problem to start

[56yblock]

hello everybody,
my car start well when the engine cold but it has difficult when engine it's hot, i've changed the complete ignition kit and rebuild the carburetor , does anyone knows where the problem come from ?
thanks for help me

[ponymare]

Is it 6 or 12 volt, either case could be bad or corrorded battery cables, timing could be a little fast, or the starter bushings are worn making it drag more when hot.

[darrell]

a lot of times it can be a dragging starter.there was a gizmo ill call it that you held on the starter cable when the engine was turning over to check draw.im sure they are still around.

[Dobie Gillis]

Originally Posted by darrell

a lot of times it can be a dragging starter.there was a gizmo ill call it that you held on the starter cable when the engine was turning over to check draw.im sure they are still around.

It's called a clamp meter. Some general garages would have one, and certainly all auto electric shops would.

[Daves55Sedan]

I'm guessing you've got a recently made chinese ignition condenser in the distributor? Those are notorious for failing after the engine warms up to normal operating temp, but you can come back later to start after it cools off.
If you can get a NAPA Echlin heavy duty condenser .21-.25 mfds capacity, that might be your best option to remedy failed condenser, but no guarantees. So far I havent had any problems. Dont buy any from the repro guys, they all come from china and are guaranteed waste of money.
Old starter motors can have enough wear in the brass armature bushings to cause difficulty in starting. Starter brushes may be worn or commutator dirty/oily.
Check to make sure ground connections between starter and engine are CLEAN and tight. I actually ran a #6 guage stranded copper wire from engine block to the top starter mounting bolt to help guarantee good ground. The engine bolt is the same one that the battery ground cable connects to (at the dipstick tube mounting bolt). So it's practically directly connected to battery ground.

[56yblock]

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yes i have a repro condenser,
i've found a 1957 motorcraft ignition kit N.O.S., points, condenser, rotor, i'll replaced it
the starter works fine i have no problem with it.

[wellcraft17]

Ethanol gas will boil over into the Venturi dumping raw gas into the intake manifold when a hot engine is turned off thus making for a hard/difficult start. If that’s causing your issue find some non ethanol gas and or lower the fuel level in the carb float bowl.

[dmsfrr]

The choke may need adjusting??? To a slightly richer setting?
My 292 started easily hot or cold, but the main jets were a few sizes too large. After changing the main jets I had to set the choke very slightly richer, to more easily start & idle the engine when it was still warm after driving, but not yet cold.
.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by 56yblock

yes i have a repro condenser,
i've found a 1957 motorcraft ignition kit N.O.S., points, condenser, rotor, i'll replaced it.

If you still have the original load-o-matic distributor, the '57 points, condenser and rotor will not fit, and a '57 and later distributor will not work properly with the original ECG 2-bbl carburator without modifications.
The '54 thru '56 V8 ignition points, condenser and rotor are interchangable.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

If you still have the original load-o-matic distributor, the '57 points, condenser and rotor will not fit, and a '57 and later distributor will not work properly with the original ECG 2-bbl carburator without modifications.
The '54 thru '56 V8 ignition points, condenser and rotor are interchangable.

56yblock,
The easy to spot visual difference in internal hardware between the '56 and earlier Loadomatic distributors (photo 1)
and the '57 to '59 version (photo 2).
,

[56yblock]

i have this one, 1957 ignition distributor, the car start and runs good before

[Daves55Sedan]

Okay that is a '57 or later distributor with the correct points and condenser (although, I don't like that short condenser wire). Those cheaters can't give you an extra 1/4" of wire?
How the heck are you using this with a 2-bbl ECG carb? Have you made modifications to the carb to work with the mechanical advance distributor? Or did you change intake manifold to accept '57 or later carb?

[56yblock]

when i bought this car , it was like this , i don't know if it was modification or stock maybe the old owner changed the engine for a 57 ? what is the kind of modification for the carburetor ? i post few pics of the carburetor, is there any something wrong ?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 56yblock

when i bought this car , it was like this , i don't know if it was modification or stock maybe the old owner changed the engine for a 57 ? . . .

