind the armoured cable and hot wire it from there? A lot of time and effort to steal a car a young thief wouldn't able to drive anyway, most likley. This, being your car, I suggest cleaning the contact at the end of the armoured cable. On the National Model A Rally in NZ only a couple of weeks ago, we had a car refuse to start for that reason. Once the problem was diagnosed, the fix took seconds.
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Old 04-29-2019, 09:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lstinker View Post
Easter Sunday wife and I went for a ride 82 miles round trip. Stopped a few times and twice car would not fire until I turned the switch on and off a few times, it has a pop out switch. Today while checking I noticed both sides of the coil had power to it with the switch turned off. When I turned the switch on only one side of coil had power. Car starts fine now. My question is can you run a hot wire to the coil if the switch fails? Thanks in advance for all your help
The short and simple answer to your question is: Not easily, not if you have wired the car per Henry's original wiring diagram and use a pop-out ignition switch.

The other answer given about removing the distributor from the engine, unwinding it from the armored cable, and then re-installing it with a hot wire (up to the red wire side of the coil) is correct. You have to remove the armored cable to the pop-out switch because it grounds the points when the switch is pushed in (off).

Bratton's sells an emergency ignition jumper for this purpose:
https://www.brattons.com/emergency-i...per-cable.html

I don't have one, but it looks like a good thing to have under the seat "just in case".
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Last edited by Jim/TX/GA; 04-30-2019 at 07:11 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 11:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

The coil WILL have power on both sides of the coil with the switch off as the ignition switch is after the coil. This setup makes hotwiring the car harder.
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Old 04-30-2019, 01:49 AM   #7
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

Yes, the coil with the ignition switch turned off will show power to both sides of the coil. One may need to know how to read a schematic or understand basic electricity to know why. First, the ignition switch does not provide power to the coil. Instead, the coil has one side connected to the battery and the other side goes through the ignition switch to place the coil in series with the points on the ground side of the circuit. With no load or ground in line, the other side of the coil is also "hot". With the key on, the other side of the coil will show zero or near zero as long as the points are closed, or it will measure hot if the points happen to be open at that time. The location of the switch in the circuit, combined with the armored cable make for a pretty hard system to hot wire. Anything is possible, but in this case, difficult.

You could re-wire it from the stock wiring so that the ignition switch would switch the battery voltage to the coil and the other side of the coil to the points, and then you would have a hot-wire-able car. But, why do that if you don't need to..
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Old 04-30-2019, 06:56 AM   #8
Ray64
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

When I got my car it was hotwired. Take screw that hold condenser out and use a long one with a wire attached to it. The end of wire goes to the coil This is done on the outside of dizzy I think I got that rt.
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:18 AM   #9
Kurt in NJ
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

If it is a properly working original popout the points are grounded in the off position, this way there is no simple way to "hot wire"
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

I hate to say this Kurt, but I don't think the points are grounded when the switch is off. I just went over the circuit and you may be right. It depends on the internal conductors in the switch. If it disconnects the switch from the coil while grounding the wire to the points , then it will work as you have pointed out. Jack

Last edited by jhowes; 04-30-2019 at 08:23 AM. Reason: mistake in reasoning
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowes View Post
I hate to say this Kurt, but I don't think the points are grounded when the switch is off. I just went over the circuit and you may be right. It depends on the internal conductors in the switch. If it disconnects the switch from the coil while grounding the wire to the points , then it will work as you have pointed out. Jack
Page 214 Service Bulletins 2nd Test. (Continuity test of ground feature)

Quote:
Place one test point on the primary terminal "D" (Fig 441) [this would be the point arm/spring] inside the distributer as in the first test and the other point on the switch casing "B" [pop-out exterior as in ground] With the switch locked the lamp should burn. [i.e. circuit continuity from points to ground] With the switch unlocked the lamp should not burn. [i.e. circuit open]
Age, time, and cycling wear may remove the grounding feature. Many pop-outs were replaced due to loss of ignition. One imagines not so many (probably none) due to loss of grounding.

The Service Bulletin section also talks about disassembly of the pop-out - but always starts the exercise with the switch unlocked.

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Old 04-30-2019, 06:07 PM   #12
Lstinker
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

Thanks guys for all the help looks like I should put in a new switch before I get stranded somewhere
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:11 PM   #13
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Default Re: Can you hot wire a model A?

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Originally Posted by Lstinker View Post
Thanks guys for all the help looks like I should put in a new switch before I get stranded somewhere
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