Balancing brake drums

[grumppyoldman]

Have any of you had brake drums balanced? Am still trying to get rid of front wheel shimmy, just had front end work done yesterday. The front end adjustments made it worse than ever, cant drive through it like before. New tires were just balanced, I'm just wondering if the drums are causing the shimmy since they are the only thing that has not been balanced. Don't know if the drum, rim and tire could be balanced together, I've never tried it or don't know if a tire shop could, or would do it. What are your thoughts on this? Al

[V8COOPMAN]

Maybe an OLD tire shop with a floor-mounted spin balancer could at least do the fronts, and then mark (index) the wheel/lug positions. Did you say earlier that you have Coker tires? If so, many of them have come 'out of round' at no extra charge. DD

[fordwife]

Back in the day a lot of shops used a Hunter wheel balancer that would spin the wheel on the car and balance the whole assembly. Maybe you can find an old time shop that still has one of these.

[Andy]

I have a Hunter on the car balancer but I don't know how to use it. I use it to spin tires up to check them. You could check the drums on a bubble balancer. I have one of them too. I have taken the seals out of hubs and balanced the drums on the car. Just keep playing with it untill it does not seek a position.

[Bob C]

How about trying balancing beads?


Bob

[Brian]

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Aren't you running needle roller style kingpins? That'll do it!

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Brian

Aren't you running needle roller style kingpins? That'll do it!

That'll do what??

[Brian]

Shimmy

[grumppyoldman]

Yes I have the needle type king pins I installed last year, I've heard they were not that good. Made the steering better, but I could give up some easier steering for a more stable ride. I do have the Coker tires, haven't checked for out of round yet, will do that. The alignment of the front made it worse than ever before, don't know what they did, they are closed today. Going to measure the toe in to see how much they changed it from what it was. Grasping for straws now. Al

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by Brian

Shimmy

That's amazing because I have had king pin needle bearings installed for over 15 years without any issues.

[34fordy]

I believe it is highly unlikely that the brake drums could cause the car to be so bad that you could not drive the car--I do not know if your alignment person was competent or not--If you just put new tires on and the problem worsened it appears they could well be the cause--When I bought my 34 Fordor 4 years ago I could not get past 30 mph as the front fenders were bouncing terribly--I replaced the kingpins and adjusted the toe-in to where it should be--I checked to make sure all of the wheels were relatively true--No improvement--I did not suspect the new tires that came with the car could be out of round--To make a long story short, I took the tires to John Warden in Green Mountain, Iowa to put on his tire shaver to make sure that they were round--When he was done I removed all the weights on the rims and remounted the wheels to the car--No more shimmy or shaking at any speed--There are no balance weights on any of the wheels--Was I just lucky? Maybe--
I do know that finding someone to do good front end work is not easy--It takes time and some patience to get things tuned right--

[JSeery]

Have you tried different tires on the front, I don't remember?

[Kurt in NJ]

When the wheels were balanced how were they mounted on the machine---modern wheels can be balanced using centering cones, they are 'hub centric", the old wheels the center hub hole may not be center, they center with the lugs---the special lug centering adapter needs to be set up on the machine---if they bought the option, and know how to use it

[aussie merc]

defiantly find someone that can on car balance brake drums often have small weights spotted on to them ive even seen them on the brakedrums on trucks as for having work done on the front end and it made it worse i would be back on their doorstep raising hell and asking for the before and after settings to find out what they actally did if they did anything

[Paul Bennett]

On my search for new www tires I found many references to Coker tires which could not be balanced. It's best to stick around the balancing process area to assure you really get proper results. Some have reported unscrupulous mechanics giving the thumbs up although they couldn't achieve success. (BTW I chose Calli tires - better recommendations and considerably cheaper than Coker. I didn't chose because of price - it was a bonus.)

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by aussie merc

As for having work done on the front end and it made it worse i would be back on their doorstep raising hell and asking for the before and after settings to find out what they actally did if they did anything

You know, the only thing 'adjustable' (without a torch) on an early Ford is the toe-in. I find it hard to believe you took it somewhere that you couldn't stand there and watch. I find it hard to believe that you didn't drive straight back into that shop once you drove it around the block. I'd be jumping up and down on SOMEBODY's desk! Keep us updated! DD

[eddie48]

Many years ago I worked in a large tire shop. We always balanced front tires with the brake drums attached on a floor mounted spin balancer. As a bonus, the customer also had his/her wheel bearings cleaned, checked and re-packed. We got to see the brake shoes, which resulted in more work for the shop...brake jobs.

[john in illinois]

I have found a lot of tire balance and shimmy problems are caused by out of round wheel or tire.
industry standard limits are
Wheels radial .040. lateral .045
tires. radial. .060. lateral. .080

My 35 wheels meet this and my original 40 wheels also.

John

[RobR'35]

If u have all the same size tires.
For tryings sake. Rotate front tires and wheels with the rear and see if the results are the same.

[Kahuna]

ANYONE should be able to set Toe-In

[Drbrown]

All good ideas here. I though individual brake drums were balanced by the manufacturer. Of course if they are subsequently poorly machined, that might throw it off.

I think the old floor mounted spin balancer is the best because everything is installed together. But then one can't rotate the tires without upsetting that idea.

