The Ford Barn

Dollar Bill · 05-14-2017, 12:43 PM

I'm betting you will find shifter fork or rail problems. You may need T/O bearing but that will not cause inability to select 2nd/3rd gear.

Beauford · 05-14-2017, 01:34 PM

Make sure forks are in the slots

Rick6 · 05-14-2017, 06:33 PM

Here are the pictures of the shifting tower and transmission gear box.

Tom Wesenberg · 05-14-2017, 07:10 PM

I would have someone push and release the clutch pedal several times while you are under the car looking for lost motion due to a crack opening up. It might be a crack in the lever outside or inside the bellhousing. If no cracks are found, then I'd be looking for a clutch disc or pressure plate problem.

RonC · 05-14-2017, 07:51 PM

If it's grinding the clutch is not releasing.

Gunmetal blue2 · 05-14-2017, 07:54 PM

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your shifter fork for 2 and 3 gear may be wore down to the point it won't shift into 2 or 3 in the transmission tower

daveymc29 · 05-14-2017, 08:27 PM

Have you greased the throughout bearing carrier? It may be that it is not sliding freely. I had that problem with my coupe and greasing it made it shift totally into 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Before that i wasn't really into first and if there was a bit of incline the gears just screamed and the car stood still. I could go into 2nd and the car moved fine. Grease the carrier, no harm done if that doesn't cure your problem.

Rick6 · 05-14-2017, 09:06 PM

Pictures of the shifting forks and the ball end of the shift lever. There is a bitof wear on the ball end of the shift lever and on the shifting fork castings where they engage with the shift lever ball. However none of the wear looks bad enough to cause an inability to shift.

Rick6 · 05-14-2017, 09:09 PM

Yes I did grease the throw out bearing, it appears to be sliding without any binding.

Rick6 · 05-14-2017, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonC

If it's grinding the clutch is not releasing.

What would you check within the clutch/pressure plate assembly?

I don't have an engine hoist so would you suggest pulling the rear differential and dropping out the transmission to inspect the clutch and pressure plate assemblies?

Thank you,

Rick

Patrick L. · 05-15-2017, 06:03 AM

Only the pic of the transmitter comes up for me. It seems to look OK.

The idea of having someone work the pedal while you watch the clutch operation is a good one. I was thinking you had done that especially after reply 14. The fact that you can shift from any gear when not moving and being able to shift in first and backward without problems seems to tell me that again the clutch seems OK.

When pulling a transmitter or removing a clutch I pull the rear end. I find it far easier and it won't scratch anything important or pretty.

Rick6 · 05-15-2017, 07:19 AM

Good morning Patrick,

I did have someone in the car working the clutch pedal while I watched the movement. I saw no loss of motion or signs of cracks in the actuator arm external to the the bell housing. I'm not sure how to see inside the bell housing to check the internal actuator arm without pulling the transmission.

The other pics were links as the forum would not let me attach additional images due to a security certificate error.

Here are the links:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oumqtozn14...65357.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fprdxc87fi...65410.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn77aa3nk5...0gear.jpg?dl=0

Rick6 · 05-15-2017, 07:48 AM

Updated reply to Patrick

Good morning Patrick,

I did have someone in the car working the clutch pedal while I watched the movement. I saw no loss of motion or signs of cracks in the actuator arm external to the the bell housing. I'm not sure how to see inside the bell housing to check the internal actuator arm without pulling the transmission.

The high gear has quite a bit of wear on the left (rearward edge) see third image link below. Is that causing the inability to shift into 2nd/3rd gear. What I don't understand is many have said its not the clutch if I can shift into 1st/reverse. But others have said if it grinds the clutch is not disengaging fully and that is the problem.

There is some binding of the shift finger for the high gear on the rail that the finger slides on. The low and reverse finger slides easily on its rail. Not sure this is the problem as I can shift through all the gears with the clutch disengaged with or without the engine running at a stop. Any forward movement and we get a lot of grinding until you can get the gears to stop spinning and then you can engage 2nd and 3rd gears. But the car is not moving so it does no good.

The other pics were links as the forum would not let me attach additional images due to a security certificate error.

