Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

RE: Retorqueing and Fastener Quality: When I ran stock studs and/or the cheaper aftermarket ones, I typically had to heat cycle and retorque 3 - 5 times . . . was just what you had to do to get to a point where the torque values held. (All I really used on performance flatheads are studs). Some of the retorque issues were due to the quality of the nuts and washers (distortion, etc). When I switched to ARP studs, and thicker ARP washers and nuts, it was a completely different situation. After one heat cycle, they will be VERY close to the original torque -- one little "torque tune-up" and I am pretty much ready to go. Another reason I like studs is that I surely prefer to be tightening on the fine threaded end of a stud - with a lot of moly-lube (versus the coarse end with some level of rust in the block, Teflon goop, etc). You get really consistent/smooth fastener rotation and more accurate torque values when you're not trying to screw a coarse-end thread into a cast iron block. Lastly, I want to screw around with the coarse block threads as little as possible - I set the studs, let the Teflon setup and leave them alone. ARP stuff is expensive (no question), but it is surely worth it on a performance flathead build.

I second that

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

RE: Retorqueing and Fastener Quality: When I ran stock studs and/or the cheaper aftermarket ones, I typically had to heat cycle and retorque 3 - 5 times . . . was just what you had to do to get to a point where the torque values held. (All I really used on performance flatheads are studs). Some of the retorque issues were due to the quality of the nuts and washers (distortion, etc). When I switched to ARP studs, and thicker ARP washers and nuts, it was a completely different situation. After one heat cycle, they will be VERY close to the original torque -- one little "torque tune-up" and I am pretty much ready to go. Another reason I like studs is that I surely prefer to be tightening on the fine threaded end of a stud - with a lot of moly-lube (versus the coarse end with some level of rust in the block, Teflon goop, etc). You get really consistent/smooth fastener rotation and more accurate torque values when you're not trying to screw a coarse-end thread into a cast iron block. Lastly, I want to screw around with the coarse block threads as little as possible - I set the studs, let the Teflon setup and leave them alone. ARP stuff is expensive (no question), but it is surely worth it on a performance flathead build.

Proper clamping force (at each stud or bolt) is what we're after here so consistency is key. Now, say we decide 50 ft. lb. is the number to use to get the proper clamping force.
Here's the question: What is the difference in clamping force between a fine threaded stud and a coarse threaded bolt? Do we use a lower setting on the fine thread studs(say 45 ft. lb.) to get the proper clamping force? After all with a shallower "ramp angle" on fine threads, the clamping force should be higher for the same torque reading.
Of course, this is assuming the proper lube is applied, and the block threads are clean and undamaged.

[Ol' Ron]

]You realize that: Having a torque wrench is a modern convenience.]

[Tim Ayers]

Block going to machine shop with torque plate to check if .010+ Sunnen hone will clean it up. I’ll report back once we hear the verdict.

Please understand the sole intent of starting this thread was to provide some education on what these old blocks of capable of.

Many claim you can’t go out to 3 3/8ths on these engines. This block proved to be plenty thick enough to disprove that statement.

Many claim, they'll over heat at that size. I'm certain this motor will also disprove that belief.

I think the take away from all this is many have their own way of rebuilding these motors.

Some are tried and true and some are "cutting edge" per say. In the end, we all make our choices and wind up using whatever methods works best for us.

That said, I feel fortunate that Ronnie took on this project. For those you who haven't been in his shop, once step in you immediately realize you are in a place of someone who lives and breaths flatheads.

I won't give away his "trade secrets", but seeing the 5 main (yes, FIVE main) bearing set up he made for one of his Ardun race motors, I immediately knew I found the right man for the job.

As a wise man once did say, "Keep 'um runnin'!"

[tubman]

I'm constantly amazed at the folks who warn against a 1/8" overbore in an 8BA. Every one I've done had plenty of "meat" after the overbore. I'll bet Tim has room for another hone and re-ring if needed in the future.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by tubman

I'm constantly amazed at the folks who warn against a 1/8" overbore in an 8BA. Every one I've done had plenty of "meat" after the overbore. I'll bet Tim has room for another hone and re-ring if needed in the future.

