T-5 5 speed trans VS Mitchell overdrive

[JRN1967]

With some advice from Ken and Al, I just finished my F150 conversion.

Doing most of the work myself, it cost just over $1,200 total.

[Anteek29]

JRN1967: Thanks for those great photos...impressive conversion!

[kenparker]

Congrats on the DIY.

[LeroyM]

Go with the T5, no experience with the Mitchell but the T5 shifts smooth as butter, put a V8 in front of it and a Ford 9 inch rear out back and you got a winning combo that will give no trouble and keep up with traffic at low rpm's and give good gas mileage to. Hard to beat.


I've played the model A engine and model B engine with a 39 transmission game and in the end I wish I had went with the combo I wound up with. Would have saved lots of time, headaches and money along the way.

[Davew]

I have a T5 behind a stock engine model A and really like it. Would do it again. I live in a hilly area and the 5 speeds are great. May have to use 4th on strong headwinds. Friend has a mitchell and thinks he should have gone this way. I bought a short throw shifter with a model A shift lever welded to it. Makes shifting a breeze and looks like it belongs.

[john in illinois]

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Originally Posted by JRN1967

With some advice from Ken and Al, I just finished my F150 conversion.

Doing most of the work myself, it cost just over $1,200 total.

You will love it.

John

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'd be happy with an overdrive also, and intended to install one, but have decided to go with the 3.27 ring and pinion instead. It will look totally stock and give more speed, but I mainly want to lower the engine RPM at the 45 to 50 that I drive.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by LeroyM

Go with the T5, no experience with the Mitchell but the T5 shifts smooth as butter, put a V8 in front of it and a Ford 9 inch rear out back and you got a winning combo that will give no trouble and keep up with traffic at low rpm's and give good gas mileage to. Hard to beat.


I've played the model A engine and model B engine with a 39 transmission game and in the end I wish I had went with the combo I wound up with. Would have saved lots of time, headaches and money along the way.

If you pumped up the A or B and stuck a mitchell behind it you might have found what you were looking for,especially with a '39 trans..6 synchro gears final drive at 2.90 and 80 horse or so? it aint a V8,but it will pull your hat off..and its still a model a ..

[kenparker]

Railcarmover. What do you do to a Model A engine to squeeze "80 horse" out of it besides add a overhead valve system. 65 to 70Hp easy, but 80? whats the secret? ken

[Railcarmover]

http://www.modelaparts.net/dynosheets.htm/lionstk.htm

Modified flathead engines can achieve over 80 horse.But a good rule of thumb is double power of a stock A.My point in the thread isn't to argue about how much an engine puts out on a dyno,its the driveability of a modified flathead A engine with 6 synchronized forward speed and a final drive ratio of 2.9 to 1.

[Railcarmover]

A better question is why would you put the money in a fully synchronized overdrive transmission and stay at 40 horsepower? you've already passed the purist line,why not up the power some? your transmission can definitely handle it.You do the modification in part for the overdrive,you want more speed.In my opinion a T5 install is just as bad as a 350 chevy install,it kills the model a experience. With a modified flat head and a mitchell behind an A trans you have a choice,you can drive it like a stock A.

[kenparker]

Railcar, I am not wanting to argue anybody's point. I do not drive a stock car any more. Just curious as to how you got your 80 hp. My 31 coupe with a F150 tranny is about 55hp and the other , Woody, is somewhere in the 60 to 65 range with a stock trans and a Mitchell 26%. I would like to put more hp in the woody

[Railcarmover]

Ok,sounds good. Where are you at with the woody?.Piriano gained air flow by running bigger valves,I run a 'C' grind (late B)cam with .319 measured lift is about .040 actual lift increase over the stock A cam with stock valves and sleeved to stock cylinders.Then I basically built around it with maximum air flow in mind. 6 to 1 winfield re pop aluminum head,you can go up to 7 to 1,anything past that and you start losing air flow..the rest? model a engine airflow rate is around 160 CFM,a single stromberg 97 or Holley 94 match it almost dead on @170 CFM,dual carbs are sexy but you have overfuel issues to contend with, 340 CFM rate from two carbs doesnt stuff through 160 CFM engine very well.
Fuel and compression are your biggest bang for the buck,I used a Red's 4 into 2 header and a flow master extractor for exhaust,once again its air flow,what goes in must come out. Model B distributor and bosch blue coil,run 12 v system. Bronze timing gear and fixed cam plunger for reliability.

Horsepower? who knows,but the result is amazing over a stock engine. Greater efficiency through matched air flow and compression increase means it runs cooler with better fuel economy than a stock engine.Dont get me wrong,I like a stock model a,and will build one..but here in suburban CA you basically cant drive one without the safety of a convoy,the fools will eat you alive if you run solo.