Here are the links:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oumqtozn14...65357.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fprdxc87fi...65410.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn77aa3nk5...0gear.jpg?dl=0

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-15-2017, 07:58 AM

Rick6,
Kinda' ODD situation! By the way, you said you ran out of clutch adjustment. The suppliers sell an adjustable link rod that doesn't require removing the clevis pin, it adjusts, using LOCK nuts & I "think" it has a LONGER range of adjustment???
Bill W.

Keith True · 05-15-2017, 07:59 AM

I'm a little confused now.You said you greased the throwout bearing,but now you say you can't figure out how to look inside the bellhousing for clutch operation.To grease the bearing you had to have removed the inspection cover,and that is where you would look inside the bellhousing.Did you grease the shaft pivots thinking you were greasing the bearing?I'm not reading anything that would lead me to believe you have a clutch problem anyway.Everything you say points to the bullets in the top cover.Also,if you've had the top cover off before you tighten the bolts again make sure the shafts slide freely into the two holes in the bellhousing.They can hang up being a few thousandths off.Usually that will mean not wanting to slide into first or third easily.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 05-15-2017, 10:11 AM

Strange things happen??? A Friend, with a NEW shift tower & shift lever, got it stuck in reverse & "some" other gear??? And it LOCKED up.
Fiddled with it & somehow it was OK again! Things that keep us AWAKE at night!
Bill Puzzled

Rick6 · 05-15-2017, 10:14 AM

Keith,

Several posts back it was suggested that I check the clutch acuator arm for cracks leading to a loos in movement. You can not see the acuator on the inside of the bell housing from the bell housing inspection access window where you grease the throw-out bearing.

Yes, I did grease the throw-out bearing.

Art Newland · 05-15-2017, 10:29 AM

Someone needs to hook you up with a different tower to give a try. My 49 F-1's non-syncro 4 speed does this same thing, it's very frustrating. I attribute it to the shifter being worn out but really don't know, don't care either as I'm on the hunt for a three speed.

dave in australia · 05-15-2017, 08:04 PM

Have you tried placing it straight into 2nd whilst the car is stationary then trying to take off?

Patrick L. · 05-16-2017, 07:14 PM

OK, I guess I'm stumped for now. Lets start again.

Make sure pedal free-play is 1-1.5"

Engine running. [Is the idle set to a correct speed ? Not too fast.] Clutch released in neutral, Push in the pedal, will it allow you to shift into any and all gears ? Alternate using pedal and shifting into different gears. Having to allow a second or two before it'll allow to shift is OK.

The fork collar does appear to be worn, but, its hard to see how much wear. I don't think thats a problem right now though. The forks are being set into the collars correctly ?

If the clutch is working correctly, try taking off in second and see if it can be shifted into 3rd. If it can, then see if it can be downshifted.

I'm scratching my head right now.

05-14-2017, 12:43 PM	#21
Dollar Bill Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Keystone Heights, FL Posts: 647	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear I'm betting you will find shifter fork or rail problems. You may need T/O bearing but that will not cause inability to select 2nd/3rd gear. __________________ I Love Anything That Turns Money Into Noise

05-14-2017, 01:34 PM	#22
Beauford Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: VA Posts: 569	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Make sure forks are in the slots

05-14-2017, 07:10 PM	#24
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear I would have someone push and release the clutch pedal several times while you are under the car looking for lost motion due to a crack opening up. It might be a crack in the lever outside or inside the bellhousing. If no cracks are found, then I'd be looking for a clutch disc or pressure plate problem.

05-14-2017, 07:51 PM	#25
RonC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 1,868	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear If it's grinding the clutch is not releasing.

05-14-2017, 07:54 PM	#26
Gunmetal blue2 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Columbia, TN.38401 Posts: 422	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) your shifter fork for 2 and 3 gear may be wore down to the point it won't shift into 2 or 3 in the transmission tower

05-14-2017, 08:27 PM	#27
daveymc29 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Danville, CA Posts: 1,554	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Have you greased the throughout bearing carrier? It may be that it is not sliding freely. I had that problem with my coupe and greasing it made it shift totally into 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Before that i wasn't really into first and if there was a bit of incline the gears just screamed and the car stood still. I could go into 2nd and the car moved fine. Grease the carrier, no harm done if that doesn't cure your problem.

