Harbor Freight Tools vs. China Bashing

[ericr]

A recent post to a Newbie had repeated recommendations for Harbor Freight tools, which I understand are mainly China-made. But bashing of presumably-China-made Model "A" parts is constant in the Barn. It seems inconsistent to me...am I missing something?

[Mike V. Florida]

Harbor freight tools are throw away tools. If one has never used a grinder and after the job is done never will use one again, a 12 dollar tool with a replacement warranty is a great deal, use it throw it away. Compared to a several hundred dollar grinder that will just sit in a box until your heirs get rid of it.

The parts that will be used and seen for many years in you A, should be of good quality that will last as long as the car.

I see a big big difference.

[Russ/40]

You nailed it Mike!

[Joe K]

I see a big big difference.

.

Very agreed.

I also see a big difference between my Craftman/Sears socket set and the Snap-On tools I used to use at the farm.

Snap-On firmly adheres to the classic adage "The best tools are none too good." While the Sears tools hold more to "The best valued tools are none too good." While the Harbor Freight stuff holds to "The lowest price is the most cost effective price for homeowner use."

Were I to make my living using tools, it would be Snap-on all the way. As I don't have to count on my tools and cash conservation is a fact of life, I settle for less. Sometimes a LOT less.

I have tools of all kinds. Sadly, very little Snap-on. Mostly the Craftsman stuff for the stuff I count on - but a fair amount of pullers and slide hammers and the brute force stuff from HF.

I like Craftsman for the ease of purchase. While at the Farm, the Snap-on man came once every two weeks - rain or shine. Somehow, as a domestic tool user, I don't want to wait two weeks for my Snap-On guy to show up. Instead I can run over to Sears and (mostly) get a free socket to replace the one that split. (Although Sears is less well stocked than they used to be - Cobalt at Lowes is catching my eye.)

So truly, you get what you pay for. And no more clearly demonstrated than by comparing these three (or four) tool sources.

Joe K

[19ED30]

I wonder if China sell's the same Crap to there people!!

On Harber Fright tool's , I was helping a friend in a nother State,
Picked up a grinder , to my surprise there was a second set of brushes in box !!
I Shortly found out why

[Y-Blockhead]

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Originally Posted by Joe K

.

Very agreed.

I also see a big difference between my Craftman/Sears socket set and the Snap-On tools I used to use at the farm.

Snap-On firmly adheres to the classic adage "The best tools are none too good." While the Sears tools hold more to "The best valued tools are none too good." While the Harbor Freight stuff holds to "The lowest price is the most cost effective price for homeowner use."

Were I to make my living using tools, it would be Snap-on all the way. As I don't have to count on my tools and cash conservation is a fact of life, I settle for less. Sometimes a LOT less.

I have tools of all kinds. Sadly, very little Snap-on. Mostly the Craftsman stuff for the stuff I count on - but a fair amount of pullers and slide hammers and the brute force stuff from HF.

I like Craftsman for the ease of purchase. While at the Farm, the Snap-on man came once every two weeks - rain or shine. Somehow, as a domestic tool user, I don't want to wait two weeks for my Snap-On guy to show up. Instead I can run over to Sears and (mostly) get a free socket to replace the one that split. (Although Sears is less well stocked than they used to be - Cobalt at Lowes is catching my eye.)

So truly, you get what you pay for. And no more clearly demonstrated than by comparing these three (or four) tool sources.

Joe K

You checked Craftsman Tools lately. Notice some don't say Made in USA any more. That's because they are being Hecho en China...

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

You checked Craftsman Tools lately. Notice some don't say Made in USA any more. That's because they are being Hecho en China...

That's worth knowing. Glad I'm not stuck on them.

Thanks!
Joe K

[mshmodela]

I thankfully have my 64 year old SK Wayne socket and wrench set of my late Father. As a kid I would line up the wrenches in order as he worked on cars. This set works just as well just today as it I remember helping my Dad some 40 years ago. I have some craftsmen and a few snapon socket drivers but SK Wayne is the smoothest.

[gwhite]

I'm not a HF fan by any stretch, but I would recommend their metal shears...cut through the (approx 18 gauge) sheet metal on my stock T dash and the '32 dash I grafted to it like butter. Very pleased with them - and the result.

