The Ford Barn

1949f1 · 09-08-2016, 09:27 PM

I was driving my 1953 Mercury the other day to a little town maybe 10 miles from my place, I was almost there when the heat gauge pegged all the way to max I pulled off the side of the road, when I killed the motor it was smoking real bad took a while for the radiator to cool off. We let it cool then added water and drove it a mile or so down the road to my friends house, by the time we got there it was already blowing out water. We added more water after we let it cool again then cranked it with no radiator cap and got a pretty good geyser. I pulled the head off today found no cracks around the valve seats but there was water on the first 3 Pistons from front on the passenger side. The passenger side is the only side that got hot it got so hot it baked the paint off the head. The only crack I found was in between a head bolt whole and a hole for the water jacket? Time for a new block?

VeryTangled · 09-08-2016, 09:53 PM

Hi Everyone. 1949f1, Short answer, Yes. Motivated owners can have cracks repaired, but plan A is a good pressure tested block.

tubman · 09-08-2016, 09:55 PM

I think the crack you are describing is what is referred to as a "part number crack" (it's so common that they say that crack has it's own part number from Ford). They are not fatal. I'd check the head gasket and the head itself (for cracks). You may have gotten lucky.

1949f1 · 09-08-2016, 10:51 PM

Nothing there. How should I go about fixing it? What would it cause? I know that the head is warped now. Which I believe was causing the exhaust in the coolant.

1949f1 · 09-08-2016, 10:52 PM

I'll be able to get a picture tommorow. The car is still at my friends.

1949f1 · 09-08-2016, 10:54 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I'm honestly hoping to avoid a rebuild is that at all possible? I see now what caused it to overheat. The water jackets were full of this fine black powder.

Snouts out · 09-08-2016, 11:43 PM

Sounds like blown head gasket,put A new one on and you should be good to go!

wga · 09-09-2016, 12:22 AM

Get the head surfaced

scooder · 09-09-2016, 02:02 AM

Get the heads resurfaced and install with new gaskets and go through the correct tightening sequence. Good to go. A crack from stud to water hole is of no consequenc, most blocks have them, pay it no mind.
You just blew a head gasket from your description. And from your description, absolutely no need for another block.
Martin.

Bluebell · 09-09-2016, 03:07 AM

And you did a critically important thing.....
You let it cool before you put water in.
Many people cause major damage by adding cold water to a really hot engine.

chap52 · 09-09-2016, 07:31 AM

Sounds like you may have dodged a bullet. A head gasket is cheaper than a total rebuild. Autozone has them for about $19.
I would replace the gasket as advised and then run it, with caution and see if it overheats.
Don't for get to change the oil...lol

51504bat · 09-09-2016, 08:08 AM

Check for a stuck T-stat as well.

JSeery · 09-09-2016, 08:14 AM

Might what to consider a new head depending on how warped it is. Or remove the other head and have them both resurfaced. Would also be a good idea to clear/flush the block/radiator out as best you can. And, as already stated, check the thermostats to be sure they are working properly.

Seth Swoboda · 09-09-2016, 08:46 AM

It's also important to periodically check the torque on your heads. Especially if you run aluminum heads, a re-torque one or twice a year is preventive maintenance.

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 09:34 AM

im running stock 8CM cast iron heads. Im hoping you are right i just dont see any where else that it cracked. im waiting on napa to get a head gasket, and as soon as I get out of school today will pull a head off a spare block. Any suggestions as to how to keep the spare from rusting? i guess i could drive with only one head

P.S. Im sory about my inexperience with this stuff im 18 and this is also my first car.

jagnweiner · 09-09-2016, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

P.S. Im sory about my inexperience with this stuff im 18 and this is also my first car.

Awesome!

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 09:44 AM

yes so any help/advice is aprreciated.

JSeery · 09-09-2016, 09:50 AM

You could have the block pressure tested, but it would be cheaper and easier to just try another head. Be sure the new head you use is square and flat. Also make sure the matting surface is as clean and spotless and flat as you can get it. The block surface needs to be clean and flat as well.

