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02-05-2018, 07:49 PM | #1 |
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8 volt battery question
My 31 has difficulty starting when it gets cold so I started looking around to see if there is anything I can do. I still run the 6v system, but I have upgraded to a Pertronix in a vintage Mallory Dual-Point distributor. After some research I've come to the conclusion that an 8v battery is the way to go. I called Pertronix and they verified that it won't damage their unit....in fact it will help.
Well, I find myself at the local mega farm store yesterday and they have five of their 8v batteries on the shelf. I was about to throw one in my cart when I looked at the label.....and here's my question. The battery I've ran for the last 5 years is a carquest #1-30. If you look up the specs it has 800 CA and 640 CCA. OK great you say, but if everyone says that an 8v battery is supposed to crank the engine better than how come the battery I'm looking to buy (#c8v-1) has LESS CA and CCA??? I'm definitely not an electrical guy, but how can a battery with less cranking amps do a better job of cranking over an engine? I'm ASSUMING it has to do with some calculation based on the voltage, resistance, and amperage but I just want to make sure before I lay down the cash. Thanks in advance for the simply electrical lesson.....I'm sure that's all I need. |
02-05-2018, 08:29 PM | #2 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I think it begs the question. Can you point to a link or where your research led to this conclusion? Not trying to be combative here, but I'm wondering why this is the answer. Do they sell 8 volt battery chargers?
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02-05-2018, 08:41 PM | #3 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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02-05-2018, 08:58 PM | #4 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Run an extra ground strap directly to the transmission. This may help. Jeff
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02-05-2018, 08:59 PM | #5 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
If I'm wrong I know someone will correct me, but I don't believe am 8 volt battery in a 6 volt system will ever be fully charged. I also think it will shorten the life of your light bulbs. you should do a search here on the Barn because I know 8 volt batteries have been discussed before.
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02-05-2018, 09:16 PM | #6 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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02-05-2018, 09:21 PM | #7 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I don't use an 8 volt battery. I do know that my completely stock original 6 volt model A generator fully charges my 12 volt battery. The model A generator will charge whatever battery that it is connected to up to 40 volts . The generator charges in amps. Using an 8 volt battery could very well shorten 6 volt bulb life . Original type bulbs are pretty cheap and would last a while . The best bet for a more powerfull electrical system is a 12 volt conversion. A 12 volt positive ground conversion doesn't require changing a single wire . Good 12 volt bulbs are readily available that fit the original sockets , even halogen
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02-05-2018, 09:27 PM | #8 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Volts do all the work.
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02-05-2018, 09:33 PM | #9 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Amps charge the battery !!!
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02-05-2018, 09:39 PM | #10 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I understand the benefits of converting to 12v, but I'm dead set on running an old 6v Echlin beehive coil so I'm stuck. I haven't had an issue with the 6v system other than it cranks slow when it's cold. I can start the car if I hook a charger to it. I realize that the issue might be the age of my current 6v battery (5 years) but it does test 6.4v with a multimeter. From what I've read/heard an 8v battery is a good upgrade so I planned on buying one to try, but I was concerned when I saw the cranking amps were lower on the 8v than the 6v. That's what didn't make sense.
I have been told I'll need to adjust my voltage regulator to 8.5v but other than that all should be fine. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk |
02-05-2018, 09:43 PM | #11 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
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02-05-2018, 09:55 PM | #12 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
fix what is wrong with your car and the original 6 volt system will work fine.
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02-05-2018, 10:04 PM | #13 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I agree. A good working 6 volt system will work the best. Find the problem and fix it.
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02-05-2018, 10:05 PM | #14 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Some people just want a more powerfull electrical system. There was nothing wrong with the six volt system on my roadster.Six volts is a bare get by.
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02-05-2018, 10:07 PM | #15 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Ok that makes sense.
So let's ASSUME that everything is fine but my old 6v battery is wore out. Can someone tell me why I shouldn't install an 8v battery? Or why anyone wouldn't install an 8v battery for that matter. If the only drawback is having to adjust your voltage regulator and bulbs not lasting as long (but burning brighter while they work) then I guess I don't see why more people don't switch (other than a 100 point restoration car). Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk |
02-05-2018, 10:09 PM | #16 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I tried the 8 volt battery .. Worked great But I have an electronic voltage regulator inside my generator which is trying to maintain 6.6volts hence the 8 volt battery never charged .. switch back to the 6 volt battery and everything works fine
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02-05-2018, 10:10 PM | #17 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
I just use 6 volt batteries because that's what's suppose to be used and I've never had a problem with them. |
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02-05-2018, 10:41 PM | #18 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 02-05-2018 at 10:47 PM. Reason: added info |
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02-05-2018, 10:52 PM | #19 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Adjust your voltage regulator???? I take it you don't have a stock charging system? The battery is the regulator on an original charging system. Original charging system will charge an 8V battery just fine but all your bulbs are going to burn out early. If you have a good 6V battery with the proper sized battery cables, and a ground strap between starter and frame, 6 V will crank the engine just fine for winter starts.
