The Ford Barn

cooke · 03-24-2013, 09:56 AM

This is my first model A and I am just now starting to drive it more. The car runs great however when I am doing 40-50moh and come across even a mild hump in the road the car wants to (and does) dart to the left or right. I checked the wishbone and the ball looks new and the nuts are tight, no sloppiness. Is this just normal??

Tom Wesenberg · 03-24-2013, 10:01 AM

How much play in the steering? It is somewhat normal if you don't have working shocks, and I find the narrow tires are more prone to pulling right or left when driving over ruts or worn gooves in the road. By groove I mean the low spots caused by heavy truck traffic.

cooke · 03-24-2013, 10:11 AM

Tom,, no play in the steering, if I turn the steering wheel at all the wheels turn L or R. thanks for the reply.

pat in Santa Cruz · 03-24-2013, 10:14 AM

First, in checking the wishbone, is it the type with the rubber ball, which has a cast iron lower cap that is tightened against the upper cap, or is it the Ford type, which should have 2 springs held in place with cotter pins? The latter type is better if its in good condition. The rubber ball type works ok when the ball is new, but the oil that (intentionally) drips from the transmission to lubricate the ball rots the rubber, then the steering gets really bad. I far prefer the original Ford design. On the original type radius ball, there should be about 1/8th inch space between the top cup and the lower cup. If not, the cups and/or ball are worn. The nuts are tightened against the spacer ( found within the spring) and then backed off one castle and cottered in place. If thats all good, look at the spring shackles, perches or kingpins for looseness. Check your pittman arm to ensure it is tight against the sector shaft. Check the steering box to ensure it is tight against the frame. Check wheel toe in, to see if its not toed out. Check wheel bearings..they should only be ever so slightly more loose than tight. In most cases with steering trouble, it is a combination of several small faults in the steering system that add up to a big one.

P.S. · 03-24-2013, 11:14 AM

My guess is going to be toe-in or kingpins at issue here.

cooke · 03-24-2013, 11:29 AM

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I am going out now to check toe in, I hope that's it, I will let you know, thanks

RichPA · 03-24-2013, 11:47 AM

Mine was much better after lubing the front and rear spring leaves, huge improvement and inexpensive.

Hicktick · 03-24-2013, 11:57 AM

I think the best thing for a new owner to do is join a local club to get help with problems like this .

You dont want to just throw parts at it .

Give your location and someone will be glad to help you check your front end .

cooke · 03-24-2013, 01:09 PM

I just checked the toe in and it was 1/2 toe in, so I adjusted it to 1/16 seems better. Would too much toe in cause this?? Also I noticed when I put the chalk line on the tire that the tire had some high and low spots, they are bias ply dated 1971 I think that might be part of the problem

I am in Higganum, CT and have someone who can look at it and drive it but not for a while. Anyone else who would like to come for a test ride be my guest and PM me. It would be good to get someone very familiar with these to give me some idea of what is "normal". I have had other 1930s cars but no A's.
Thanks,Martin

Milton · 03-24-2013, 01:33 PM

Got shocks? Are they full and adjusted? Sounds like bump steer and since you adjusted the toe-in you may have already corrected the problem. Shocks will help attenuate bump steer but tie rod adjustment is the cure barring any mechanical defects.

Bill in SoCal · 03-24-2013, 01:34 PM

Please do not drive vary fast on those tires. OK for moving the car around at home - very dangerous on the road. Bill

cooke · 03-24-2013, 01:41 PM

The shocks are rebuilt about two years ago and are full and seem to be working great.

I agree on the tires Bill SoCal, what is the best deal on radials and from who and should I use tubes with them?

Thanks

1931 flamingo · 03-24-2013, 01:48 PM

PM sent
Paul in CT

hardtimes · 03-24-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooke

I just checked the toe in and it was 1/2 toe in, so I adjusted it to 1/16 seems better. Would too much toe in cause this?? Also I noticed when I put the chalk line on the tire that the tire had some high and low spots, they are bias ply dated 1971 I think that might be part of the problem

I am in Higganum, CT and have someone who can look at it and drive it but not for a while. Anyone else who would like to come for a test ride be my guest and PM me. It would be good to get someone very familiar with these to give me some idea of what is "normal". I have had other 1930s cars but no A's.
Thanks,Martin

Hey cooke,
1971....