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 09:53 AM

I'm definitely not wanting to tear it down to have it pressure tested if it comes to that i guess it'll have to be moth balled.

Seth Swoboda · 09-09-2016, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSeery

You could have the block pressure tested, but it would be cheaper and easier to just try another head. Be sure the new head you use is square and flat. Also make sure the matting surface is as clean and spotless and flat as you can get it. The block surface needs to be clean and flat as well.

Heed JSeery's advise here. I bought my first early Ford when I was 18. It is the Model A Victoria you see in my avatar. I restored that car myself with some technical help from a local man. I'm 36 now and there are 5 early Ford cars now in my garage. We're all glad to see you here and interested in these vehicles. Post some photos if you can.

tubman · 09-09-2016, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

I'm definitely not wanting to tear it down to have it pressure tested if it comes to that i guess it'll have to be moth balled.

I have a device that will allow you to pressure test the system while the engine is in the car (with the heads on). PM me if you-re interested.

Bob C · 09-09-2016, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

im running stock 8CM cast iron heads. Im hoping you are right i just dont see any where else that it cracked. im waiting on napa to get a head gasket, and as soon as I get out of school today will pull a head off a spare block. Any suggestions as to how to keep the spare from rusting? i guess i could drive with only one head

P.S. Im sory about my inexperience with this stuff im 18 and this is also my first car.

You could do that----watch the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkHZyjiT_wk

Bob

Ol' Ron · 09-09-2016, 11:22 AM

AS they say, that crack has a part number, I never bother to doanything to fix it. I do however use a steam pipe compound on the threads. You can get a tube of it at a plumbing supply house. Next I only torque to #50 ft/lbs and do this for 3 heat cycles. I've been doing this for the past 30 or 40 years, so it works. Now there maybe a better way, but I don't know it.

JSeery · 09-09-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

AS they say, that crack has a part number, I never bother to doanything to fix it. I do however use a steam pipe compound on the threads. You can get a tube of it at a plumbing supply house. Next I only torque to #50 ft/lbs and do this for 3 heat cycles. I've been doing this for the past 30 or 40 years, so it works. Now there maybe a better way, but I don't know it.

Might add a block sealer too!

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 11:44 AM

Thank yall for the help! The only thing that is bothering me is the fact that i dont really see where the head gasket blew. Ill let yall know how everything goes.

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 03:27 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

What kind of benefits would I get with ford heads? If I'm mistaken won't that increase compression?

VeryTangled · 09-09-2016, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

The water jackets were full of this fine black powder.

Hi Everyone, 1941f1, I have a car that had REALLY OLD radiator hoses on it. They started to break-down from the inside and shed all this black crap into the system.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198594

Bruce Lancaster · 09-09-2016, 03:54 PM

Maybe someone here lives near you and has the simple Speedway pressure test...no real teardown needed beyond taking off the head and then the pump on that side. Bolt on the 2 plates covering head and pump surface, add air, see if it holds. If so, thoroughly check out head and go get a gasket.
The problem/need for pressure is that the complex porting design can allow a crack deep within, like an exhaust passage, where it is totally beyond vision.
I agree that this is likely gasket problem, but a pressure test on the affected side would be nice.

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 04:06 PM

I've replaced the hoses. But could be from sometime before me. The dern gaskets won't be in till Tuesday.

flatford39 · 09-09-2016, 04:19 PM

Keep in mind that crack may have been there even before you overheated. Pay it know mind and proceed with the new head gasket and oil change.

Welcome to the club.

1949f1 · 09-09-2016, 05:02 PM

I'm about to do a reverse pressure test. I thought of, I'm going to pressurize the radiator with a new head on and reuse the old gasket.

tubman · 09-09-2016, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

I'm about to do a reverse pressure test. I thought of, I'm going to pressurize the radiator with a new head on and reuse the old gasket.

I really think you should wait until Tuesday when you have new gaskets.