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02-05-2018, 10:54 PM | #20 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
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02-06-2018, 12:41 AM | #21 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Model A's have started 90 years in single digit temps and below on 6v systems. I would add a ground cable from battery terminal to trans as a good solid ground for the starter and clean every connection from battery to inside the starter switch. Also have your battery load tested - it may be dead/dying... Have you been checking the water level in it?
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02-06-2018, 03:58 AM | #22 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
The best used for an 8 volt battery is to connect 4 of them in series, so you have 32 volts, then give them to me for my 32 volt Delco light plant. 8 volts for cars sucks.
Electrical power is measured in watts, and volts X amps = watts. Amps is the amount of flow of electrons, and volts is the amount of pressure moving those electrons. Model A's don't need to crank fast to start, they just need a good spark. I'd go back to the original ignition system. Mine and thousands more have worked fine since 1928. The 8 volt battery has the same size case as the 6 volt battery, so it must have fewer plates per cell to fit 4 cells where 3 cells fit in the 6 volt case. Fewer plates per cell means less surface area, so it has fewer amps. |
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02-06-2018, 05:38 AM | #23 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I bought a 8 volt battery off someone who had gone to 12 volts . The battery was nearly new and at a very good price . I bought it blind and was delivered by a friend who picked it up fpr me . I had thought it would have been a 6 volt but it turned out to be a new looking 8 volt . As my 68B battery had died I installed it ,charges just fine with the 6 volt generator and cutout . So far so good ,downside is that my bulbs have blown except the main headlamps and stoplight bulbs . DRAT!!! Just thinking does anyone do 8 volt bulbs ??? . I do not drive at night by choice so no harm done and also the winking indicators still work with the VW 6 volt can .
John in very cold snow falling BRRRR!!! Suffolk County England . |
02-06-2018, 08:19 AM | #24 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
The higher the voltage the less amps required. Remember Volts do all the work.
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02-06-2018, 08:40 AM | #25 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Here’s a thought. What’s the temperature? If it’s below freezing it just could be the grade of oil you’re using. If you’re using a single grade oil it can get to thick in cold weather.
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02-06-2018, 10:01 AM | #26 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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There has been lots of suggestions, but nobody mentioned the starter. What condition is your starter in? Maybe it needs to be overhauled. A poor 6V starter WILL be sluggish in the cold. If your battery is weak that will compound the problem.
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02-06-2018, 12:32 PM | #27 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I tried 8v with no luck . charging system not up to it . good 6v with good grounds or 12v .
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02-06-2018, 03:22 PM | #28 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
My Father tried the eight volt trick a few years ago with little luck and many burnt bulbs.
I remember it worked quite well for about three months and then one night he needed the head lights. After replacing all the burnt bulbs, I argued they would just burn out again, but he still liked the way it spun the engine over. Then the coil went, then the condenser, and more bulbs. We saw some trouble with the points pitting but that may have been due to the failing condenser. Finally he gave up. We went back to a new six volt system, with a rebuilt swap meet starter and a new Genny. Extra grounds new bulbs and presto everything was working reliably again even during the winter. I found most of his system was dirty/corroded and just needed TLC. Save the dough on the low CCA eight volt (Marine applications up here) and rebuild what she was born with. JM2Cents. |
02-06-2018, 03:40 PM | #29 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Some of the farmers use to use 8 volts in there farmall M They burned out the lights. They were a pain, not needed.
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02-06-2018, 03:58 PM | #30 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
My last A came with a eight volt battery. Never had any problems. I am not advocating eight over six. I am also a firm believer that if you leave everything as Henry made it you should have no problems.
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02-06-2018, 04:10 PM | #31 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Using an 8 Volt battery is as STUPID/DUMB/DESTRUCTIVE, as filling your engine with 140W GEAROIL.
Guess Who?
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02-06-2018, 05:19 PM | #32 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Bill. How's it going.
