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Old 06-17-2021, 02:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Answered -

Stay away from anything now marked as TYPE A. It's only use I know of is dirt bikes gear boxes.

Whatever it is, it must come from a large and respected refiner.

https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ercon-atf.html


https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/produ...ype-f-atf.html
Thank you for the reply.
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Old 06-17-2021, 02:52 PM   #22
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

Just wondering, if draining the pan and torque converter, (or maybe take the pan off and cleaning it too) is sufficient before replacing with Type F. Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?
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Old 06-17-2021, 03:41 PM   #23
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Post Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer View Post

Just wondering, if draining the pan and torque converter, (or maybe take the pan off and cleaning it too) is sufficient before replacing with Type F. Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?
IMO ...

A MANUAL FLUSH is the only acceptable way to perform a full service. Do not use a flush machine as who knows when it was last serviced and what type of fluid/residues lingers within it.

A complete drop and fill (incl conv) will most likely suffice (depending on service history and lubricant used) if you perform a pan drop and filter shortly afterwards.

A trans must be serviced on a regular basis. The fluid draws moisture out of the air (hygroscopic) breaking it down and detergents also wear down.

Unless you have a temp gauge and possibly a cooler, who knows what heat it is exposed to.

This is IMO only as I am a detail nut (CDO in correct alphabetical sequence for OCD).
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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KULTULZ: If GM still offers an early DEXRON or there is a refiner that blends to the exact period specification(s) then that is what should be considered for use.

I am curious, what specific brand and type is your recommendation?

rotorwrench: I have found that lengthening the TV rod will soften the shift and visa versa. It appears that your recommendation would be Type F.
Rotorwrench said it in their opinion type F would not hurt - I wouldn't say that's an endorsement. I think most are recommending Dex/Merc.
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Old 06-17-2021, 04:56 PM   #25
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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Rotorwrench said it in their opinion type F would not hurt - I wouldn't say that's an endorsement. I think most are recommending Dex/Merc.
Synthetic blend motor oil was "tried out" for a time in aircraft engines and was discontinued due to excessive internal engine wear. I'd recommend staying all mineral or all synthetic to minimize possible problematic results.

Isn't Dex/Merc synthetic or is it all mineral?
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Old 06-17-2021, 05:15 PM   #26
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Post Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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Isn't Dex/Merc synthetic or is it all mineral?
Always read the PDS - Specs -

Quote:
Chevron Automatic Transmission Fluid MD-3 is a passenger car and light truck automatic transmission fluid for most pre-2006 automatic transmissions built by General Motors, Ford Motor Company and other makes requiring a high-performance, multi-purpose, power transmission fluid.It is formulated with premium, severely hydro-processed base stocks and additives that helps provide oxidation and thermal stability, friction control, load-carrying ability, corrosion and wear protection. It helps protect against the formation of deposits, sludge, varnish, and foam
Kinda makes you wonder about JIFFY-LUBE doesn't it ...
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:33 AM   #27
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Talking Re: New baby 1953 Merc

And to add to the confusion -

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/choo...rformance-car/
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Old 06-18-2021, 02:37 AM   #28
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Talking Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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Does it need to be flushed, and if to with what?
Overlooked this one -

If flushing, you would use the ATF you are going to fill it with, in this case TYPE F which is still available from FORD so you know it has not been adulterated.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

I find it hard to "recommend" any lubricant on a forum such as this so I don't do it anymore. Folks that want to do the research should do it themselves and make their own decisions on these matters.

I will reiterate one thing that can not be overlooked. The original type A and B will never be available again due to what was used to blend it. Whale oil is not available in the USA. It's as simple as that. Dexron II and Ford Type F were attempts to develop products that would do the job for their power trains without the use of whale oil. They needed a replacement in the 1968 to 73 time frame so this was the results they came up with. Another result was the added red dye.
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:19 AM   #30
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Question Re: New baby 1953 Merc

I thought we went through the whale oil discussion a few weeks ago. Whale oil has nothing to do with modern lubricants.

As for recommending, I do not do that either (not anywhere qualified). If a question is asked I will point to information. It is up to the reader to decide how he wants to proceed.

Now why would ATF be dyed red?
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:26 AM   #31
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

KULTULZ and rotorwrench ,

Thank you both for your insights, comments and suggestions.

I have made a decision to go with the Type F, (selection of the brand is a whole other story) and flush the system and refill with new, then watch it closely for any difference in shifting performance.

I have to admit, sometimes, after reading the latest posts each morning, I wonder why why anyone would ever take their car out of the garage. But then I remember my parents taking me from Michigan to Wyoming, for vacation in the same car I own now, with out issues.

Life is a series of decisions, and owning a classic car provides you with an unending supply!
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Old 06-18-2021, 09:34 AM   #32
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Post Re: New baby 1953 Merc

Please consider ATF as to quality, not price.
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Old 06-18-2021, 10:35 AM   #33
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Post Re: New baby 1953 Merc

From This Thread - Post #13

- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=296151

Quote:
... transmissions ran smoothly and reliably using whale oil in lubricating fluids, as long as engine coolant temperatures ran below 173 degrees F. Fortunately for the whales, by the 1970s engines became subject to tighter emissions regulations and engineers had to design them to run hotter.