Also, read my reply to your PM.

chap52 · 09-10-2016, 07:22 AM

Wait on the new gasket. Patience is something you will learn along the way. A lot of us have 40+ years playing with these oldies and are still learning the lesson of patience. It's easier to do it right than do it wrong twice..

rotorwrench · 09-10-2016, 07:30 AM

The cracks between cylinders are not uncommon. The siamese exhaust ports run under those so a lot of heat can build up in those areas. As long as the cracks don't extend down through and into the exhaust ports, they won't be a problem. The only way to find out is to pressure test the block. Heads can crack or develop pin holes where the core wire goes through them in certain places. The heads can also be pressure tested. If a person has access to a surface plate or a well made level straight edge, the heads can be checked for warpage easily. Blown or leaky head gaskets are also not uncommon but are not easy to diagnose. On a flathead, it's easier to replace them as a diagnosis test. If it still overheats, then a person has to go through all the tests to find out where the problem is.

The OEM coolant temperature indicating system has two senders but only one actually registers the gauge indication (on the passenger side). The driver side sender is just a temperature sensitive switch that makes the indicator go full swing to "H" when it gets to the set temperature of the bi-metalic switch. This isn't the worlds best system but it seemed to be working OK in this case.

JWL · 09-10-2016, 12:07 PM

Check to be certain nothing is impeding the flow of water on that bank of cylinders. Also be sure the water pump has not lost the impellor. Remove the thermostat for a maximum water flow experiment.

40 Deluxe · 09-10-2016, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1949f1

What kind of benefits would I get with ford heads? If I'm mistaken won't that increase compression?

Yes, EAB heads or 8BA milled .040" or .050" will raise compression, which is what you want for better performance and mileage.

Vonn Ditch · 09-12-2016, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

Maybe someone here lives near you and has the simple Speedway pressure test...no real teardown needed beyond taking off the head and then the pump on that side. Bolt on the 2 plates covering head and pump surface, add air, see if it holds. If so, thoroughly check out head and go get a gasket.
The problem/need for pressure is that the complex porting design can allow a crack deep within, like an exhaust passage, where it is totally beyond vision.
I agree that this is likely gasket problem, but a pressure test on the affected side would be nice.

Do this.....

Byron Warwick · 09-12-2016, 09:35 AM

My leaks started after a short run and the rad solution was foamy and I went through lot of water. My Mechanic, suggested that before I remove the heads, I try a bottle of "IronTite". Well it seems to have worked, as I made a 100 mile trip on Sunday, with no over heating and the fluid level is still an inch above the core. Twenty Dollars well spent, even if it is a temporary fix. Byron.

1949f1 · 09-27-2016, 10:16 PM

So just wanted to give y'all an update. Put the head on, and drove the car home. In the 10 miles I drove it the heat gauge started going over 3 quarters. Of course I stopped and let it cool off. I'm planning on pulling the motor and tranny out. I'm putting new gaskets in the motor and repainting everything. How complicated is it to pull them both together?

09-08-2016, 09:27 PM	#1
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Cracked block I was driving my 1953 Mercury the other day to a little town maybe 10 miles from my place, I was almost there when the heat gauge pegged all the way to max I pulled off the side of the road, when I killed the motor it was smoking real bad took a while for the radiator to cool off. We let it cool then added water and drove it a mile or so down the road to my friends house, by the time we got there it was already blowing out water. We added more water after we let it cool again then cranked it with no radiator cap and got a pretty good geyser. I pulled the head off today found no cracks around the valve seats but there was water on the first 3 Pistons from front on the passenger side. The passenger side is the only side that got hot it got so hot it baked the paint off the head. The only crack I found was in between a head bolt whole and a hole for the water jacket? Time for a new block?

09-08-2016, 09:53 PM	#2
VeryTangled Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: (Not far enough...) Outside of DC Posts: 3,387	Re: Cracked block Hi Everyone. 1949f1, Short answer, Yes. Motivated owners can have cracks repaired, but plan A is a good pressure tested block. __________________ -Jeff H Have you thought about supporting the Early Ford V-8 Foundation Museum?