Here is a link to a chart where you can look up the engine block number...
http://ford-y-block.com/Block%20identification.htm

[Daves55Sedan]

If that is what you still have on the engine, it is a factory 1956 2-bbl intake manifold with original ECG style carburator. I believe that in order to make this carb work properly with the '57 mechanical advance distributor is first to remove the spark control valve from the back of the carb and replace with a blank plug, then you need to modify vacuum signal from carb to distributor vacuum advance. I do not know the procedure, but others in this forum have made the modification.
Another way to make the engine run properly using the '57 and later distributor is to get a good used '57 intake manifold with carburator and the associated gas pedal linkage and bellcrank.

[56yblock]

sorry i don't understand the modification that you say, i received today my distributor tune up kit N.O.S. i post the pics and i'll bough a new spark plugs ( champion 870 ) and motorcraft distributor cap N.O.S. , i hope it will starts better...

[Dobie Gillis]

The tune up kit won't help much with the carburetor and distributor combination you have, they are not compatible with each other. You need to either go back to the original 1956 distributor (not recommended) or go to a carburetor that is compatible with the 1957 distributor. I don't know what 2 barrel carburetors will work but someone on this forum surely will know.

[56yblock]

the car starts and runs good before has problems about the fuel pump and the ignition distributor, i have this car since 4 years ago, it always works good ,i've rebuild the carburetor with a kit N.O.S. now i must to found a new fuel pump or rebuild the old, because i've put a supermarket repro and i don't like it

[40cpe]

The vacuum advance should not affect starting and the incompatible carb/dist will seem to run good if in good shape, especially if one hasn't experienced a properly operating system. The centrifugal distributor will supply advance to the ignition but the engine will suffer in fuel mileage in light load conditions.

[scicala]

Listen to 40cpe.

Sal

[56yblock]

i consume about 18 liter for 100 kms do you think it's too much?

[Dobie Gillis]

That works out to about 13 miles per gallon, not spectacular. My Mercury with a mostly stock 292 and 500 cfm 4 barrel gets in the upper teens/low 20s on the highway in overdrive. I think you could improve your fuel consumption with the proper carburetor. This somewhat depends on the type of driving you do. City driving consumes more fuel.

[Daves55Sedan]

Ted Eaton has a modification for using 4-bbl teapot carb with '57 and later mechanical advance distributor, but I never heard of anybody offering a proven fix for modifying ECG 2-bbl "bugsprayer" type carb to use with mechanical advance.
Don't even bother trying to read Ted's article. The 4-bbl teapot is a complicated animal and completely different from the 2-bbl carbs.
Your options to get the engine operating properly:
1) Keep ECG carb and go back to using original Load-o-matic distributor.
2) Keep the '57 or later distributor and replace your intake manifold/carburator and associated linkage with a '57 or later Y-block setup.
3) Keep both your carb and dizzy and find a modification that will operate the advance in the dizzy properly. (unknown)

[Daves55Sedan]

BTW, replacement vacuum cans for the old load-o-matic distributors have not been offered by repro parts suppliers the last few years, so if that is a problem in your old dizzy, swapping back to the old dizzy is not an option.

[56yblock]

does anyone have a pics of the 57 intake manifold with original linkage carb/distrib?

[Daves55Sedan]

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Originally Posted by 56yblock

does anyone have a pics of the 57 intake manifold with original linkage carb/distrib?

You can use '57 thru '62 Y-block car intake manifolds (272, 292 or 312) or '57 thru '64 Ford Y-block (292) truck intake manifolds.
But if you swap, you must get associated gas linkage & bellcrank as these are different from the '56 ECG setup. I don't have picks of anything newer than '56.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by 56yblock

does anyone have a pics of the 57 intake manifold with original linkage carb/distrib?

With a manual or automatic transmission?
2 barrel carburetor ?
If I remember correctly, the '57+ 2bbl carb to intake manifold bolt pattern is 4 bolts, not 3.

.

[56yblock]

yes i have manual transmission 3 on 3 at the column with 2 barrel carburetor and would to see the 1957 same configuration

[estout81]

56yblock,
Go to Ted Eaton Balancing on the internet and it will show you how to modify your carburetor for your distributor. Hope this helps.

