Brakes

[hope]

I'm somewhat reluctant to start this post, as i've been slapped down here before for not using the proper grammar. But i'm desperate about this brake situation. Take into consideration that i'm 83 (and on the decline) with mediocre education.


But i still do my own thing, relying on my own ability to get under cars and fix whatever i can my own way.


Enough ranting, my problem is i cannot get a "Brake Pedal".


I have gone to the search section, but there is so much different do's and don't that i'm confused, and tried and did some of the advise.


Here's a some explanation, i did the brake system many years ago and the car "sat" for that many years, while trying to adjust the brakes recently i curiously peeled back the rubber cup on the wheel cylinder and got brake fluid, so i took the wheel cylinder apart and found rust, and checking the other cylinders found they needed attention too.


Bought two new front wheel cylinders, honed and put new kit in rear cyl..(minimum rust) and did same to master cylinder (new kit).


Flushed system with denature alcohol.



Bench bleed master cylinder twice, (with Dot#5)



Bleed brakes, bleed brakes, again, again, per proper procedure.


I'm hoping someone had similar situation, with a quick fix. HA....


Hope

[Andy]

It is really hard to use the Dot 5 fluid. It is exteamly susceptible to retain air bubbles. You can't just pore the fluid in the MC. Everything must be done slow. I would flush it out and go to Dot 3 or 4. The stuff also is extreamly susceptible to leaking.
The early Ford 1/4" lines are also a problem. I would change to 3/16" The larger lines have reduced flow velocity when bleeding so it is harder to get the air out.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Andy

It is really hard to use the Dot 5 fluid. It is exteamly susceptible to retain air bubbles. You can't just pore the fluid in the MC. Everything must be done slow. I would flush it out and go to Dot 3 or 4. The stuff also is extreamly susceptible to leaking.
The early Ford 1/4" lines are also a problem. I would change to 3/16" The larger lines have reduced flow velocity when bleeding so it is harder to get the air out.

I would leave the 1/4 lines. Finding and installing all of the compatible fittings will make you crazy.

Charlie Stephens

[19Fordy]

There was a post awhile back about defective wheel cylinders being manufactured and sold. Something about the bleeder screw hole not being drilled in the correct location. Could that be the problem? Is your master cylinder in good operable condition.

I have used DOT5 in my stock 1940 Ford brake system for the past 30 years with no problems. Lines are stock 1/4 in. Wish I lived closer so I could help you. Your problem is fixable using DOT 5.

Hope someone here can help you. Maybe there's another Ford barner near you.

[JSeery]

Is there a reason you went to DOT 5? It is more difficult to deal with. Another possibility is some new off-shore wheel cylinders have a problem with the holes being drilled incorrectly.

[flatford8]

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Have you adjusted the brakes, having a slight drag. I didn’t see in your post that you did.
Mark

[Bill S]

Did you change the flex lines? I used a vacuum bleeder. Took some time to bleed them. Had to be done several times. The brake lines I flushed with acetone 1st than alcohol.

[hope]

Half of my brake lines system is stainless, so i'm keeping the 1/4 lines.


Went to Dot#5 because of information i gathered, was that Dot#5 will not store moisture. But then again i got to thinking, at my age who gives a.......BUT my oldest son will get the car after i'm pushing daisies so no doubt it will be sitting some, i don't want him to have problems with moisture
in the brake system. (all he knows is how to start a car,)


I have tried quick bleeders, and also a brake bleeder system, didn't seem to work.
I'm definitely doing something wrong.


I also had the car on the stands pointing somewhat nose down angle, so now its level.


My next step, is i'm going to try again but this time with someone in the seat pushing on the pedal.


I've done many brake bleeding, over the years by myself when my kids became of age and had to ave a car, and i sure as heck could not buy them a new car.


What's got me frustrated, is i've had this car over 50 years, and when time permitted worked on it to rebuild just about everything including blasting to bare metal, and painting it Dark Cherry Pearl, front end, rear end transmission,dash, 12volts wiring done just about one wire at a time,BUT had the engine done by "WALT DUPONT" in Maine and runs like a charm.


And i'm at the point of putting it on the road to enjoy driving it, but i'm stuck with this brake problem, i get so upset sometimes about this kind of situation i just leave it alone for a while.



I'm going to try again, but at 83 i work VERY SLOW.


Hope


By the wayTHANKS all of you for the reply.

[hope]

To flatheadford.


