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Old 05-07-2017, 12:27 AM   #41
1952henry
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Default Re: New block

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
If you don't spend any time snooping-around over on the Model A side of the house, most of you would have no idea that Tod is not a newcomer to this "Design and build from scratch" idea. Y'all would do good to listen intently when Tod speaks about manufacturing engine blocks, etc! DD

True. Been interesting to read his progress on the A pages.
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:13 AM   #42
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Default Re: New block

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I just got an 8BA engine in that I plan on using the block for designing a new 8BA block. I need to tear it apart and then I can begin modeling up a new one with whatever improvements people can come up with. Any positive input will be appreciated.

I have several people already interested in these.

Tod
Maybe I have some comprehension problems but the only thing I see him asking for is improvements. Responses like full flow oil and thicker decks are good answers. I'm assuming that the improved technology of casting iron will help with the crack issue. A heavier duty web system would make it desirable for hot rodders. H&H makes am aluminum Ardun only block so there might be a market for it. But that is not what Tod asked.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:35 AM   #43
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Default Re: New block

I wonder if there would be a way to make the rear of the block casting so you could change cores and have the old style bellhousing or even something like a smallblock Ford. Could save people from having to look for parts or buy adapters. Just a question.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:52 AM   #44
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Default Re: New block

First of all, I would like to say that I have been following Tod's progress on the Model "A" block on the H.A.M.B. for the last several years, and have been very impressed. That being said, I think the project may not be worth pursuing for a very different reason. The guys mainly interested in these are all aging fast. Let's face it; a lot of us will be gone in the next ten years. I am willing to bet that there is an adequate supply of good flathead blocks stashed away by guys like us. I'm not nearly as serious about flatheads as most on this forum, but I have four good blocks "under the bench". Some of the guys out there (you know who you are) probably have 10 or more in their stashes. When this generation starts passing, these blocks will become available. I wouldn't be surprised that in 10 or 20 years, the supply of good blocks may exceed the demand. It's really hard to contemplate your own mortality, but those are the facts.

Oh, and I doubt if any of these will mistakenly go to the scrapper. I have made the facts of the value of this stuff abundantly clear to my family, so I believe they realize that some of this stuff is worth a lot. I have noticed on several of the forums I frequent that a lot of other guys in my situation are dong the same thing.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:18 AM   #45
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Default Re: New block

tubman, have your "stashed" blocks already been cleaned, magnafluxed, etc and are known to be usable without repair? I'm new to FH V8's but around my neck of the woods a 8ba that isn't froze up sells for 500-800 dollars and seems most buy at least 2 or 3 before they find one good enough to get repaired...
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:59 AM   #46
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Default Re: New block

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Originally Posted by 5851a View Post
I wonder if there would be a way to make the rear of the block casting so you could change cores and have the old style bellhousing or even something like a smallblock Ford. Could save people from having to look for parts or buy adapters. Just a question.
That is very possible.

Tod
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:49 PM   #47
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Default Re: New block

To expand on the bell housing topic, - put enough beef in it to be safely mounted on and engine stand.
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Old 05-07-2017, 01:59 PM   #48
Bruce Koukalaka
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Default Re: New block

As far as I'm concerned, if Tod could build a block that would accept stock parts, fit in the truck the way it is supposed to, and be able to be bored out, stroked, relieved, ported I'd buy one as soon as I could afford one.
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Old 05-07-2017, 04:50 PM   #49
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Default Re: New block

Tod the answer to your question about improvements is easy the way I see it. If you were able to get your hands on one of the French flathead blocks that were cast in the eighty's those blocks in my opinion have every improvement all of us would be happy with.
The deck thickness, material used in casting, the exhaust port design the center main support are just a few improvements compared to the Ford blocks.
Over the last few years I have been progressively pushing the Ford and French blocks to their limits in my Land Speed racing endeavors. Using gasoline and blower boost which is hard on any engine its extremely hard on our beloved flathead Ford V-8. The French block hands down takes far more abuse than the Ford casting before experiencing any failures. I would be happy to talk to you about this if your are interested.
Tod taking on this project I know from your experiance it will be worth the time and effort and some of us will certainly be buying the block when it becomes avalible.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:58 PM   #50
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Default Re: New block