09-08-2016, 09:55 PM	#3
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,303	Re: Cracked block I think the crack you are describing is what is referred to as a "part number crack" (it's so common that they say that crack has it's own part number from Ford). They are not fatal. I'd check the head gasket and the head itself (for cracks). You may have gotten lucky.

09-08-2016, 10:51 PM	#4
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block Nothing there. How should I go about fixing it? What would it cause? I know that the head is warped now. Which I believe was causing the exhaust in the coolant.

09-08-2016, 10:54 PM	#6
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'm honestly hoping to avoid a rebuild is that at all possible? I see now what caused it to overheat. The water jackets were full of this fine black powder.

09-08-2016, 10:52 PM	#5
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block I'll be able to get a picture tommorow. The car is still at my friends.

09-08-2016, 11:43 PM	#7
Snouts out Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Covedale,oh Posts: 226	Re: Cracked block Sounds like blown head gasket,put A new one on and you should be good to go!

09-09-2016, 12:22 AM	#8
wga Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 897	Re: Cracked block Get the head surfaced __________________ Henry Ford designed the flathead without the aid of a computer.

09-09-2016, 02:02 AM	#9
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Cracked block Get the heads resurfaced and install with new gaskets and go through the correct tightening sequence. Good to go. A crack from stud to water hole is of no consequenc, most blocks have them, pay it no mind. You just blew a head gasket from your description. And from your description, absolutely no need for another block. Martin.

09-09-2016, 03:07 AM	#10
Bluebell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 726	Re: Cracked block And you did a critically important thing..... You let it cool before you put water in. Many people cause major damage by adding cold water to a really hot engine.

09-09-2016, 07:31 AM	#11
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Cracked block Sounds like you may have dodged a bullet. A head gasket is cheaper than a total rebuild. Autozone has them for about $19. I would replace the gasket as advised and then run it, with caution and see if it overheats. Don't for get to change the oil...lol

09-09-2016, 08:08 AM	#12
51504bat Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: SoCal-Redlands Posts: 3,009	Re: Cracked block Check for a stuck T-stat as well. __________________ Making the simple complicated for over 30 years.

09-09-2016, 08:14 AM	#13
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cracked block Might what to consider a new head depending on how warped it is. Or remove the other head and have them both resurfaced. Would also be a good idea to clear/flush the block/radiator out as best you can. And, as already stated, check the thermostats to be sure they are working properly.

09-09-2016, 08:46 AM	#14
Seth Swoboda Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern Illinois Posts: 3,785	Re: Cracked block It's also important to periodically check the torque on your heads. Especially if you run aluminum heads, a re-torque one or twice a year is preventive maintenance.

09-09-2016, 09:34 AM	#15
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block im running stock 8CM cast iron heads. Im hoping you are right i just dont see any where else that it cracked. im waiting on napa to get a head gasket, and as soon as I get out of school today will pull a head off a spare block. Any suggestions as to how to keep the spare from rusting? i guess i could drive with only one head P.S. Im sory about my inexperience with this stuff im 18 and this is also my first car. Last edited by 1949f1; 09-09-2016 at 09:41 AM.

09-09-2016, 09:44 AM	#17
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block yes so any help/advice is aprreciated.

09-09-2016, 09:50 AM	#18
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Cracked block You could have the block pressure tested, but it would be cheaper and easier to just try another head. Be sure the new head you use is square and flat. Also make sure the matting surface is as clean and spotless and flat as you can get it. The block surface needs to be clean and flat as well.

09-09-2016, 09:53 AM	#19
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block I'm definitely not wanting to tear it down to have it pressure tested if it comes to that i guess it'll have to be moth balled.

09-09-2016, 11:22 AM	#23
Ol' Ron Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chester Vt Posts: 8,855	Re: Cracked block AS they say, that crack has a part number, I never bother to doanything to fix it. I do however use a steam pipe compound on the threads. You can get a tube of it at a plumbing supply house. Next I only torque to #50 ft/lbs and do this for 3 heat cycles. I've been doing this for the past 30 or 40 years, so it works. Now there maybe a better way, but I don't know it.