[grumppyoldman]

Found a shop that say's they balance brake drums, I'll see if that's true. Al

[grumppyoldman]

Burger flipper kid did not know the difference between tire and drum balancing , went to three different shops in three different towns. No one still has the old style equipment anymore. There were no weights on either drum. Dirt dobber nest in passenger rim. Going to try to balance them my self, if I screw them up I'll get some that have been balanced, Al

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by grumppyoldman

Burger flipper kid did not know the difference between tire and drum balancing , went to three different shops in three different towns. No one still has the old style equipment anymore. There were no weights on either drum. Dirt dobber nest in passenger rim. Going to try to balance them my self, if I screw them up I'll get some that have been balanced, Al

don't know how accurate their data is, but I just found out that tirerack.com has local partner shops they affiliate with to ship tires there and have them mounted for you if you buy online. I was looking for some local shops and pricing installs for tires on my truck and noticed that they list all the shops capabilities online. I found several local shops that listed road force balancing! tucked that little tidbit away for a rainy day!



road force balancing will balance the entire drum and wheel as a unit. just mark it all and keep them together.

[RobR'35]

Lug centric balancing (how it is on the car) is the best bet. Later style 1940 and up using the lug centric adapters will work good. Newer hunter machines have the capability for roadforce balancing, as I'm sure other machines have the capability too.
When ur dealing with wire wheels and lug centric balancing the adapter plates and pins won't work due to the hub cap opening 5.75" interfering with the 5.50" lug pattern which is inset 3.125" from to hub cap opening.(This on the 16" wire wheels that I know of)
An old drum balanced or a special plate made by a machine shop with 5 on 5.50" lugs installed with a center hole to accept the arbor adapting cone on the balance machine then balanced needs to be made up. Then bolted to the wheel and torqued (as on the car) then put on the balance machine to get the tire and wheel balanced correctly.
To mimic how it's installed on the car and torqued I feel is the proper way to get proper balancing for the tire and wheel.
Our wheels are pressed when manufactured. I'm not convinced the center hole it exactly center being it's a press that made them.
Just another way to look at it.

[Krylon32]

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I've found that many of the foreign made drums are very difficult to balance. I first bought my Lincoln drums from Speedway and they are foreign made and I had several complaints about balance problems. I obtained a MT dealership and started selling their USA made Lincoln drums with no customer complaints to date. They cost a little more but are well worth the money

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Bob C

How about trying balancing beads?


Bob

Has anyone tried these??....if they are effective, you would be able to rotate your tires and still be in balance.... if the tires are round to begin with... Mark

[JSeery]

Motorcycle guys use them.

[flatheadmurre]

We use balancing beads in heavier tires...works great.
And when the tire wear and you would have to get your wheel balanced again no need with the beeds.
The beads even out the unbalance everytime you start so you can rotate the wheels no worries.
Worst part is getting beads into tubes takes a bit of time.
If your tires are badly out of round balancing wont fix it.

[Automotive Stud]

If you take the wheel off and loosen the castle nut on the spindle, if the brake drum is that out of balance the heavy spot will fall to the middle. You could add weight to the top or drill into the bottom to remove material to balance it. I think you will find that it's not that far off. You should be able to set the toe in yourself, shoot for 1/16 toe in and you should be fine.

[estout81]

I'm using balancing beads in the tires on my '51 with good results. The tires are 205/75 15 mounted on stock rims.

[richard crow]

doe,s it shimey at a certain speed or just when you hit a bump that,s two different proulbems

[grumppyoldman]

The front end has had a shimmy since I bought the car ( at an auction ) the tires looked new. I had them balanced, no difference, had them rotated, no difference. Went to new Coker wide whites, balanced, no difference. Had front end checked out, replaced worn king pins and bushings with new king pins with needle bearings, still no difference, Had front alignment set, it was not done correctly, Set it back to 1/8th toe in. No change, pulled wheels and tires off, cleaned grease and removed seals from drums. Found a large dirt dobber nest in pass. side wheel. Removed dobber nest and took both front wheels back to be re-balanced. The pass. side was 1 1/2 oz. out of balance without dobber nest. Only got the driver's side brake drum checked, it has a heavy spot that returns back to bottom, so now when rain and mesquito's let me get back to work, maybe I'll get it finished. Thanks for all the suggestions and ideas. Al

[grumppyoldman]

I forgot to say that it starts the shimmy at around 55 mph, not caused by bumpy roads. It does it on smooth asphalt, and concrete, it's a cintrifugal force effect. ( I think ) Al

[JSeery]

Have you checked the rubber ball at the back of the wishbone? They can cause a problem.

[grumppyoldman]

Yes I tried to get movement from it with a pry bar, it has no visable movement, that I could see or feel. Al

[grumppyoldman]

I have now ordered new kink pins and BUSHINGS to replace the needle bearings. Have found an auto machine shop that has a Sunnen hone machine, and the proper mandrel. Will be going to see him when new parts arrive and installed. Some of you say the needle bearings don't work on the solid axles, so here we go again. Al

[Krylon32]

I know they're frowned on here but a good hydraulic steering stabilizer may be the answer if you continue to get shimmy after the rebuild. I have one on all 5 of my current cars and they drive great at any speed. They seem to make my straight axle cars drive a little better and they all have new components on the front. I get mine from either Pete and Jake's or So-Cal. Lightening may strike me for suggesting this?

[JSeery]

I don't believe there is anything wrong with using the stabilizers, they are OEM on many newer car/trucks. However, it is not a good idea to attempt to cover up a problem using one.

[grumppyoldman]

I forgot to mention , I already have the stabelizer, it didn't help. Sittin on fist reared back on thumb, waitin on parts. Al

[Krylon32]

How do you have your stabilizer mounted? It should go from the tie rod to the wishbone.

[grumppyoldman]

That's not the way mine is installed, I'll look at that hook-up, but it's not made to go to the wishbone, it goes from the drag link to the radius rod on mine. Al