! I know that model a people are 'frugal', but...come on

!!
Since you've checked the toe in and 'corrected' it with those tires, all should be well,eh

.
Until you get some tires for the front, at least, I'll just add...make sure everything is TIGHT as should be...especially the steering box to frame fasteners...then go to bottom of pitman and work forward to check ALL ball shape/adjustment/lube.

mmindling · 03-24-2013, 02:08 PM

Hi Cooke,

I had the same problem going over bumps, setting up a whiplash effect (or more correctly a hunting effect) in the front end.

Checked all and everything was tight, including working shocks.

Put on brand new Firestone original style tires. Completely eliminated the issue. The old tires were just that - OLD, and very hardened.

Hope this helps.

Martin Mindling Watertown, Ohio

cooke · 03-24-2013, 05:30 PM

HardTimes,

I too was a bit shocked when I looked at the tires closely to see the date, yikes. I bought the car and new the tires were older, the seller had receipts for new tubes and flaps but kept the old (really old) tires. I am running the original Ford 19 inch rims will radial tires mount ok??

V4F · 03-24-2013, 05:44 PM

just be careful until you get used to it !!

Aok · 03-24-2013, 05:48 PM

I had some vibration last year and found the nuts where the steering box mounts to the frame loose not loose like falling off just need a few turns to fully tighten

columbiA · 03-24-2013, 10:27 PM

Get rid of the 40+ year old tires-just an accident waiting to happen.Most tires back then had nylon cords which would flat spot when parked for a length of time.Bite the bullet & get some Goodyear or Firestone tires.I like the Firestones as they are a bit taller than other makes for a slight O D effect.I have never seen the need for radials on an A.Make sure the wish bone has no side to side movement at ball & use original style ball kit.

P.S. · 03-24-2013, 11:16 PM

Columbia- He has Firestones on it now. They were not made with nylon cord back then either.

I have a 1970 vintage set of Firestones and they are in excellent condition. Put them on the car to try and wear them out. Car drives just fine.

As long as the sidewalls aren't cracked and you have plenty of tread, go for it!

03-24-2013, 09:56 AM	#1
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	driving question from new owner This is my first model A and I am just now starting to drive it more. The car runs great however when I am doing 40-50moh and come across even a mild hump in the road the car wants to (and does) dart to the left or right. I checked the wishbone and the ball looks new and the nuts are tight, no sloppiness. Is this just normal??

03-24-2013, 10:01 AM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: driving question from new owner How much play in the steering? It is somewhat normal if you don't have working shocks, and I find the narrow tires are more prone to pulling right or left when driving over ruts or worn gooves in the road. By groove I mean the low spots caused by heavy truck traffic.

03-24-2013, 10:11 AM	#3
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	Re: driving question from new owner Tom,, no play in the steering, if I turn the steering wheel at all the wheels turn L or R. thanks for the reply.

03-24-2013, 10:14 AM	#4
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: driving question from new owner First, in checking the wishbone, is it the type with the rubber ball, which has a cast iron lower cap that is tightened against the upper cap, or is it the Ford type, which should have 2 springs held in place with cotter pins? The latter type is better if its in good condition. The rubber ball type works ok when the ball is new, but the oil that (intentionally) drips from the transmission to lubricate the ball rots the rubber, then the steering gets really bad. I far prefer the original Ford design. On the original type radius ball, there should be about 1/8th inch space between the top cup and the lower cup. If not, the cups and/or ball are worn. The nuts are tightened against the spacer ( found within the spring) and then backed off one castle and cottered in place. If thats all good, look at the spring shackles, perches or kingpins for looseness. Check your pittman arm to ensure it is tight against the sector shaft. Check the steering box to ensure it is tight against the frame. Check wheel toe in, to see if its not toed out. Check wheel bearings..they should only be ever so slightly more loose than tight. In most cases with steering trouble, it is a combination of several small faults in the steering system that add up to a big one.

03-24-2013, 11:14 AM	#5
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,688	Re: driving question from new owner My guess is going to be toe-in or kingpins at issue here.