Other demands such as front-wheel-drive and ever-increased emissions limits boosted the operating temperatures of engines to well over 200 degrees F, forcing research efforts into synthetic lubricants and rendering the use of whale oil (really an ester, not an oil) obsolete.

The Endangered Species Act of 1972, followed by an "indefinite moratorium" set in 1986 protects those whales remaining. Only the Japanese and Norwegians still kill whales for meat. While our society now looks at this senseless killing as; well, senseless and selfish, think of how you might have felt about driving a 50s or 60s-era car with an automatic transmission or locking differential if you had known that large numbers of whales had to die for your convenience. It isn't a pretty story, is it?
INFO SOURCE - http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/725.cfm

So whale oil (or lack thereof) is not a factor in modern lubricant. Whale oil was used for it's anti-corrosive properties.
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:14 AM   #34
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

What is the actual "mineral oil" used now?
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Old 06-18-2021, 11:45 AM   #35
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Post Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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What is the actual "mineral oil" used now?
Quote:
Group II oils are distinguished from less refined Group I by their higher purity, low levels of sulfur, nitrogen and aromatics, and superior oxidation stability. Pure Group II base oil is actually clear as water – it’s the additives that give finished motor oil its darker color. Group I oils are not suitable for applications requiring premium base oils, and their use is steadily declining. Group II oils can be substituted for many Group I applications. The base oils in these Groups (I and II) are typically referred to as “mineral conventional base oils.”
READ MORE - https://www.chevronlubricants.com/en...-the-base.html
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Old 06-18-2021, 08:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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Thank you, that was not only informative but also interesting.
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Old 06-19-2021, 12:59 PM   #37
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

The argument about the correct fluid or the correct oil is something that will never be resolved. I once was the tech editor for a classic ford club. I had the question come up in the early 70's. Not knowing my rear end from a hole in the ground, I contacted an automotive lubricant engineer at Chevron. He gave m all kinds of information on friction modifiers and other technical information that I only partially understood. His bottom line is, that the closest current fluid to Type A, Suffix A is the Dexron fluid. It has been several years since I got the information but it is my understanding that the Dexron II, III, IV etc is till the best fluid to use. Anecdotally, several people have said they use type F and some were Ford garage techs. Type F does not stand for Ford any more than Type A stands for American Motors. It was simply a spec. The only thing I remember from the conversation with the engineer is that the type F allows for a sharper shift due to those friction modifiers. How the work, I have no clue. I use the Dexron in my cars and will continue to do so until I hear from someone with the oils engineering background that there is something better.
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Old 06-19-2021, 03:41 PM   #38
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

I am starting to feel bad for bigd1101 = Don, all he wanted to do was change his transmission fluid. He was thinking I will buy a 53' Mercury, they are simpler to maintain.
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Old 06-19-2021, 06:37 PM   #39
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Question Re: New baby 1953 Merc

The main problem is people believing information that was current in the fifties. It would be akin to a brain surgeon relying on medical information from the fifties.

It is not that hard to figure.

Original manufacturers licenses have expired FORD-GM-MOPAR-FOREIGN) (except for FORD TYPE F) and you have snake oil peddlers saying one fluid fits all. Nothing farther from the truth. As for a trans shop, one may have completely different thoughts and experiences from another. Most draw fluid from a single drum except for current tech (hopefully).

The fluid being discussed here (CHEVRON in this case) is a fluid that is neither DEXRON (GM) or FORD (MERCON) exact but a blend that will hopefully work in either application.

None are licensed and/or approved by auto manufacturers. FORD used GM A and DEXRONS until 1959 when they began to blend their own.

It is either that are go to approved back fill synthetics. If it will be a complete flush and just not add or pan drop, I would go with the synthetic. But that is just me, your mileage may vary.

TYPE F was a culmination of oils produced by FOMOCO beginning in 1959 and ending with TYPE G and H.

I feel sorry for the OP also. But chances are the trans is due for a rebuild anyway.
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 06-19-2021 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 06-20-2021, 11:34 AM   #40
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Default Re: New baby 1953 Merc

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I am starting to feel bad for bigd1101 = Don, all he wanted to do was change his transmission fluid. He was thinking I will buy a 53' Mercury, they are simpler to maintain.
LOL! I ran into this same confusion on the Model A here on all kinds of subjects. I always take advice with a grain of salt anyway. I take a "poll" from you all and which ever product/repair/maintenance subject gets the most thumbs up, I usually go with that.

This subject......I'm going with the Dex/Merc stuff, draining the tranny/torque converter, putting in the new stuff, driving away into the sunset.

BTW, the 80 year old former owner said the tranny "was gone over entirely" and by the looks of the car, I believe him.

Don
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