New clutch wo't disengage

[chap52]

52 F-1, 3-speed.
A few weeks ago I had a TO Bearing start “sounding off” when the pedal was depressed. Pulled trans and went ahead and replaced the pilot bearing, clutch, pressure plate and release bearing (all from Mac VanPelt). I also noticed release bearing hub had uneven wear and replaced that as well as the spring that holds it in place.
Here’s the dilemma, the clutch will not fully disengage Had to shut off engine and start in 1st gear because it would just grind when I tried to put it in gear. Weird part is that if I start it in gear the truck does not seem to try and creep ahead?
Max out adjustment on clutch pedal release arm and still have 4+ inches of free play in clutch pedal. Pulled transmission today thinking that maybe the pin holding the release bearing fork had sheared/bent. Does not appear to be damaged.
Would appreciate some help figuring this adventure out. Thanks!

[V8COOPMAN]

With 4+ inches of free play in the pedal, it sounds like you may have adjusted in the wrong direction. It will NEVER disengage with that much free play. DD

[chap52]

Thanks DD, Shortening the adjustment rod did not correct the free play issue??? I have tried it both as long and as short as I could get it. I just want to make sure that it is not a parts issue before I re-install the tranny. Good news is that I am getting really proficient at it.

[AnthonyG]

Chap, I haven't been inside mine in 3 or 4 years but seem to remember the TO bearing can be installed 180 out and have the opposite face against the PP which might put it further away from the PP. If your opened up not hard to check.

[AnthonyG]

Forget that, just went and checked the old TO bearing and it's unique One side to the otherand pretty obvious with the spring hook which way it goes. Must have been thinking of one of my other newer toys. Sorry about that.

[chap52]

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The larger side is towards pressure plate assy.. I believe that is the correct way??

[AnthonyG]

Did you compare the two PP's? Possible different dimension from the engage face to the back of the spring diaphragm or Arms depending on style? Did you disassemble the clutch linkage?

[cmbrucew]

Clutch disk in backwards?
Bruce

[chap52]

Both PP's appeared to be the same and the clutch is in with the snout facing the PP.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by chap52

The larger side is towards pressure plate assy.. I believe that is the correct way??

The springs and the longer piece of hub should be pointing to the rear (to trans).

Can you look thru the inspection hole and see that the disc is being released?

What does MacVP sell for pressure plates? Are they rebuilt or new? Chinese?

[fordwife]

Before you assembled everything, did you check to see that the disc would slide freely on the splines?

[chap52]

Trans is currently on my work bench. With the symptoms I described I assume that it is not releasing, but will take a peek when I put it back in. Pressure plate is "New", not sure of Nationality.
No problem sliding on splines.
If need be I will tear it all down and start with step one of reassembling.

[40cpe]

There have been problems in the past with the disc being thicker than specs. This puts the release arms lower than they should be. Mac should be aware of that, though.

[AnthonyG]

Based on you indicating " snout facing the PP." and based on what Ross said "The springs and the longer piece of hub should be pointing to the rear (to trans). " assuming your calling the snout the longer end of the hub, sounds like the clutch plate might be in backwards?

[chap52]

The longer end (snout) is facing the PP/Trans.

Really appreciate all the responses...Thanks

[1931flathead]

this side to the transmission

[chap52]

It is as you said. Thanks for the pic.

I also have a PM to Mac advising him of the problem.

[Binx]

I.D. of pilot may be too snug and spinning the shaft. It will probably wear in soon.

Lonnie

[AnthonyG]

Chap just thinking out loud here. Here's the puzzling thing. The full stroke of the pedal including the 3/4" to 1" of free play is 5" to 6". The actual movement at T bearing is approx 9/16" to 5/8" to disingage. So the entire pedal stroke of approx 6" only moves th At bearing at most approx 5/8" of travel. My point is it should be impossible to have 4" of free play. Unless the fingers on the pressure plate are closer to the flywheel by another 9/16" to 5/8" which would explain the extra 4" free play you describe.

[chap52]

Anthony, Thanks for the numbers. I don't get it either. I am going to have to pull the PP and clutch and see if there are any clues to what is going on along the way. I may have messed something up with the PP when after initial assembly I took it on about a two mile test drive( had shifting issues then) before I discovered that the release bearing hub was unevenly worn. That's when I replaced it and the first new bearing just in case it was damaged.
I have total confidence in the parts I got from VanPelt's and figure I did something to mess things up. Praying that total disassembly will disclose the gremlin. Thanks!