[Dave in MN]

Originally Posted by kenparker

Railcar, I am not wanting to argue anybody's point. I do not drive a stock car any more. Just curious as to how you got your 80 hp. My 31 coupe with a F150 tranny is about 55hp and the other , Woody, is somewhere in the 60 to 65 range with a stock trans and a Mitchell 26%. I would like to put more hp in the woody

Ken, You ask how to produce 80 HP without an overhead valve head. 80 HP is my goal for a touring car I am building up. I am currently dyno breaking in a B block that has full oil pressure and is equipped to produce in excess of 80 HP.

Build Spec: Lion Speed Head III that is milled .074", intake valve pockets are relieved (see photo below), the cylinder to head clearance is .030" and all sharp edges in the combustion chamber have been rounded with emery cloth to eliminate any hot spots.
Camshaft is a Stipe IB 340 with bronze/steel gear set from Dan McEachern, solid stop on the cam plunger yet maintains the stock plunger spring, oil piped to spray the cam gear through a #58 drill size orifice. Stipe high capacity oil pump with multiple pressure relief valves to accurately control the oil pressure. Cold oil pressure: Idle 35 psi, 2800 rpm: 55 psi. Warm oil pressure: Idle 19 psi, 2800 rpm 50 psi. Oil passages from the oil galley to the mains increased in diameter and other passages restricted per Jim Brierly's book: 4- bangers! And me!
Crankshaft modified for full oil to mains and rods, thrust moved from rear main to front journal using radial bearing sets. (see photo below) Small block Chevy rear main seal.
Valves are 1.530" straight stem, one pc. guides, rotators on the exhaust valve only and .125" spacers (thick washers) between the top of the springs and the roof of the valve chamber.
No porting of the block. Cast iron exhaust header (Snyder's)
Scalded Dog Intake with Single Stromberg 97, currently set up with standard jets and power valve.

I only have about 45 minutes on this engine and it is creating 145 ftlb of torque at 2800 rpm. This equals 77+ HP. Corrected HP = 81.6
I will be adding another 97 carb when a dual downdraft manifold and a FSI distributor arrive next week. From past experience, on previous engines, I expect to increase the output to about 86 HP with these changes at 2800 rpm. Update: FSI distributor added 1.5 HP.
The torque is not dropping off much up to 3200 rpm but I don't care what it makes at that point because I am building this engine for a touring car and won't be operating in that range. I will make a couple dyno pulls up to 3200 rpm next week just to see what it will do and expect it will produce in excess of 90 HP.
You can produce the same power or more with an A block with proper porting, larger valves and the equipment I describe above.

I guess we are a bit off track from the T-5 topic of this thread so to bring it back in the right direction, this engine will be coupled to an open drive shaft T-5 transmission in a '31 S/W Town Sedan.
I am having fun in my shop here in Minnesota!
Good Day!

[kenparker]

I will respond to the HP issue later. For now I want to clarify something. There ate two "Ken's" here in north Texas. Ken Parker, me, used to buid F150 OD kits. The other "Ken" is Ken Davis. He build the awesome A/C kits.

[Dave in MN]

Sorry Ken. I made the same AC mistake once before when I replied to one of your posts. I took the AC reference out of my previous post. Thanks for correcting me.
Dave

[Railcarmover]

Nice work Dave.Im a firm believer in babbit and gravity oil provided you don't spin the engine too hard.keep it under 3500 and your fine with the original lower end.The torque curve of a modified flathead limits you by nature,I built in some insurance using stock valve springs to hold mine back.Dave to his credit built a lower end to withstand just about anything you can throw at it,and kept a high reliability factor by limiting the valve size and running a flathead.What amazes me is you can basically double the output of the engine (in Daves case,triple) without shortening the engine life..damn few engines you can do that with..

[denniskliesen]

Originally Posted by Dave in MN

Camshaft is a Stipe IB 340 with bronze/steel gear set from Dan McEachern, solid stop on the cam plunger yet maintains the stock plunger spring, oil piped to spray the cam gear through a #58 drill size orfice.

Why do you need a solid stop for the cam plunger? What material did you use to make it? Why do you need to spray the cam gear with all the oil spraying around in there?

[Railcarmover]

I'm also a firm believer in a modified flathead as opposed to an OHV helped a friend set one up,got it turned and running good,he was grinning from ear to ear,till I mentioned he spent 15k turning a model a into a pinto..my black eye healed

[Pete]

Originally Posted by denniskliesen

Why do you need a solid stop for the cam plunger? What material did you use to make it? Why do you need to spray the cam gear with all the oil spraying around in there?

1- To positively control cam walk. (it is a race thing)

2- 3/4-16 socket head cap screw with jam nut. Screw surface that contacts cam is bronze coated.

2- To lube the gears better. You can never get too much oil there. ( it is a engine longevity thing)