Ron the roadster has a good point, but from a manufacturing point of view, I think the 8BA rear of the block would be the best choice as you can bolt any transmission made by Ford from 32 to 53 to it using stock parts. Yes there are some porting improvements that could be addressed with out affecting the use of stock parts. I think the biggest customer is a street builder who want's a reliable engine and not a 75 year odl casting.
Good luck.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:24 PM   #51
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Default Re: New block

Tod, at 900$ a block I would think there would quite a demand for them.
A guaranteed good block for 900$ heck yeah!!
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:32 PM   #52
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Default Re: New block

900$ ???????????????
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:50 PM   #53
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Default Re: New block

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Tod, at 900$ a block I would think there would quite a demand for them.
A guaranteed good block for 900$ heck yeah!!
Thats a raw casting, not a finished machined block......
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:35 PM   #54
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Default Re: New block

Last year I got a call for a block for a rebuild for a large 38 truck. I didn't have any early blocks for sale. A few months later I met him and he said he bought an 8bA block for 700 dollars. I thought that was alittle hi, but he said he couldn't find any good ones.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:39 AM   #55
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Default Re: New block

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Originally Posted by edhd58 View Post
Tod, at 900$ a block I would think there would quite a demand for them.
A guaranteed good block for 900$ heck yeah!!
I was being grilled about my knowledge of the industries involved in getting a block to market. I estimated that a CASTING would cost $900. That is based on what I know my other block castings have cost over the last 20 years. Then they need machined, caps, and finish machining.

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Old 05-08-2017, 05:53 AM   #56
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Default Re: New block

Give us an estimate...im familiar with the cost for developing stuff so if you come up with a number that will work i gladly pitch in to a development fond.
Ill donate $100 to research and development !!
Think there are more people around here that will do the same to make sure something like this really happens.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:12 AM   #57
Tod
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Default Re: New block

I'm initially estimating blocks rough machined and ready for finish machining, which means to individual customer specs in the low to mid 2k range ($2300-$2500) (I have found that people want different things like bore size, bushed lifter bores, cam bearings, deck heights, etc... but that all might not apply to this project).

The idea would be to supply machined blocks that can be finished by competent builders to stock and further. I learned early on when making FE blocks that no 2 people seem to want the same things so the best way to go about it from my end was supply something that could make any thing. Finish machine cost would depend on how much a person wants to veer from stock. If it is feasible, I could have finish machining done in my shop or locally by reputable shops. I do not have a line bore or line hone so I cannot do that right now. If need be I can figure on getting into that.

A 5 main version, or one with other modifications that have come up would obviously cost a little more.

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Old 05-08-2017, 08:55 AM   #58
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Default Re: New block

So a guy looking to build a hot rod goes out and buys himself an 8ba core motor complete carb to pan for $800.00. Tears it down and sends it to the machine shop where it is cleaned and maged only to find out it is cracked. OK so at this point he is down about 1k.
What to do now? Buy another core and repeat process with fingers crossed? find a good used block if lucky enough for 700.00 and still have to invest into reconditioning it?? Or buy a new machined block and take the guessing out of the equation? Pretty simple answer. By offering a new fully machined block you take the guess work out of what it would cost to build one and remove the risk of getting buried in a pile of junk cracked blocks. Your estimate is ball park where you need to be, although I would like it to be about 2200.00 max, but im a cheap bastard anyways.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:27 AM   #59
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Default Re: New block

Changing the main journal structure would take a different bottom end too. I think you have the right idea. If you stray too far from the OEM it complicates things. That may have been what stumped the Motor City project.

I think the French made block's biggest improvement was the modern casting material formula. It's a hybrid of the early 239 CID 99A/59A types and the later 8BA types. My only problem with it is that it is already relieved. Not much choice there. Even SF flatheads decided to remove that big governor lump on the back too. Starting with a fresh casting would eliminate stuff like that.

The 8BA would be the easier one to cast. The half bell part of the earlier block alone makes it a more complicated project. Changing exhaust ports may complicate things too. If anything grows larger or changes shape it makes for changes to water jackets or other internal/external block dimensions. Most Folks would like to be able to go out to at least 3 3/8" without worry but if the bore size grows too much, the whole block will have to grow too. I don't think anyone wants a 337 Lincoln sized block.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:50 AM   #60
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Default Re: New block

If a new cast block was priced at say $2500 I would think you could sell them faster than you could produce them!
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