Binx, new pilot is a roller bearing and not a bushing.

[chap52]

Maybe the fingers on the PP are stuck in a partially depressed position and loosening the PP bolts will cause them to snap back into place?
And maybe I'll win the Publishers Clearing House Sweepstakes? LOL

[richard crow]

check the pin that goes through the fork to the shaft. with the fork all the way back put a wrench on the end of the shaft & try to pull wrench toward the back of trans.

[chap52]

Richard, Thanks, I will try that this afternoon.

[JSeery]

Ok, if you don't have the transmission installed, what is the throw out bearing hub sliding on? I not sure you can get the throw out bearing to work without it being on the transmission front cover sleeve.

[chap52]

Fork is solid.
Tranny still has housing attached and TO bearing is accessible. When operated by hand the bearing will go forward on shaft to a position that is about 1/8 inch past front edge of the housing.
The measurements seem to indicate that all is well, but I've changed nothing since opening it up. I'll just keep dabbling with it until something is found.
Thanks again to all...Chap

[JSeery]

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Ok and what shaft is the TO bearing moving on? I could be wrong, but I don't see how it could work like this.

[AnthonyG]

J I think he's using the clutch linkage pivot shaft sticking out the side of the front flange on the tranny to slide the T-bearing forward on the input shaft, not sure an 1/8" past the front of the flange is enough as I have never measured the relationship of how far the T bearing has to move past the flange to actuate the PP diaphragm.

[Capt Kirk]

Not likely but I'll throw this out. I've purchased pressure plates in the distant past that had temporary blocks installed to keep the PP in the released position. Made it easier to align the disc with the PP fully bolted in.

[chap52]

Anthony that's what I am doing.
It slides forward on the shaft about 1/2 inch (my oops).
Hope the photo helps decipher what I am saying.

[chap52]

It does seem as though it could/slide forward a bit more but I will have to emery cloth the surfaces as it is a new TO bearing hub.

[AnthonyG]

I think that's close, I was having other issues when I put new PP, C-plate, pilot and
T-bearing several yrs ago and I remember measuring the max stroke slide travel at approx. 5/8". If your indicating with a little massaging you'll get a little more than 1/2" travel I think you'll be close.

[chap52]

Yeah, Taking all the good input into account I don't see any other issues other than the restricted TO bearing travel. I will doctor the surfaces, lightly oil and see if I can get a smooth transition. If all looks good I will reinstall and see if I can get a "happy adjustment" dialed in.
(There were no temp blocks)
Thanks again

[justold]

Originally Posted by chap52

Yeah, Taking all the good input into account I don't see any other issues other than the restricted TO bearing travel. I will doctor the surfaces, lightly oil and see if I can get a smooth transition. If all looks good I will reinstall and see if I can get a "happy adjustment" dialed in.
(There were no temp blocks)
Thanks again

Just food for thought , I remember many years ago my uncle and I replaced the clutch in my fathers 52 f1 and we had the same problem ,we could not get enough adjustment on it . The problem was the two half moon brass bushings on the end of the shaft that is connected from the frame to transmission .

[chap52]

justold, Good thought. Mine seem to be fine but I will double check them today.

[Ross F-1]

I don't see it mentioned; is this a 10" clutch? and you haven't changed transmissions, in particular from a crashbox 4-sp to the 3-sp?

[George/Maine]

The clutch disks are about the same thickness, but when you have a presser plate that has different fingers, newer style with NO screw adjustment's are most likely the problem. If you have the old pp look and see the different. To check the distance both new and old measure from flywheel to tip of finger. The adjustment on fingers are for the factory to set the correct distant.

[chap52]

Praise God! Another adventure concluded. The problem was that marred shaft (snout) that the TO Bearing Hub slides on, Got it operating smoothly, light lube, install, adjust and all is well. I'll get the interior back in and take the dog on a test cruise this afternoon.
I felt certain that the parts I got from Mac VanPelt were, as always, first class and that it had to be something I overlooked (spaced-out) along the way.
Thanks to all for the input, it is always encouraging to talk these adventures with others that tinker on these old rigs. Chap

[AnthonyG]

Great, glad you got there chap! Your right about being able to talk it through on FB, good Guys great sources of knowledge. Been there quite a few times myself.