Tri-power Linkage - SBF

[jefeingold]

I have an August 1964 Buddy Bar/Ford Performance manifold with the correct Holley 2300 two-barrel List 2867 and 2868 carbs and the proper linkages.

The problem is that if I get the carbs all opening at WOT in synch, the secondary carbs begin to open at about 20% throttle in the primary. If I adjust the linkage to get the secondaries opening at the desired 40-50% of primary throttle, the secondaries don't reach WOT. I can't find a sweet spot where the secondaries open at 40-50% primary, and still all reach WOT at the same time. It's making me crazy.

Any suggestions?

[KULTULZ]

... you know I got a little misty seeing that setup ...

Sure brings back memories ...

Anywho, this is the GURU concerning TRI-POWER -

Joe Bunetic
65 Concord Drive
Fair View Heights, Illinois 62206
618 397-3580

My understanding is that he has no website and can only be contacted by phone usually around 1800 HRS CST.

Now I have a suggestion for diagnosis but would rather keep it in my knickers until you can hopefully contact him.

Now the catch here is that you are required to get back here on this thread with what you found out.

[scicala]

The only way to make the primary carb open further, before the secondary carbs start to open, and all reach WOT at the same time, is to lengthen the centers
on the primary throttle lever, and or shorten the centers on the secondary carbs. It the carbs are original and the levers haven't been changed, then that must be the way it was originally designed to work.

Sal

[jefeingold]

Yeah, Sal, I thought of that. The throttle arms on the primary/secondaries are at a perfect 1:2 ratio, with the shorter arms being the secondaries. This is factory, but I still can't believe they designed this so the secondaries begin to open at 20% primary throttle.

As KULTULZ suggested, I'll discuss this with Joe. In the meantime, I'll experiment to see if I can devise an elegant way (i.e., as Carroll would have done) to extend the length of the primary throttle arm and see whether that solves the problem.

[KULTULZ]

The throttle arms on the primary/secondaries are at a perfect 1:2 ratio, with the shorter arms being the secondaries. This is factory, but I still can't believe they designed this so the secondaries begin to open at 20% primary throttle.

At that period of time, it was meant to be that way for performance. They were sold as kits from FOMOCO. Of course now it is a little too aggressive, especially at $4 plus per gallon. As far as I know, there were no service parts released. It was a complete kit. Whether FE OEM adj rods can be made to work I don't know.

I've read where he may be difficult to contact. Let us know how it goes and if not will try another route.

In the meantime, I will consult my cobweb library. Trouble is, he will know the answer straight off.

[scicala]

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If you don't change the centers and you want the primary carb to open furhter before getting into the secondaries, maybe you can live with the secondary carbs opening most of the way, instead of 100 %.

Sal

[jefeingold]

Thanks Sal and KULTULZ. I was considering taking the route of partial throttle on the secondaries to get more throttle on the primary. The (not so) funny thing about that is when I adjust to those specs, the primary goes to WOT while the secondaries open to, say, 70%. I fear that under pedal-to-the-metal conditions, center cylinders would run rich and the front and rear cylinders would go lean.

I've spoken to Joe Bunetic on other matters, so he's there. I just don't want to bug him on a Sunday night, so I'll call him next week.

By the way, all my linkage adjustments are happening on the bench, which is a heck of a lot easier to do than on the car. Tomorrow or Tuesday I'll drop (haha) the kit on the car and see what happens. I didn't mention it, but it's a 289 in a '63 Falcon Futura.

[KULTULZ]

63 1/2 FUTURA (no SPRINT TRIM PACKAGE?)

Much nicer looking car than a 63.

GO HERE - https://www.hptrends.com/index.htm

They have a WSM that says has the adjustment(s) procedure.

[5851a]

JMO and you are not going to like, just put it on the car and drive it. Sound is part of the experience. you are not going to go any faster one way or another. Part of it is eye candy. It sure looks good to me.

[jefeingold]

63 1/2 FUTURA (no SPRINT TRIM PACKAGE?)
- No Sprint bling for me- it's a Futura, not a Sprint, and I'm honest about what I drive, so I'm not gonna make a repro Sprint (altho a previous owner did add a Sprint insignia on the C pillar, and you gotta remove the headliner to change it out...). I am, however, staying period speed equipt, thus the Buddy Bar/Ford carb kit. I also scored a set of gen-you-wine Shelby Cragar 5-spoke mags, not the one-piece repros.

GO HERE - https://www.hptrends.com/index.htm
- Yeah, I finally bit the bullet and downloaded it. Let's see if helps things. I've been also using Mike Brattland's "Tri-Power Bulletin."

I'll read the hptrends paper, tweak things a bit, bolt on the kit, and see what happens. Can't wait!

[scicala]

From my experience I don't think it will cause a lean condition on the front and rear cylinders if the secondary carbs are not 100% opened.

Sal

[KULTULZ]

I also scored a set of gen-you-wine Shelby Cragar 5-spoke mags, not the one-piece repros.

With the CS CENTER CAPS?

You are serious. Power to you!

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by scicala

If you don't change the centers and you want the primary carb to open furhter before getting into the secondaries, maybe you can live with the secondary carbs opening most of the way, instead of 100 %.

Sal

Originally Posted by 5851a

JMO and you are not going to like, just put it on the car and drive it. Sound is part of the experience. you are not going to go any faster one way or another. Part of it is eye candy. It sure looks good to me.

Now where is the fun in that? It's like being married to a beauty queen and find out she's frigid.

I had a 67 GT-500 8V that when the secondary's opened sounded like a shotgun going off ...

[5851a]

I meant on the car with the secondaries starting to open at 20%.

[jefeingold]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

With the CS CENTER CAPS?

You are serious. Power to you!

Dig it - see photo.

By the way, I downloaded the 3Deuces booklet from HPTrends. Wow, that is a super detailed and useful piece of work - I need to go back and do some steps he recommends before trying to synch my deucing#&$* carbs! Just a note to all you hundreds of people with tri-power sets: 3Deuces focuses on the FE/390-406 tri-power kit, not the SBF/260-289 item. But the info is virtually applicable in its entirety.

[KULTULZ]

- ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL -

Once upon a time, in a GALAXIE far, far away...

I had a 64 SPRINT.

Let us know what secret(s) you find ...

[miker98038]

Just for my general knowledge (which I might remember), are those set up to idle on all 3?
Power valves on all 3, just the center, or none? Do they make a unisyn, or similar, or an adapter to fit those carbs? All my experience is 94’s, SU’s or Weber’s. I know Drylakesracer over on yblocksforever has an adapter to use the unisyn on his WCFB dual quads, but that’s the end of my knowledge.

[KULTULZ]

And I would like to know ... ...

On the air horn(s), it will have the LIST NO.

Is there any FORD ID STAMPING there?

[KULTULZ]

While perusing in my basement archives, affectionately known as COBWEB CORNER - (right next to MY SEX LIFE is OVER SECTION) yesterday, I came across forgotten TRI-POWER INFO. I have his booklet (c. 2003) and it explains adjustments on the system(s). There are also two sets of actuating rods which may explain quick and slow outer carb opening.

This info is included in this thread for any future searches on the subject,

- https://www.ford6vcarburetion.com/