[wellcraft17]

Are there any Noticeable, significant gains by modifying the carb per Ted Eatons instructions. anyone on here have done the modifications and can tell us what improvements they realized. The reason I ask is my 56 292 with 2bbl ecg carb and post 57 dizzy has been working flawlessly for the past 38 yrs. I get around 15-16 mpg with an o/d transmission and 3.73 rear end. Not sure if that’s good or bad but it’s what it is. I have a 56 f100.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by estout81

56yblock,
Go to Ted Eaton Balancing on the internet and it will show you how to modify your carburetor for your distributor. Hope this helps.

Here is a link to the procedure for modifying the older 2 bbl carburetors...
https://www.eatonbalancing.com/2010/...-distributors/

Originally Posted by wellcraft17

Are there any Noticeable, significant gains by modifying the carb per Ted Eatons instructions. anyone on here have done the modifications and can tell us what improvements they realized. The reason I ask is my 56 292 with 2bbl ecg carb and post 57 dizzy has been working flawlessly for the past 38 yrs. I get around 15-16 mpg with an o/d transmission and 3.73 rear end. Not sure if that’s good or bad but it’s what it is. I have a 56 f100.

It's my understanding the '57+ distributors advance the ignition timing approx 95+ % based on the centrifugal fly-weights and the vacuum canister function is for 'fine tuning' the timing, giving a slight boost in fuel economy.
.

[56yblock]

i think i have 1957 ford 4,4 l 272 ci y block with original ignition distrib, the old owner has changed the original engine, maybe cause it was break and he keeped the original 1956 intake manifold with load matic 2bbl egc , the car come from ontario canada, the engine original color is blue and the intake manifold is green, it's different color that y blocks that build in usa

[56yblock]

i want to say i have automatic choke not load o matic...

[Dobie Gillis]

The style of choke (manual or automatic) has nothing to do with whether the carburetor is a Loadomatic or not. "Loadomatic" has to do with the special internal passage in the carburetor that would be connected to the vacuum advance diaphragm on the Loadmatic distributor, which is advanced only by vacuum from the carburetor and lacks centrifugal advance weights. Your 1957 distributor has both vacuum and centrifugal advance and is not really compatible with the Loadomatic carburetor as the vacuum signal from the carburetor is too weak for the 1957 distributor.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by wellcraft17

Are there any Noticeable, significant gains by modifying the carb per Ted Eatons instructions. anyone on here have done the modifications and can tell us what improvements they realized. The reason I ask is my 56 292 with 2bbl ecg carb and post 57 dizzy has been working flawlessly for the past 38 yrs. I get around 15-16 mpg with an o/d transmission and 3.73 rear end. Not sure if that’s good or bad but it’s what it is. I have a 56 f100.

If you modify your ECG 6 2 barrel carb per the procedure posted above, using a '57 distributor, you will get even better than 15 - 16 MPG since you will have more spark advance at part throttle light loads, which makes for less throttle opening for the same power.

Sal

[wellcraft17]

Thanks Sal, I’ll have to think about this before I tear into a perfectly working carb and modify it.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56yblock

my car start well when the engine cold but it has difficult when engine it's hot, i've changed the complete ignition kit and rebuild the carburetor , does anyone knows where the problem come from ?
thanks for help me

Originally Posted by wellcraft17

Ethanol gas will boil over into the Venturi dumping raw gas into the intake manifold when a hot engine is turned off thus making for a hard/difficult start. If that’s causing your issue find some non ethanol gas and or lower the fuel level in the carb float bowl.

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

Okay that is a '57 or later distributor with the correct points and condenser

How the heck are you using this with a 2-bbl ECG carb? Have you made modifications to the carb to work with the mechanical advance distributor?

Your CARB is LOAD-O-MATIC as it still has the SPARK CONTROL VALVE mounted (unless the signal was sourced to MANIFOLD VACUUM).



If it starts easily while cold but is difficult to re-start hot, then wellcraft17 is correct. It is called heat soak. Temp rises, the fuel expands and if the pressure is not relieved at the pump check valve, it floods the carb. Ethanol laced gasoline also has a much lower boiling point.