Yes

[FlatheadTed]

Hope don't worry about the edyoumacachon join the club .sorry to here you got slapped down ,
Just something to try Get a rag and stuff it in the top of the master cylinder and use a air gun on it to blow the fluid through with a single bleeder open at a time just short bursts of air ,it sounds like trapped air ,if that doesn't work ,it could be swollen hoses,or the MC not assembled correctly ,

[hope]

To Bill S


Brake lines are new.

[hope]

To FlatheadTed


Your reply made me laugh, because i do the same thing when i drain the water in the pool, only i don't use a rag, but a big cork with a hole in the middle

[KiWinUS]

Hope please make sure your master cylinder pushrod is adjusted correctly & that the piston is returning all the way to rest position.
We will brakes up & running.
Cheers
Tony

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Hope please make sure your master cylinder pushrod is adjusted correctly & that the piston is returning all the way to rest position.
We will brakes up & running.
Cheers
Tony

Just might add: This means there must be some free play in the pedal; it should move 1/16"-1/8" before the master cylinder piston starts to move. Otherwise it will never pump up.

[hope]

Yes Thank You, i'm aware of the free play, i will make sure i remember to do that when i get "ROUND-TO-IT."


Right now i'm laying back for a bit, building up enough courage to do that again. Besides to weather is a killer around here for this KID.

[JSeery]

Always worth the effort I guess if you are really set on the DOT 5. If it was me (and it is on my vehicles ) I would go back to DOT 3/4 and change it out every couple of years.

[aussie merc]

sounds like youve done it all correct only thing is did you get the vehicle as high as practicable and level then let the axles hang [biggest trouble with under floor masters is there is no fall between the master and the wheels and this makes them a rite cow to bleed. Last resort try reverse bleeding [from the wheels back to the master ] but you need a pressure bleeder to do this P.S. did you use a plastic tube into a jar of brake fluid at the wheels this actually works like a one way valve and stops you sucking any air back into the wheel keep in touch want to see how you get on

[hope]

All the way from Australia, cant believe this modern way of living.


No i have not done the tube in the jar thing, but will do on my next try.

[35fordtn]

Be weary some of the Drake shoes are too thick causing the cup to push in too far into the wheel cylinder. It causes a very very slight leak that takes a while to appear and causes a weak pedal. You may not have the above mentioned shoes but thought I’d mention it on here

[hope]

JSeery


The one reason i'm sticking with Dot#5 for now, is i "dread" having to flush the whole system again and start with Dot#3. But if i have too much trouble i will do. It will take "time" for me to decide.
This OLD horse is beat. Ha.Ha.

[35fordtn]

Personally I run dot 5 and while you won’t have as firm of a pedal I prefer it as it won’t make the paint peel on painted areas. I also find Dot 5 better for cars that sit as it doesn’t absorb moisture like dot 3. Just my opinion which seems to differ from most.

[hope]

35fordtn
Shoes are from wayyyy back when i bought the car some 50 years ago,they are new and i had to shave the top and bottom to try to adjust the brakes, still does not seem right.

[Tinker]

There has been less then good "new" master cylinders. Not uncommon. No matter your spellin' or other stuffish. Walt's engine and work is a rock, not that would effect your brakes haha ....ever.


If you have fluid leaking from the front the of master. Start there maybe. Wheel cylinders next. Maybe we are down to old stock and hone.

[hope]

Sure do miss not hearing from Walt, i wonder how he's doing, we are the same age with similar ailments.

[uncle max]

Leo - From what I remember, meeting you at Bonneville umpteen years ago, your passion and determination should/will see you through this little brake situation!

[hope]

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Uncle max!
Great to hear from you.
What a memory, i thought for sure you would, not remember me from all the people you have to deal with.
I will not forget how you helped me with my carburators, and they are perfect only a little discoloration from sitting.
Your words of encouragement will help, but i will not get back to the problem until the weather is better around here, heat and humidity's got me out for the count.

[philipswanson]

Finding correct tubing is not a problem. Classic Tube makes great kits and they are not expensive.

https://classictube.com/

[Tinker]

I think you are there, just maybe some cranks on stuff. Great project!!!

[fortyfords]

Its a little work but try and isolate front and rear, right and left side one at a time and start with the master cyl. As you get a good pedal with the M/C isolated, then add one wheel at a time. You will have to come up with a way to plug the lines; have any machinist buddies?

[hope]

fortyfords



Thanks, hope i don't have to go that way.

