Columbia vs Mitchell overdrive

[bobH]

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

Maybe not the most practical option, but one worth discussing to muddy the water a bit is the Borg Warner overdrive. Lloyd and probably others used to mount them in the torque tube like the Mitchell and they can be electrically operated from the driver's seat. Like the Columbia you still have some of the inherent drawbacks of an old design and probably a less rugged unit. But if you can find one or have the machinery to build your own it might be a very cost effective alternative.

And, another one that used to be very common... Volvo Laycock de Normanville. Exceptionally simple to use. Common in lower-powered old Fords (and others) Not sure if it would stand up to a real strong engine and heavy foot. In days long gone by, I've actually used both the Borg Warner, and the Volvo. Both were good at the time. Given a choice of these two, I'd probably try to find a BW. Opinion...

[jake197000]

i put a toggle switch in so i can turn off the columbia so it doesnt down shift every time i push in the clutch

[danliveshere]

If you’re getting a quote from John that’s great. The comments about the Columbia being fragile is a little misleading. The fragile components are now overcome with a “bulletproof “ rebuild with new design on some key components.

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by jake197000

i put a toggle switch in so i can turn off the columbia so it doesnt down shift every time i push in the clutch

If you leave it engaged, at least with my 37-41 unit; it will not disengage with the clutch is released.


Glenn

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by dean333

Thanks Bill. I’m waiting for quotes from John Connelly and Mitchell Mfg.

In my opinion the Columbia is the way to go. We have one in our 40 and it is a wonderful thing. I have installed over 15 Mitchells in Model A’s for folks and my own and I love them in A’s. However, the v8 applicable years the Columbia is the smoother better choice. If you don’t like the early controls the 40 style work great with the small pull out cable to operate the changer on the steering box.

I recently had my first encounter with a Mitchell cable unit and it is very cumbersome compared to the Columbia. I would most definitely prefer the Columbia over that setup. I agree with bluecar that the columbias when Bullet proofed and all rebuilt well along with the rear axle is very solid. I’ve put mine through some inopportune rough times and it had done well. It is a super highway cruiser. I have Mitchell’s in my Model A’s and Columbia’s in the 40 and will have one in my 48 when completed. Can’t imagine not having the overdrives.

Yes Columbia cores cost a bit and it is also to redo one but it is absolutely worth it. John Connelly does stellar work and is a blessing to those of us that have them. Thanks goodness to all those that put their time effort and talent into doing the specialty things like them. Steve and Cindy Mitchell are awesome as well.
I just prefer them as plan B for the v8’s.
Today was “get out and drive your v8 “ day so we just got back from a great evening cruise.
Happy V8 motoring!
Larry

[petehoovie]

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[QUOTE=Today was “get out and drive your v8 “ day so we just got back from a great evening cruise.
Happy V8 motoring!
Larry[/QUOTE]

[cas3]

I think thats good advise from Larry

[larrys40]

Pete,
Thanks for doing what I couldn’t to my photo of the 40. You made it look great.
Many thanks !5
Larry

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by JWL

There is no comparison when a robust OD is important. The Columbia is fragile and requires operators with a soft touch. The Mitchell can handle substantial abuse.

yup they tested them in a chebby 1 ton truck with a 454

[38 coupe]

The Mitchell auxiliary transmissions units for 1 ton and motorhome use were a different and earlier (and much larger) product. The Mitchell gear splitter was first offered for Model As.


That said, the Mitchell gear splitting is still much stronger than the Columbia by basic design. The Columbia planetary setup has to deal with the torque multiplication from the ring and pinion gears while the Mitchell unit doesn't.

[Jim Hamilton]

Originally Posted by blucar

I have driven my '36 over 90K in the seventy years I have owned the car, the only problem I have ever had with the Columbia was the failure of a brass spacer within the unit that caused the right axle to briefly seize.

I’m new here, hope it’s ok to revive an old thread!
I’m thinking about calling John Connelly to order a bulletproofed Columbia. I’ve been researching options for my stock ‘46 Ford coupe for about a month now. I’ve considered Gear Vendors, Mitchell, Borg Warner and the Columbia. I’m leaning towards the Columbia because of being a Ford option, not having to modify the torque tube or floor.
I’d like to know if I were to build a fairly hot Flathead, would the bulletproofed Columbia hold up to stresses like maybe weekends at the Newport Hill Climb and an occasional moderate blowing the carbon out from a stoplight?
I’ve read here of a couple of instances of a brass spacer failure. I’ve got a parts list and an exploded view from John Connelly, can someone tell me exactly what the brass spacer is?