Yep. If you look at the numbers, it can go .030+, but we want to save some meat for my little guy once this hot rod becomes his.

[GOSFAST]

I wanted to add this info to this post earlier but had forgot about it!

For anyone using ARP stud kits OR bolt kits with their washers, on brand "new" aluminum heads only, you need to "sand" the sides of the washers resting on the head surfaces, in other words, on the sides towards the machined bolt bosses.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This isn't our recommendation, it is straight from ARP. They tell us to use some 60 grit sandpaper (we use 80) to "break" the smooth surfaces. If this isn't done you run the risk of having the wrong Torque (it will be higher) on the fasteners even though you set the Torque wrench correctly!

[Ol' Ron]

My 280 ci engine is an old 276 bored .020" over. Egge makes 20 and 30 over 3 5/16 pistons for just this reason..

[Tim Ayers]

Heard back from shop. Motor needs to go .030+ to clean up the worst taper in one of the holes. It will make a 297 c.i. motor. Sadly, this means it's going to need to go as big as it can. I has hoping to only go .010+ to leave one more clean up for my sons once they own this beast. I guess they'll need to sleeve it once that time comes. Hopefully not any time soon.

So, now we've got to make some choices.

1) Is the cam going to be "big" enough? Right now I plan to use a Potvin 3/8ths. I have a core waiting to go to Pete for a Isky 1007B (which he recommends). I also have access to other full race cams; if needed.

2) Will two 97's feed it enough? Will have to play around with jets and consider going to those new "big" 97's if not enough cfm.

With an aluminum flywheel and a light clutch, this motor will "whap" pretty nicely.

My good friend, Zach Suhr, made the headers/exhaust for this beast. It's 1 3/4" mandrel bent J's into 3ft. of 1 3/4" straight into '36 drive shafts cut in half.

One thing is for sure, you'll hear this old gal coming. Haha.

More to come once things get finalized.

[flatjack9]

I don't like an aluminum flywheel on a street driven car. Much prefer a lightened stock flywheel.

[JSeery]

To me it depends on the vehicle weight, the rear axle ratio/tire combo & and how you want to drive it.

[Dave Castle]

Originally Posted by JSeery

To me it depends on the vehicle weight, the rear axle ratio/tire combo & and how you want to drive it.

And we have the final word !

[flatjack9]

Mine is in a 39 coupe. I have no problem getting going, but tend to get some bucking when slowing down. Just a little annoying. I'm sure the cam has something to do with that. And it is not a real wild cam. I think this would be more pronounced in a light vehicle.

[40cpe]

flatjack, I have a 276" 8BA/L100, stock flywheel in a '38 coupe that was bucking when slowing below 1200 rpm. I stumbled on 0 degree initial timing with no vacuum and it almost completely eliminated the bucking. I set the TDC mark with a dead stop when building the engine, so I'm confident it is correct. I adjusted for total advance and am pleased with how it runs.

[Tim Ayers]

Just ordered the pistons from Ross today. They were the only company that we knew of that offered this size piston with metric rings.

Since the motor is out so big, I wanted to use metric rings to reduce as much drag as possible. For the approx. $225 more than Egge's, I thought this was money well spent.

Only downside is they will take 4 weeks to get.

More to come.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Just ordered the pistons from Ross today. They were the only company that we knew of that offered this size piston with metric rings.

Since the motor is out so big, I wanted to use metric rings to reduce as much drag as possible. For the approx. $225 more than Egge's, I thought this was money well spent.

Only downside is they will take 4 weeks to get.

More to come.

Tim Wiseco will also make them for you with metric rings & are a very nice piston.
Cheers
Tony

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Tim Wiseco will also make them for you with metric rings & are a very nice piston.
Cheers
Tony

Ah, good to know.