8BA in '33 pickup

[FlatheadTed]

Roters correct on the mounts, the later ones may lift the rear of the trans ,with floor interference ,I have seen about a 1" taken of the front of the crank to get them in on these later retrofits .

[PhoenixFear]

I'll plan on changing that transmission mount, but I'm still stumped on if it will be a good thing to move the trans and engine forward or not. I could try to remove that crank hole piece since I don't need it anyway and replace it with something else, this way the crank pulley can sit above the crossmember. Otherwise I could cut out a small section of the firewall and recess it back right where it hits the engine like what was originally attempted. I'd prefer to move it forward though. I have some photos of that area on a stock 33-34 and the trans is bolted to the forward holes, however the V-8 is a 21 stud so naturally it fits fine.

[PhoenixFear]

I tried moving the trans forward, no dice. I think the torque tube isn't letting me.

[Straightpipes]

I tried to tell you that.

[PhoenixFear]

Originally Posted by Straightpipes

I tried to tell you that.

Looking back I reread it and you're right on that. Might as well leave it where it is.

[Mike in AZ]

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might check out the new Rod and Custom....complete article about engine mounts in a '33 or '34....good luck....Mike

[PhoenixFear]

I'm trying to weigh options at this point. I'd have to go find the 33-34 trans mount. At that point, I'm still not sure if that will do anything. I still have the issue with moving the trans forward. I have no idea why the trans can't move forward. I apparently have the right torque tube, so it should bolt up to the front holes in the trans crossmember but it won't. I know the length of the torque tube dictates where the engine will go, but on a stock 33 V8 the torque tube is long enough to make the trans mount on the front.
Then I got to thinking maybe I should sell this engine and get an earlier one to fit better. That still doesn't explain the trans problem, and on top of that I have to fix or replace my front crossmember to fit and find or make 33-34 V8 engine mounts. My coworkers are trying to tell me to just sell my running gear and get something more modern since this headache is just getting worse. I'll go talk to my engine guy and see what he says.

[FlatheadTed]

You better post pictures of your rear springs etc before you do anything else ,so we can verify that you have the correct Diff ,something is stopping it from moving forward . What you are trying to do is relatively easy its been done plenty of times before .You should get the cross member from straight pipes and change yours out .Now lets have the spring photos .Ted

[1931 flamingo]

|PhoenixFear: Whar engine/trans combo was in it when you got the chassis. It also looks like your center x/member has been "butchered" a little also.
Paul in CT

[PhoenixFear]

I apparently have a '53 Ford engine, a '39 trans, a '33 V8 torque tube, and unknown rear end. The only pics I have of the rear end are these. I am not sure how to tell what rear I have. I just assumed the torque tube was non-adjustable so that's what was stopping me. I believe the torque tube bolts on with 6 bolts.

[rotorwrench]

The rear spring hangers and type of rear radius rods are the best identifiers of the rear axle assembly. The torque tubes changed in 35 for the later type rear axle. They had radius rods that attached to the axle housing tubes with flanges in 35 & 36 then they went to radius rods that attach at the brake backing plates. Torque tubes changed again in 37 for the later radius rods. You really need to know what you have there for anyone to be able to help figure it out.

To ID your stuff the Hot Rod Works site has some good information. http://www.hotrodworks.com/project_vehicles.asp.html

You can use a longer torque tube but you'll have to find out which ones are longer and you will also have to have a drive shaft that will match it. You may need to shorten one too and this has been done a lot for fitting the V8s in the shorter Model As and such. Dick Spadaro's drive shaft kit will fit anything you can come up with within reason.

I think you can make an 8BA work with the right parts but it is more of a challenge than the 59A or ealier engines are.

[FlatheadTed]

If look at all the 8Ba pictures posted here the motors are quit away back ,Changing the rear mount will not do it ,34 will be in the same position .

[PhoenixFear]

Here's some more pics of the rear end. I'll let you guys decipher what it is, I think it is '33-34 but can't be sure.


Here also is a couple pics of the radiator mounted, and where I believe I'll end up putting the crank pulley once the engine goes forward.