03-24-2013, 11:29 AM	#6
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	Re: driving question from new owner Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I am going out now to check toe in, I hope that's it, I will let you know, thanks

03-24-2013, 11:47 AM	#7
RichPA Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: rowland PA Posts: 186	Re: driving question from new owner Mine was much better after lubing the front and rear spring leaves, huge improvement and inexpensive.

03-24-2013, 11:57 AM	#8
Hicktick Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Hickory Tavern , SC Posts: 422	Re: driving question from new owner I think the best thing for a new owner to do is join a local club to get help with problems like this . You dont want to just throw parts at it . Give your location and someone will be glad to help you check your front end .

03-24-2013, 01:09 PM	#9
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	Re: driving question from new owner I just checked the toe in and it was 1/2 toe in, so I adjusted it to 1/16 seems better. Would too much toe in cause this?? Also I noticed when I put the chalk line on the tire that the tire had some high and low spots, they are bias ply dated 1971 I think that might be part of the problem I am in Higganum, CT and have someone who can look at it and drive it but not for a while. Anyone else who would like to come for a test ride be my guest and PM me. It would be good to get someone very familiar with these to give me some idea of what is "normal". I have had other 1930s cars but no A's. Thanks,Martin

03-24-2013, 01:33 PM	#10
Milton Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 837	Re: driving question from new owner Got shocks? Are they full and adjusted? Sounds like bump steer and since you adjusted the toe-in you may have already corrected the problem. Shocks will help attenuate bump steer but tie rod adjustment is the cure barring any mechanical defects. Last edited by Milton; 03-24-2013 at 02:32 PM.

03-24-2013, 01:34 PM	#11
Bill in SoCal Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Claremont, CA 91711 Posts: 244	Re: driving question from new owner Please do not drive vary fast on those tires. OK for moving the car around at home - very dangerous on the road. Bill

03-24-2013, 01:41 PM	#12
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	Re: driving question from new owner The shocks are rebuilt about two years ago and are full and seem to be working great. I agree on the tires Bill SoCal, what is the best deal on radials and from who and should I use tubes with them? Thanks

03-24-2013, 01:48 PM	#13
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: driving question from new owner PM sent Paul in CT

03-24-2013, 02:08 PM	#15
mmindling Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: SouthEast Ohio Posts: 125	Re: driving question from new owner Hi Cooke, I had the same problem going over bumps, setting up a whiplash effect (or more correctly a hunting effect) in the front end. Checked all and everything was tight, including working shocks. Put on brand new Firestone original style tires. Completely eliminated the issue. The old tires were just that - OLD, and very hardened. Hope this helps. Martin Mindling Watertown, Ohio

03-24-2013, 05:30 PM	#16
cooke Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Higganum, CT Posts: 63	Re: driving question from new owner HardTimes, I too was a bit shocked when I looked at the tires closely to see the date, yikes. I bought the car and new the tires were older, the seller had receipts for new tubes and flaps but kept the old (really old) tires. I am running the original Ford 19 inch rims will radial tires mount ok??

03-24-2013, 05:44 PM	#17
V4F Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ca. Posts: 2,522	Re: driving question from new owner just be careful until you get used to it !! __________________ V4f

03-24-2013, 05:48 PM	#18
Aok Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Tx Posts: 502	Re: driving question from new owner I had some vibration last year and found the nuts where the steering box mounts to the frame loose not loose like falling off just need a few turns to fully tighten

03-24-2013, 10:27 PM	#19
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: driving question from new owner Get rid of the 40+ year old tires-just an accident waiting to happen.Most tires back then had nylon cords which would flat spot when parked for a length of time.Bite the bullet & get some Goodyear or Firestone tires.I like the Firestones as they are a bit taller than other makes for a slight O D effect.I have never seen the need for radials on an A.Make sure the wish bone has no side to side movement at ball & use original style ball kit.

03-24-2013, 11:16 PM	#20
P.S. Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: California Posts: 1,688	Re: driving question from new owner Columbia- He has Firestones on it now. They were not made with nylon cord back then either. I have a 1970 vintage set of Firestones and they are in excellent condition. Put them on the car to try and wear them out. Car drives just fine. As long as the sidewalls aren't cracked and you have plenty of tread, go for it!