[wrndln]

Some HF tool are not too bad. Some are crap. I have purchased some HF pneumatic tools that have served me well, like a small right angle sander, die grinder, etc and they were quite cheap, less than $10 each. I have only had one of the air tools go bad after a lot of very heavy use. I oil them every time I use them. I am surprised the HF pneumatic tools have lasted so long, considering their low prices. I am sure they were made in China. Other HF tools are poorly made. I agree that if you are using a tool very seldom and it is made fairly well, HF stuff is probably OK. I am not a big fan of made in China anything, but I guess they are here to stay.
Rusty Nelson

[Joe K]

Originally Posted by Joe K

That's worth knowing. Glad I'm not stuck on them.

Thanks!
Joe K

And to further describe my disappointment (and in keeping with above) it is worth mentioning that I have given my son my dad's Craftsman socket set dating from 1938 (Dad was 16 years old when he was working on his 1928 Model A RPU with that set.)

But alas. I am not surprised that Hecho en China has raised it's ugly head even for something as American Apple Pie as Sears Craftsman tools.

The Chinese do see the market for what it is. And they respond to it.

A story. Traveling in my work, my wife would call me at points remote and complain about the old mower I owned. I'm the sort who gets an old mower at the dump and makes it work - and work - and work. Yes, they can be a challenge to start but somehow I make it happen. It's what I do.

Not so much my wife. Finally, dodging the complaint, I say to her "Go to Sears and pick out a new Craftsman mower," which she does.

Brand new. It starts on the 2nd pull - at first. But as the mowing season progresses, it gets harder and harder to start. Until finally around Labor Day even my herculean strength and Einsteinian wisdom about machinery could not make it work. Still under warranty, it went back. Sears replaces the mower in it's entirety and we were back to square one.

The following mowing season almost the exact same thing occurred. Easy start in the beginning but getting ever so much harder as the mowing season progressed. Even using Stable as Sears recommended did not help. By 4th of July the mower is inoperable. And now we're fully out of warranty.

Screw this, says I. Brand new mower now headed for the dump?

Reports on the Craftsman Mower on the Internet reveal that the EPA has gotten to Briggs & Stratton the motor manufacturer and the carburetors are no longer consumer adjustable. In fact, you don't adjust the carb at all - you buy a new one. Filled with a self adjusting choke and small passages, the cleanest of the new alcohol laden gas kills the carb in short order. It's a design made to die. But it satisfies the EPA.

Gotta love business/government collusion. Sure death to free enterprise or what?

But I have an out. Harbor Freight has "Predator" mower engines. So I gambled the $89 on sale and bought their vertical shaft mower engine. Heck I can hardly buy a new carb alone for the useless Craftsman mower for the same price. The reviews on the Internet were all glowing - the Predator engine is a Chinese clone of a Honda - and in fact parts will interchange with Honda Parts. (This apparently a big part of the Chinese business model - they make parts for you but you agree to let them compete against you directly under their own brand name.)

The Predator replacement engine for the Craftsman Briggs & Stratton on the old deck was straightforward. All the bolts line up, the cables match and are a direct connection similar to B&S. And best of all - everything works and works RIGHT. Even to a push button three times and pull twice to start. But it disappoints. It starts on the 1st pull.

And has ever since. Now at the end of a second year of mowing. No more complaints from the wife.

A lesson to be learned here. Don't buy AMERICAN CRAP. Don't support an obvious collusion when you see it. Base your purchase on the ability to get what YOU want - not what some pol or environmentalist or retailer or repairman wants.

Reward success in the marketplace by voting with your dollars.

Hard to always know what is best. The Internet helps you detect a charade in advance.

Do your research.

Joe K

[Y-Blockhead]

I actually like some things from HF. I just stay away from their electric tools or anything like a puller. And of course a lot of it is pure junk.

I bought a set of box end wrenches for a carry along tool box. They have never given me any grief. They were made in India...

Comparison of 7/16" wrenches, left to right; Harbor Freight, Chinese Craftsman, USA Craftsman, Snap-On. Notice how HUGE the "New" Craftsman head is. I assume it's that big to make it as strong as the old one because they are using junk metal. I much prefer the HF.


Chinese Craftsman on the left, USA Craftsman on the right.

[brito36]

I have always purchased the best tools either for home or work. I have bought tools only once. I am still using the Snap On and Craftsman tools that I purchased over forty years when I was an apprentice. I am glad that I bought the best, as I have not had to purchase them a second time.

I also go out of my way to locate and purchase tools that are made in this country. You now even have to look at some Snap On and Craftsman tools as they are made oversees.

[Doug in NJ]

The Kobalt line from Lowe's look quite nice, but they are more expensive than you might expect.