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02-06-2018, 07:01 PM | #33 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Daren,
Fair to middling, argueing with the Doc about ANTI-PAIN-PILLS---At least, we're warm & comfy, 75 High today. My Brother in Law lived in St Cloud, he must have been HOT NATURED??? Bill W.
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02-06-2018, 09:26 PM | #34 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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02-06-2018, 10:38 PM | #35 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
If 'volts do all the work',
why will very high amps at very low voltage kill you, but very low amps at very high voltage will not kill you?
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02-06-2018, 10:47 PM | #36 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Amps hold you to it . Volts knock you off. High voltage like a 40.000 volt coil hit hard but don't have enough amps to hold you to it and kill you .
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02-06-2018, 10:52 PM | #37 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
To hopefully answer your cranking amps question, the 8 volt battery with les cca will not crank as long as the 6V. But it has higher bolts pushing it. However your starter only needs about 100 amps. That said, 6.4 volts is low. You probably have a bad battery. No matter what you put in, it will work better.
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02-06-2018, 10:55 PM | #38 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Ugh, I've learned that one, several times!
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02-06-2018, 11:15 PM | #39 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
High amps will pull your fingers arround the source so that you can't turn loose . If you test by hand, do it with the back of your hand or fingers , That way you may be able to break loose. At least that is what I have been told . If I touch an electrical source it will be by accident .
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02-06-2018, 11:50 PM | #40 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Also like the age ol "measure twice cut once" applies to electrical wires too but an extra step is measure suspected dead circuit - then measure known live circuit - then measure dead circuit again to make sure its dead. Saved my butt once when my meter decided to wig out and display 14VAC when really I was on 120VAC... BTW fun info those push button gas BBQ grill sparkers that make your nice blue spark are like 14,000 volts but like .002 amps. Great for potato guns haha
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02-07-2018, 10:15 AM | #41 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Bill Owncook
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02-07-2018, 11:21 AM | #42 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
if you fire the potato at a chain link fence you do indeed get yard fries
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02-07-2018, 12:37 PM | #43 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
When I bought my 30 PU it had a 8 volt battery in it. Soon learned that the slighest bump in the road and my blulbs would burn out. Soon got rid of the 8 volt, problem solved.
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02-07-2018, 01:26 PM | #44 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
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02-07-2018, 02:16 PM | #45 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 02-09-2018 at 11:41 AM. |
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02-07-2018, 02:39 PM | #46 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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As it turns out, I took my 6v battery to 3 different shops yesterday and all of them tested it having a bad cell. Looks like I'll be getting a new 6v battery and all should be good. Thanks again everyone. Now I'm off to find a bbq igniter to launch some potatoes at the fence. Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk |
02-07-2018, 05:09 PM | #47 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
If you have a BI-MART near you I have had good luck with their 6 volt batteries. I get 7-8 years average.
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02-08-2018, 08:56 PM | #48 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Chef Bill
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02-09-2018, 09:26 AM | #49 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
they are also like eggs as its not wise to sit on them either or throw them at others
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02-09-2018, 09:28 AM | #50 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
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02-09-2018, 02:52 PM | #51 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
My delinquent Friends shot one over the block at a 45 Degree angle, hope it didn't hit anyone! If it did, they'd call him "MR. POTATO HEAD"---Remember those? Bill Hungry
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02-09-2018, 04:30 PM | #52 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I remember when manufacturers changed beer & pop cans from the straight walled design they had. I was crestfallen. Oh no! This meant that the tennis ball cannon were no longer practical from easily sourced neighborhood materials. For those who didn't grow up with them, they were a simple device. 7 or 8 cans had both ends removed and joined with duct tape (black hockey tape was traditional) one can on the bottom left intact, with a small hole in the bottom as a touch off. Lighter fluid (or hair spray?) was propellant of choice. A tennis ball was the perfect diameter.
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02-10-2018, 10:22 AM | #53 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I hate to drag this enlightening discussion back on topic, but while browsing old posts I ran across one from Jan. 31, 2107 started by smooth one. I tried to post a link, but can't figure out how.
It runs contrary to some of the earlier info in this thread. I find it hard to believe that things have changed in 12 months. |
02-10-2018, 05:46 PM | #54 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
You might try jan 31, 2007
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02-10-2018, 06:08 PM | #55 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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02-10-2018, 06:09 PM | #56 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
Charlie Stephens |
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02-13-2018, 10:49 PM | #57 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
George, My fat fingers sometime type faster than I think they should. Correct date for the old thread is Jan. 31, 2017 If I was looking for a thread from Jan 31, 2107, I'd have to replace the dead battery in my time machine and I know an 8 volt wouldn't do the trick!
