Gasoline Ethanol BLends and the Classic Car

[Clem Clement]

http://ethanolrfa.org/ Released a special study entitled "Gasoline Ethanol BLends and the Classic Car", June 2011. The study pertains to E10 only. It is an interesting read. It seems to say that E10 is Ok. There is a supplement that talks about materials incompatable with E85.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Clem Clement ...............
I am ammused at the spin that they are putting on ethonal. It seems that it is the best thing to ever happen to the USA citizens.
MIKE

[Byron Warwick]

Note that American Ethanol is now a major sponsor of NASCAR. Byron.

[Dave Mc]

A few years back when Gas was about $1.50 per Gallon, the Talking Heads were experimenting with Ethanol(Corn) it was determined that it would work,BUT in order for it to be economically feasible Gas prices would have to be about $3.00 per Gallon, Guess what they got the money and we get ?
Higher Costs for,Transportation & Food & Animal Feed ,Etc,Etc,Etc. has affected every aspect of our lives. IMO

[Fe26]

We're so damn hungry for energy well use anything. We burned most of the oil, now we're using food, we're extracting gas from the ground and poisoning our water to get it, we'll go broke, hungry and thirsty before we give up our cars.

Any government that dares to attempt to regulate our profligate use by the use of alternative ad-mixtures and the taxation system is quite simply; greedy, manipulative, nationalistic, unpatriotic and idiotic. Oh! BTW none of this is 'our fault' we're just doing what we always did, just like our father did and his father before him, and his father before him.

And his father before him was well aquainted with a horse.
Yippee yi oh, it's off to town we go, galloping all the way...

Get used to it guys the future we all knew was coming, the one we ignored and pretended didn't exist, the one we were warned about but we said Nah! It'll never happen, well that future is here and now, and life as we know it is changing rapidly. This change is being driven by wasteful use, limited supply and market forces.

Even with the use of alternatives added to petroleum products the future requirements for oil are unsustainable, we are merely buying time before the oil runs out. We are 'The frog in the pot of boiling water'.

Now where's grandpa's old saddle?

[flatjack9]

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Ah yes, the sky is falling.

[ford38v8]

Fe26, it's greed that drives the whole world and always has. Nothing's changed but the number of poeple affected by each incident of greed. The Corn Producers siezed the opportunity to sell more Corn by distilling Ethanol from it. Is the net result better for the environment? Hell no, but Corporate Corn makes a bundle of money and Dupont sells tons of Chemical Fertilizer to grow more Corn, and Corn Syrup is now more expensive than Cane Sugar, so Canned Foods changed recipes again to use Sugar instead of Corn Syrup, so I guess it all evens out in the end.... or does it?

[Sal]

Ethanol destroys all your rubber parts in your fuel system. I've had to replace fuel pump diaphrams, carburator parts,fuel lines. It broke loose the sealing compound in my fuel tank and had to put my car on a trailer. I took my car to the early V-8 national meet last year, pulled up to a gas station to fill the tank only to have the gas spill on my foot and the ground that stuff is NO GOOD !

[Hitchhiker]

You guys do understand that ethanol is derived from the starches before it is used as feed corn for cattle right? It has absolutely no impact on Corn grown for Human consumption which accounts for 2-3% of the total corn production in the US. Also most Ethanol is moving away from Corn fermentation and using a new process called cellulosic ethanol which is made from unused inedible plant matter.

[46ford]

Well, it is mostly farms around here, and they are pretty happy these days.

[Ford46]

Can you spell b-o-o-n-d-o-g-g-l-e.......?

[makemc]

There was a report on news today that said we have enough oil in this country to last us 200 years, without importing a single barrel, do you think we will still be driving gas burning cars even a 100 yrs. from now..it is all about feeding the global market and being part of the one world govt. there is a worlwide shortage of corn because of ethanol

[ford38v8]

Hitchhiker, are we to understand that you are defending ethanol?

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Hitchhiker, are we to understand that you are defending ethanol?