[rotorwrench]

It looks like a 33/34 rear axle to me too. Now whether it is 4-banger or V8 for the torque tube length, I don't know. The 33 to 39 standard were all 112" wheelbase and all could fit an 85 HP V8. The 33/34 had its own OEM engine mounts that had the lower water ports built in similar to all the 21 studs that had the cylinder head mounted water pumps with the exception of the 32. The 78 pumps can be made to work in there if you either find a 39 standard lower pulley sheave or cut the fan sheave from the 42 through 48 engines. You won't get the 8BA narrow belt sheave in there without either cutting the front fan drive sheave off or raising the engine up higher to move it foreward enough. In either case, using the mechanical fan would be a bear in there. The 39 standard generator fan would likely work but all that would require converting the front accessories to the early type ( 78 pumps, 2-bolt front cover, early type cam & gears, crab distributor, 39 standard type fan/generator set up) Changing the camshaft drive gears would put the thrust back the correct direction for the crab type cover. You can do all this with the 8BA including mods to use the center port heads of the 38 through 48 motors if need be but the original water pump locations may work with 8BA heads if the motor ends up in the right place. I've seen all this done in more than one instance. I wouldn't want to cut the firewall unless I had to but it is a possibility you may consider.

[PhoenixFear]

I'll be using an electric fan so that isn't an issue there. It would just add way too much headache for little gain. I'm trying to get away with not cutting the firewall. Someone already cut slits in the firewall and punched back the lower portion so the engine could fit but I want to avoid that. I'm debating if I can just unbolt the torque tube from the trans and possibly the driveshaft somehow, mount the trans where it originally went and go from there and deal with the torque tube issue later.
From what I can gather I'll need 8RT pumps, those Mercury u-shaped spacers, and '32-33 motor mounts. I'll also need a late 33 crossmember plate to replace my early '33 plate with the crank hole on it, otherwise I'll need to cut my early '33 plate but would rather not.

[John R]

[QUOTE=PhoenixFear;595360]Ok I measured the torque tube from the beginning of the bell to the flange. It comes out to 57.5 or so inches.]

The main problem is you have the wrong torque tube. (The rear end is definitely stock 33-34 so you're good there.) The length of the 33-34 V8 TT is 61 7/8" while the 4 cylinder TT is 60 3/16" or a difference of 1 11/16". The late 32 TT is only 53 3/8." Get the right torque tube and driveshaft and then diagnose your trans and crossmember issues. The right parts should not be too difficult to find. Hope this helps. John R.

[PhoenixFear]

Thanks for that info. I'll be going to the Big 3 swap meet tomorrow and maybe Saturday down here. I'll look for a torque tube.

[rotorwrench]

The 8RT F-1 pumps should work in there but they are a bit different than the 78 types pumps. To run the wide belts, you will need the F-1 type crankshaft pulley with the big sheave and the generator will also need the big sheave. You won't need any of the fan components with an electric type.

When you pull a rear axle, you pull it with torque tube & rear spring still attached. You just have to jack & support the rear frame well enough to allow it to be rolled back & out. You have to disconnect all the little stuff and unbolt the front retainer but it's not too bad a job as things go. With it out of there you should be able to measure and find out whether you have the 4-cylinder torque tube or not. My guess is that it is but that's just a guess. There is near 2-inches difference if I remember correctly.
This site should have the correct answer. http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/model46rearsupport.htm

Here is the thread on the HAMB. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ue+tube+length

Here is another good thread from the HAMB but this guy cheeted and used the stock 34 21 stud V8 engine as a replacement but it has some good info for you.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ckup&showall=1

[PhoenixFear]

I'll try to roll the rear axle back and swap torque tubes. Mine is 60", and a V8 tube is over 61".

[FlatheadTed]

The Toque Tube in my stock unmolested car is 60.5/8 including bell clam and the rear flange or 1539mm .
[QUOTE=John R;597083]

Originally Posted by PhoenixFear

Ok I measured the torque tube from the beginning of the bell to the flange. It comes out to 57.5 or so inches.]

The main problem is you have the wrong torque tube. (The rear end is definitely stock 33-34 so you're good there.) The length of the 33-34 V8 TT is 61 7/8" while the 4 cylinder TT is 60 3/16" or a difference of 1 11/16". The late 32 TT is only 53 3/8." Get the right torque tube and driveshaft and then diagnose your trans and crossmember issues. The right parts should not be too difficult to find. Hope this helps. John R.