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02-14-2018, 11:13 AM | #58 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Early in the post there was a statement that they could not covert to 12V due to a 6 volt coil. Coils do not care much about voltage.
Ohms is what is important. I am 12V and use the following: An old coil 1.4 ohms using an external resistor no problems. If I run a new coil I would run a 3 ohm coil and no resistor on a 12 V system. 8 Volt system I would stay with the 6 volt 1.4 coil and no resistor. I use to use an 8 V battery in an old Chris Craft 6cy flathead. 6 volts was a real strain to turn over that bad boy. Remember the lower the ohms the higher the voltage output. |
02-14-2018, 11:09 PM | #59 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Exactly ! Though i'm not recommending an 8 volt battery , A model A generator will charge an 8 volt battery . The thing is , if you allready have a nurex internal voltage regulator that takes the place of the third brush installed in the generator , it will only charge a 6 volt battery . Then theres the thing about the bulbs . An 8 volt battery, though it can be made to work , is just not practical for the model A . For a more powerfull electrical system, the 12 volt battery is practical . Positive ground works good for me . If the 12 volt battery is connected positive ground , no wires will need to be changed . The original ammeter will work perfectly . If you take a notion to change back to 6 volt , all that will be necessare is remove the resistor and replace the six volt battery . Just to make this clear , I'm not tring to convince anybody to do anything .This is just for anyone that is interested in practical possibilities .
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02-15-2018, 07:38 PM | #60 | |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Quote:
For the last couple decades I too have used 8 volt batteries in a 1946 Chris Craft 17 foot runabout that we've had for about 40 years. Works great. I changed to a solid state cut-out switch a few years ago. That was another worthwhile upgrade. No more sticking contacts to drain the battery when the engine was not running. |
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02-17-2018, 05:26 PM | #61 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I thought it was great years ago when I saw Farm & Fleet had 8 volt batteries and so my touring friend and I both put them in our cars. The only problem we had was burning out bulbs. If we were running down the road and turned on the lights we blew some bulbs. We didn't run the 8 volt battery very long. Tired of putting bulbs in. Just my experience.
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02-18-2018, 11:48 AM | #62 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
If your 6 volt system has been totaly checked out, such as: Generater output(a little over 6 volts,all electrical connections (batt. connections, must be snug, ground cable and safety fuse if you are using one?,) naturaly good 6v. battery. let use know how you make out, good luck. 8 volt batterys creat mor problems than they cure (my opinion only).
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02-18-2018, 09:23 PM | #63 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
Tom, an actual electrician I gather, came closest to answering the original question: Why does more volts require fewer amps? I'll add my 2-cents worth.
Water flow/pressure is a common analogy used to explain electricity for folks who are are uncomfortable thinking about electrons and dealing with units of energy, etc.: Amps would be like the amount of water going over a water fall, while volts is like the height (or pressure) of the water fall. The amount of work the water fall can do for you depends on the combination: the more height you have, the less flow you need, and vice-versa. In reality, amps is a measure of how much charge (such as electrons in wires) moves past a point in a second, and volts is the difference in energy per charge that the electrons have after traveling between two locations (such as battery terminals). The units of charge and energy involve funny words like coulombs and ergs, and there's no need to go into them here. The point is, just as the amount of gravitational work you can get out of a waterfall depends on both the height and flow of the water fall, the amount of electrical work you can get out of a battery depends on both the voltage and amperage of the battery. And, thus, for example, the wiring in a 12V system doesn't have to be as heavy as in a 6v because only half as many electrons are going to have to make the journey from one terminal to the other to release the same amount of energy and do the same amount of work. By the way, you might have noticed the key word, DIFFERENCE, in the definition of voltage: There is no such thing as the absolute voltage at some point; it always must be measured relative to the energy the electrons would have at some other point. Last edited by steve s; 02-18-2018 at 09:53 PM. |
02-19-2018, 08:36 AM | #64 |
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I never had a problem starting the A,anywhere from 10 deg. on up.locate your problem or problems and rectify them,no bandaid 8 volt battery!
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02-19-2018, 10:02 AM | #65 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: upstate NY near Mass border
Posts: 789
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Re: 8 volt battery question
I found out with my 53 Jeep that when you have an 8v Battery and are 2 miles from home in the middle of the night, the headlights going out can be concerning. Jack
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02-19-2018, 11:12 AM | #66 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kalamazoo
Posts: 1,656
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Re: 8 volt battery question
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