My most recent HF purchase was their air-operated planishing hammer. I was surprised how well it worked, although I had to do a bit of filing of the air gun to get it to seat properly in the frame...

Doug

[JackA]

i have never had a problem with their stuff and the price is right and believe me I have a lot.

[Tinker]

Personally. You never know what you'll get.

Wrenches? Ya... no thanks.
Wheel casters... Yes
2 ton press... Okay works great (simple construction).
Engine leveler... Rebought a good one as the cheap one binded up and was useless and dangerous.
Septic auger... Broke the first time i used it.
5 dollar paint gun... Worked great

I'm a semi proud owner of a hf blast cabinet that was given to me for free. Hmmm. Leaks like a siv and lighting sucks. Fixable and Happy to have it.

Some tools are fine if you spend the time fixing them before you use them.

But would I put any of that on my car, early or late ford? Nope.

[Paul's Garage]

Being retired and having more projects than money I do buy HF tools. I have found to look up the tool on line and check the reviews, they seem to be an honest representation of the most items. Also I ask the clerks at HF about returns on particular items, they will tell me if they get allot of returns for that item. I am using a their Heavy Duty grinder now for over 2 years and have cut huge amounts of metal with it (the clerk said they never get them back) not bad for $19 lasted much longer than the one from Northern Tools that I paid allot more for. My 2 cents worth.

[ursus]

Why not try the recycle stores. There is one nearby that I check out weekly. Folks that are clearing out granpa's house dump off an amazing range of tools that the new generation cannot even begin to recognize. Sockets of all sizes at 25 cents to 50 cents each, of all kinds of provenance. I fish through the bins for the older domestic stuff and it is amazing what can be found. I have picked all kinds of original Ford and K.R Wilson tools. An unused set of Model A valve seat grinders for 75 cents - why not? I have found stuff of a level of quality that is no longer being produced anywhere. The recycle store only holds thing for a month or so before before sending it off to the scrappers. I wonder what China does with Ford chrome-vanadium steel these days?

[45GPW]

Originally Posted by Joe K

Somehow, as a domestic tool user, I don't want to wait two weeks for my Snap-On guy to show up. Instead I can run over to Sears and (mostly) get a free socket to replace the one that split. (Although Sears is less well stocked than they used to be - Cobalt at Lowes is catching my eye.)

So truly, you get what you pay for. And no more clearly demonstrated than by comparing these three (or four) tool sources.

You might be surprised at how many Snap-On tools are now made in China. Not a majority by any means (probably not even 10%), but the percentage keeps increasing and it's enough to annoy some of us who have been long-time Snap-On customers.

Williams (Snap-On's second-tier industrial brand) is more and more Asian-made as well.

Same holds true for the other professional truck brands--Mac and Matco--both having considerably larger percentages of Asian-made tools than Snap-On does.

I think Cobalt at Lowes is almost all Asian-made.

Craftsman is probably 50/50 Asian/American now, if not more skewed toward the far east. It's been a while since I've been in a SearsMart store.

If you want quality American-made tools today at price-points well below Snap-On, the choices are Proto, Blackhawk (Stanley-Proto's second-tier brand), S-K, and Wright. All are either 100% American-made or very nearly so.

I'm not against Chinese tools simply because they're Chinese; I'm against poor-quality tools in general. I made my living and supported my family using quality American-made tools, and now, even in retirement, I refuse to use throw-away tools, or tools I have to "fix" before they're usable. And you can't simply blame the Chinese for the lack of quality. The average American consumer seems to think low price is more important than high quality, and the American companies that have shifted their production to China or Taiwan or India are just trying to meet consumer expectations.

Another reason I buy and use American is that I think it borders on sacrilege to use Asian tools on old American cars. No problem if others don't agree with that; it's a very personal opinion. Sometimes, instead of using my own 60s and 70s vintage tools, I use dad's 30s and 40s vintage Snap-On and Plomb (Proto) tools when working on my old cars and tractors, and that makes me think of him, and how he supported us with those tools, and that's pretty cool in itself. Maybe someday my kids will think of me that way too.

[CWPASADENA]

As a professional, I use mostly Snap-on hand tools in my shop. I purchased my first Snap-on tools more than 60 years ago.

When I am working away from the shop, I have a good set of mostly old Craftsmen tools I take with me. The older Craftsman tools work well and have a good "feel" to them. I prefer them to the newer Craftsman.

I also have some old S K Wayne which are very good tools and also some older Proto which are also good tools.

I do the best I can to stay away from Harbor Freight. Definitely their hydraulic jacks.

JMO

Chris W.