[blucar]

I am not completely sure what the purpose of the brass cone shaped "thrust washer" between the inner left axle end and the Columbia gear assembly is for. I do know that the one that failed in my Columbia was badly 'galled" with several high ridges that reduced the clearance in the gear set.
I was on a trip from Vegas to Salt Lake City, a distance of over 400 miles, I was cruising in OD at about the mid point when the right axle locked up putting me in a very hair raising skid. Fortunately the desert was quite flat with minimal barrow pit, so i was able to keep the car under control.. Amen for up-graded '47-48 suspension under the car.
After the car came to a stop off of the road I checked it over, everything appeared to be OK so I slowly continued on towards SLC. I did not engage the Columbia into OD during the balance of the trip to SLC.
I was in SLC for three weeks, then returned to Vegas. I was reluctant to engage the OD, keeping the MPH's down to 55/60.
When I got back to Vegas we pulled the Columbia apart, finding the problem of the chewed up spacer, everything else in the unit was fine, Upon close investigation it appeared that the spacer had been put in backwards, there bye reducing the correct spacing of the gears.
I was able to secure a new spacer from the local Vegas Mercury Dealer, who at the time had a very large stock of Columbia parts.
As a foote note: This event happened in April of 1956, I had gone to SLC to go to work for a Company, the situation did not work out so shortly after I returned to Vegas, we moved to Los Angeles.

[Jim Hamilton]

Thanks Bill, glad you didn’t get hurt or hurt the Ford!
I read a post somewhere that I think was from you about drag racing. If the Columbia is left in direct, out of overdrive, is it safe to say it can handle a hot Flathead in a heavier ‘46 even if it gets fair traction?

Edit, I found it, it was post #20 in this thread from you!
Was this a stock Columbia handling that hot Flatty?

[slowforty]

Congratulations Mr bluecar for your extended owner ship.

My opinion is An OD costs a lot of money and time. I have a basically stock 40 that i use all the time. All year long. I thought about an OD improvement but if I cant put an extra 20 bucks worth of gas in my car in order to drive it. I should sell it. And I drive both my cars at least 2000 a year each.

[Jim Hamilton]

Yeah, it seems all of these overdrive setups are expensive. It’s probably true that my estimation of around $4500 could buy a lot of gas. I prefer to drive this on old state highways for the scenery and the lower speed limits. But even at 55 mph and a stock 3.78 rear gear, stock tire size, the engine is spinning a bit more than I like. I’d also like the option of being able to use interstates and be able to run around 70 without trouble.
I’ve been saving up for quite a while for this, if it works the way I expect, I think I’ll be satisfied with the investment.
It’s interesting that you drive yours year round. Do you do anything special to deal with road salt? Here in Indy they dump a lot of brine and salt. Even when roads get plowed and dry off, they’re all white and powdery. If there’s a way to safely enjoy these cars during the winter I’d do it.

[blucar]

Originally Posted by Jim Hamilton

Thanks Bill, glad you didn’t get hurt or hurt the Ford!
I read a post somewhere that I think was from you about drag racing. If the Columbia is left in direct, out of overdrive, is it safe to say it can handle a hot Flathead in a heavier ‘46 even if it gets fair traction?

Edit, I found it, it was post #20 in this thread from you!
Was this a stock Columbia handling that hot Flatty?

As I have stated in many of my contributions to Columbia Treads here on the Barn, the Columbia under my car is a '47-48 Columbia unit bolted to the stock '36 3.78 banjo assembly with '47-48 axles and axle assemblies.
The shift controls are '47-48 electric over vacuum which provides very smooth, quick shifting.
My late wife really enjoyed driving "Henry" she had no problems using the Columbia, even with the left hand column shift: Another of the many modifications that I made to Henry over the years.

I had my car weighed in 1956 to see just how much it weighted. It weighted a little over 3,200 lb's.. It is a Deluxe car with radio, heater, plus about every Ford accessory in the book.
For the first ten year plus years I had my '36 I used it for daily transportation, I have driven the car through the majority of the eleven Western States, under every weather condition there is, heat, snow and subzero temps, rural roads and Los Angeles traffic.

[Jim Hamilton]

Sounds like a beefed up Columbia should live with a stout Flathead as long as there isn’t any seriously hard launching, reserve OD for 50+ MPH. Keep an eye out for leaks, check the oil, maybe every year or two take the unit off the diff for an inspection.

[highbeams]

There is! Move to Southern California as I did - from Wisconsin. You'll never be mindful of road salt again. PLUS, the Calif. weather is a daily gift! You'll NEVER regret it!

highbeams -

[Jim Hamilton]

Originally Posted by highbeams

There is! Move to Southern California as I did - from Wisconsin. You'll never be mindful of road salt again. PLUS, the Calif. weather is a daily gift! You'll NEVER regret it!

highbeams -

The weather would be something to think about, but if I made a major move it’d probably be Florida. I’m 58 and the way Indy is degrading I don’t see me staying here after retirement. Things aren’t anywhere near good here.
I thought maybe Slowforty had a certain way of dealing with the road salt other than constant washing.

[glennpm]

I have a Columbia in my 32 roadster and love it. I use it all the time 35-40MPH and up. It is a pleasure and in my opinion, period correct. I don't like modifying the frame or torque tube etc.

Glenn