09-09-2016, 11:44 AM	#25
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block Thank yall for the help! The only thing that is bothering me is the fact that i dont really see where the head gasket blew. Ill let yall know how everything goes.

09-09-2016, 03:27 PM	#26
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) What kind of benefits would I get with ford heads? If I'm mistaken won't that increase compression?

09-09-2016, 03:54 PM	#28
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Cracked block Maybe someone here lives near you and has the simple Speedway pressure test...no real teardown needed beyond taking off the head and then the pump on that side. Bolt on the 2 plates covering head and pump surface, add air, see if it holds. If so, thoroughly check out head and go get a gasket. The problem/need for pressure is that the complex porting design can allow a crack deep within, like an exhaust passage, where it is totally beyond vision. I agree that this is likely gasket problem, but a pressure test on the affected side would be nice.

09-09-2016, 04:06 PM	#29
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block I've replaced the hoses. But could be from sometime before me. The dern gaskets won't be in till Tuesday.

09-09-2016, 04:19 PM	#30
flatford39 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 499	Re: Cracked block Keep in mind that crack may have been there even before you overheated. Pay it know mind and proceed with the new head gasket and oil change. Welcome to the club.

09-09-2016, 05:02 PM	#31
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block I'm about to do a reverse pressure test. I thought of, I'm going to pressurize the radiator with a new head on and reuse the old gasket.

09-10-2016, 07:22 AM	#33
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Cracked block Wait on the new gasket. Patience is something you will learn along the way. A lot of us have 40+ years playing with these oldies and are still learning the lesson of patience. It's easier to do it right than do it wrong twice..

09-10-2016, 07:30 AM	#34
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: Cracked block The cracks between cylinders are not uncommon. The siamese exhaust ports run under those so a lot of heat can build up in those areas. As long as the cracks don't extend down through and into the exhaust ports, they won't be a problem. The only way to find out is to pressure test the block. Heads can crack or develop pin holes where the core wire goes through them in certain places. The heads can also be pressure tested. If a person has access to a surface plate or a well made level straight edge, the heads can be checked for warpage easily. Blown or leaky head gaskets are also not uncommon but are not easy to diagnose. On a flathead, it's easier to replace them as a diagnosis test. If it still overheats, then a person has to go through all the tests to find out where the problem is. The OEM coolant temperature indicating system has two senders but only one actually registers the gauge indication (on the passenger side). The driver side sender is just a temperature sensitive switch that makes the indicator go full swing to "H" when it gets to the set temperature of the bi-metalic switch. This isn't the worlds best system but it seemed to be working OK in this case.

09-10-2016, 12:07 PM	#35
JWL Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia Posts: 2,204	Re: Cracked block Check to be certain nothing is impeding the flow of water on that bank of cylinders. Also be sure the water pump has not lost the impellor. Remove the thermostat for a maximum water flow experiment.

09-12-2016, 09:35 AM	#38
Byron Warwick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Corunna, Ontario, Canada Posts: 309	Re: Cracked block My leaks started after a short run and the rad solution was foamy and I went through lot of water. My Mechanic, suggested that before I remove the heads, I try a bottle of "IronTite". Well it seems to have worked, as I made a 100 mile trip on Sunday, with no over heating and the fluid level is still an inch above the core. Twenty Dollars well spent, even if it is a temporary fix. Byron. __________________ IT'S NOT YOUR AGE, IT'S YOUR ATTITUDE !

09-27-2016, 10:16 PM	#39
1949f1 Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Winona, Mississippi Posts: 93	Re: Cracked block So just wanted to give y'all an update. Put the head on, and drove the car home. In the 10 miles I drove it the heat gauge started going over 3 quarters. Of course I stopped and let it cool off. I'm planning on pulling the motor and tranny out. I'm putting new gaskets in the motor and repainting everything. How complicated is it to pull them both together?