You also have to perform the upgrade Daves55Sedan showed you. The two systems (LOAD-O-MATIC and DUAL ADVANCE} are not compatible.

[Daves55Sedan]

Tell ya another thing you need to do if you are going to keep the ECG carb. Get one of those phenolic spacers to install between intake manifold and carb. You will need another gasket and longer carb mounting studs.
So it goes like this:
New gasket on intake manifold
Phenolic spacer on top of gasket.
New gasket on top of spacer
Carb on top of new gasket.
If you do this, it will help to keep fuel from getting too hot and expanding, possibly end the problem with flooding

[56yblock]

the first time when i rebuilted the carburetor with a kit supermarket it was leaking everywhere, i rebuild again with a n.o.s. kit, it no more leak , the car starts and runs perfect before to change the repro supermarket fuel pump, i think that the problem is here ,i must to be push the pedal gaz to start when the engine is hot when it cold it starts immediatly ....i'll rebuilded the old fuel pump with a n.o.s. kit, and car works like before.....

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by 56yblock

... the first time when i rebuilted the carburetor with a kit supermarket it was leaking everywhere, i rebuild again with a n.o.s. kit, it no more leak , the car starts and runs perfect before to change the repro supermarket fuel pump, i think that the problem is here ,i must to be push the pedal gaz to start when the engine is hot when it cold it starts immediatly ....i'll rebuilded the old fuel pump with a n.o.s. kit, and car works like before.....

Maybe you should perform a pump pressure and volume test. Details are in the manual. Do you have ethanol laced gasoline over there?

Also -

Originally Posted by scicala

(EDITED) Kit's are available at most auto parts stores (Walker, G.P sorensen etc.) but sometimes the power valves are questionable. Also Daytona Carb in Florida has quality kits.

Charlie ny on this forum has good power valves if you want one too.

Also, if your carb is for a '56 272 with automatic choke, I have an NOS carburetor that I freshened with an ethanol resistant pump piston cup and power valve if you are interested.

Sal

Thread Source - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...31#post1931031

Quality of kits are important if gasoline has ethanol.

[wellcraft17]

Sal, FYI, curiosity got the best of me and I modified my ecg today per Teds instructions. Engine runs the same at idle and 70mph. Filled up the gas tank so I guess I’ll check the mpg the Next time I fill up with non ethanol gas And I’ll get back with the results. Thanks for your input.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by wellcraft17

Sal, FYI, curiosity got the best of me and I modified my ecg today per Teds instructions. Engine runs the same at idle and 70mph. Filled up the gas tank so I guess I’ll check the mpg the Next time I fill up with non ethanol gas And I’ll get back with the results. Thanks for your input.

You won't notice any difference at idle or at 70 MPH. The fuel economy increase will be at light loads and steady speeds (manifold vacuum 10" and higher), when the RPM isn't high enough to advance the fly weights in the distributor for full advance. This gives you more spark advance while cruising, compared to just centrifugal advance.
There will not be a dramatic increase in fuel economy, but will be better.

Sal

[wellcraft17]

Update on my mpg, filled up yesterday and calculated the mpg and it’s 15.26. I checked it 10/13/20 before I modified my carb and it was 15mpg. Not a significant gain but it’s a slight gain. I’ll check it again on next fill up. My driving consist of approximately 75% highway, 55-70 mph and 25% around town, 30mph.

[56yblock]

hello guys,
i've replaced the complete distributor ignition kit, take off the china repro, the car starts and runs better,

[KULTULZ]

MADE IN CHINA

So yesterday afternoon (SAT) I go to adjust the rear drum brakes on a 2005 TAURUS. It's bad enough that they are a PIA as they are MAZDA design.

Find a slobbering wheel cylinder. Check NAPA online and they say theirs is USA ([photo shows appearing as WAGNER). The old lady goes in to pick them up, open the box and MADE IN CHINA.

It is getting so you can't beat the new system.

[56sedandelivery]

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isnt everything these days? Expect lot more in the coming years now.

[Dobie Gillis]

Hey, hey! He said he's for "buying American". So it will be American brands made in China.

[KULTULZ]

Well, I finally tricked myself. I thought the NAPA cyls were USA made but only the photo showed USA.