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by hope

...but i will not get back to the problem until the weather is better around here, heat and humidity's got me out for the count.

hope, you are an inspiration to my young ass (born 1960). My technique is to get to work as soon as there is enough light to get on it. Right now it's about 5:45 am. By about 11am it's nasty enough to put me into the house. Tomorrow it will be above 95 degrees in the afternoon. I'm lucky to have access to an air conditioned shop, lucky me! Anything in the driveway is torture for a major part of the day.

[hook00pad]

Please make sure your return spring is returning the pedal to the top of it's travel when bleeding. If it doesn't that makes it nearly impossible to bleed off air through the master cyl.

Al

[hope]

Thank You.

[FlatheadTed]

Hi Hope ,(this may not be your problem but ) My suggestion to use a air gun comes from working on a car with the MC low in the floor much like 39 Ford ,I just could not get a pedal It felt like trapped air we had bench bleed it so I knew it worked ok ,in my absence the owner had the MC re kitted after replacing it we experienced the same problem so out of frustration put the 40 1lb air into it and bingo got a full pedal .You would think this would mix air with it but it doesn't.

[hope]

O.K. Thanks.
Weather is still awful around here, so it will be sometime before i can convince this old body to cooperate.

[hope]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Hi Hope ,(this may not be your problem but ) My suggestion to use a air gun comes from working on a car with the MC low in the floor much like 39 Ford ,I just could not get a pedal It felt like trapped air we had bench bleed it so I knew it worked ok ,in my absence the owner had the MC re kitted after replacing it we experienced the same problem so out of frustration put the 40 1lb air into it and bingo got a full pedal .You would think this would mix air with it but it doesn't.

Could you elaborate a little more on put the 40 1lb air into it).


How to: put air into the master cyl? and how much pressure?

[Terry,OH]

Adjust the brake shoes with a drag first then bleed. When you rebuilt the 1940 Ford master cylinder the first item to insert is the rubber appearing washer then the check valve.

Appears like you know what your doing! Good Luck!

[FlatheadTed]

Loosen of the stop light switch at the MC, Set your air gauge at 40 then with a bunched up rag in the oil fill hole and the MC 3/4 full place the gun in the centre of the rag and give it a few bursts of air ,retighten the stop light switch, check the pedal if no or a low pedal go to the nearest /(left sitting in the car) wheel and loosen of the bleeder and repeat , , the air that's got in the system when you had the pipes of you need to chase that out at the shortest possible rout ,do all four wheels if you don't get a result .At the end you could revert back to normal bleeding. We bled ours at the joint and got a pedal straight of so that's all we did ,Ted

[hope]

Thanks a bunch for the comeback.

[FlatheadTed]

Edited previous post

[big job]

Sometimes I have had luck pumping it up and put a stick on the pedal overnight. You
will get it done even without a pressure bleeder. Think you have problems, try brakes
with ABS and all that foolishness nightmare, or trucks with a booster. You have a simple system 'that can be worked on' now we are getting the 10yr old cars, pickups, with
rotted brake lines in the shop, just about all are miserable jobs. People think disk brakes rule? thats why we have barrels of warped rotors and toasted pads brake lines for junk. (my rant) sam


If it ain't got air brakes I don't want it.

[glennpm]

Hi big job,


I do the same thing, wedging a 2X4 between the seat and a depressed brake pedal. Started doing this with motorcycles and now do it with my old cars too. Works great.


Glenn

[19Fordy]

Hope: Read all this. These two threads are not the same despite what is shown below.
Might help. Don't give up. You will prevail.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...t=bleed+brakes

and

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...t=bleed+brakes

[hope]

That's the way i've done it many times before, but its not working this time.

[hope]

I'm sorry, i was referring to the stick on the pedal. (Damn old age).

[1931 flamingo]

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Anybody close to you to "pump and hold" while you bleed??
Paul

[19Fordy]

Hope, Is it possible that you have air being sucked into the system when you try to bleed?
I too have used Speed Bleeders and the "stick on the pedal" and it always worked. Very strange.

[hope]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

Anybody close to you to "pump and hold" while you bleed??
Paul

YES

[hope]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Hope, Is it possible that you have air being sucked into the system when you try to bleed?
I too have used Speed Bleeders and the "stick on the pedal" and it always worked. Very strange.

I have not done any bleeding of the system for a while, i may have been too impatient at first. Did check back when i did the first time, and didn't seem to have any leak or sucking.


I'm referring back to one of my first posts, about looking up the Search section of the Ford barn, and there's soooo much information, that i don't know where to start.


But i'm not going to give up, just need TIME.