I'm not a big fan of it, But it has it's place......just not in my old car. I'm really just tired of uninformed individuals who are either spouting 20 year old data or are just hopping on the bandwagon.

Do you guys know that most of the nations ethanol is being bought by big oil to replace MTBE's?

[ford38v8]

Yeah, and they told us MTBE was God's gift also.

[Fe26]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Ah yes, the sky is falling.

"Rebitt"

[Scott H]

I thought this article explained our oil reserves very well...seems to indicate we've got at least a few generations to figure this all out..
http://news.investors.com/article/60...ted-states.htm

The more the daily commuters move away from petroleum the longer petroleum will be around for the classic cars..

[Fe26]

Regarding all that oil you think you have, yep, let's say you do have it. But this isn't the easy to get at oil, this is the expensive to get at oil. This is the oil you can have if you are willing to pay the price.

And this price isn't just the dollar price, this price must also take into account the other hazards associated with drilling for hard to get at oil. We saw a hard lesson in the Gulf of Mexico not too long ago. When oil companies and their insurers sit down to work out costs to indemnify corporations to get that oil, the price will be more than many will be prepared to pay.

No government is going to let environmental damage continue to happen on the scale we saw, businesses destroyed or forced to close for months or years, risk to human health, and compensation reaching into the hundreds of millions of dollars. No government can afford to let that happen time after time. Yet that is what will continue to happen when oil is extracted in wells that are now measured in kilometers. That is kilometers off-shore and kilometers deep.

Any politician who says to you, yes you can have cheap oil, we got plenty here, is lying to you through his teeth. The days of cheap oil are coming to an end. Us Fordbarners in the rest of the world wish we paid the USA price at the pump, you're oil is so heavily subsidised by your government that you have become spoiled and accustomed to the cheap stuff. The rest of us pay prices that you in America would have nightmares about.

In this respect America is the problem not the solution. While oil is cheap for you, you waste it. Your car industry is still making inefficient engines, and if you think what you are experiencing now is disturbing, wait and see what's coming. It is said that the day a Federal goverment ends the subsidy on cheap fuel for Americans, that is the day the government will be thrown out of office. In light of this, there is no alternative other than to let market forces determine what your future will be.

One reason your government is acting so quickly to wean it's citizens off foreign oil is that foreign reserves are running out. If they wern't there wouldn't be any rush to delvelop alternatives. A report says that Saudi Arabian oil reserves have been estimated to be about half of what the Saudi's claim to have. So while foreign reserves last, America will take as much as they can get, (to hell with anyone else) your government will shield you from the full cost of that oil by continuing the subsidies, you will continue to burn and waste much of it, and still many of you will refuse to face reality.

Alternative fuels and ad-mixtures are here to stay, this is just the beginning of the industry.

Polictics is largely helpless in determining the price, because the citizens refuse to pay full price.

Free markets will determine what you get, and what the price will be.

Waste and inefficiency is way too high, and because fuel is subsidised so heavily there is no incentive to change.

Sadly, unless someone develops a solution to suit our old cars which can be fitted retrospectively, we will simply be sidelined, our cars relegated to museum pieces. Unless of course we are willing to pay the price for oil based fuel.

While our energy use is increasing and not decreasing the price will continue to rise. Couple that rise with the decline in the resourse itself and the pricing will rise exponentially.

"Rebitt"

PS. E10 is just a stop gap measure, soon it will be E20, then E30 etc, etc.

[Scott H]

Pretty sure this thread will get locked soon as it has become highly political. While its still active I would point out that the only money the US Gov has comes from its citizens and the taxes we pay. So if the price of gasoline is subsidized then it is being done by the citizens via the politicians...who I am sure are lining their own pockets in the process. Maybe if we stopped sending aid all around the world to be stolen by warlords and foreign politicians our taxes wouldn't be so high...and by 'aid' I mean humanitarian disaster relief as well as military protection. We should mind our own business a lot more than we do. Do we really need to have a military presence in 151 countries around the world?