05-14-2017, 09:06 PM	#28
Rick6 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 17	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Pictures of the shifting forks and the ball end of the shift lever. There is a bitof wear on the ball end of the shift lever and on the shifting fork castings where they engage with the shift lever ball. However none of the wear looks bad enough to cause an inability to shift.

05-14-2017, 09:09 PM	#29
Rick6 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 17	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Yes I did grease the throw out bearing, it appears to be sliding without any binding.

05-15-2017, 06:03 AM	#31
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Only the pic of the transmitter comes up for me. It seems to look OK. The idea of having someone work the pedal while you watch the clutch operation is a good one. I was thinking you had done that especially after reply 14. The fact that you can shift from any gear when not moving and being able to shift in first and backward without problems seems to tell me that again the clutch seems OK. When pulling a transmitter or removing a clutch I pull the rear end. I find it far easier and it won't scratch anything important or pretty.

05-15-2017, 07:19 AM	#32
Rick6 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 17	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Good morning Patrick, I did have someone in the car working the clutch pedal while I watched the movement. I saw no loss of motion or signs of cracks in the actuator arm external to the the bell housing. I'm not sure how to see inside the bell housing to check the internal actuator arm without pulling the transmission. The other pics were links as the forum would not let me attach additional images due to a security certificate error. Here are the links: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oumqtozn14...65357.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fprdxc87fi...65410.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn77aa3nk5...0gear.jpg?dl=0 Last edited by Rick6; 05-15-2017 at 07:30 AM. Reason: Added 3rd picture link

05-15-2017, 07:48 AM	#33
Rick6 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 17	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Updated reply to Patrick Good morning Patrick, I did have someone in the car working the clutch pedal while I watched the movement. I saw no loss of motion or signs of cracks in the actuator arm external to the the bell housing. I'm not sure how to see inside the bell housing to check the internal actuator arm without pulling the transmission. The high gear has quite a bit of wear on the left (rearward edge) see third image link below. Is that causing the inability to shift into 2nd/3rd gear. What I don't understand is many have said its not the clutch if I can shift into 1st/reverse. But others have said if it grinds the clutch is not disengaging fully and that is the problem. There is some binding of the shift finger for the high gear on the rail that the finger slides on. The low and reverse finger slides easily on its rail. Not sure this is the problem as I can shift through all the gears with the clutch disengaged with or without the engine running at a stop. Any forward movement and we get a lot of grinding until you can get the gears to stop spinning and then you can engage 2nd and 3rd gears. But the car is not moving so it does no good. The other pics were links as the forum would not let me attach additional images due to a security certificate error. Here are the links: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oumqtozn14...65357.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fprdxc87fi...65410.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/tn77aa3nk5...0gear.jpg?dl=0

05-15-2017, 07:58 AM	#34
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Rick6, Kinda' ODD situation! By the way, you said you ran out of clutch adjustment. The suppliers sell an adjustable link rod that doesn't require removing the clevis pin, it adjusts, using LOCK nuts & I "think" it has a LONGER range of adjustment??? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-15-2017, 07:59 AM	#35
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,987	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear I'm a little confused now.You said you greased the throwout bearing,but now you say you can't figure out how to look inside the bellhousing for clutch operation.To grease the bearing you had to have removed the inspection cover,and that is where you would look inside the bellhousing.Did you grease the shaft pivots thinking you were greasing the bearing?I'm not reading anything that would lead me to believe you have a clutch problem anyway.Everything you say points to the bullets in the top cover.Also,if you've had the top cover off before you tighten the bolts again make sure the shafts slide freely into the two holes in the bellhousing.They can hang up being a few thousandths off.Usually that will mean not wanting to slide into first or third easily.

05-15-2017, 10:11 AM	#36
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Strange things happen??? A Friend, with a NEW shift tower & shift lever, got it stuck in reverse & "some" other gear??? And it LOCKED up. Fiddled with it & somehow it was OK again! Things that keep us AWAKE at night! Bill Puzzled __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

05-15-2017, 10:14 AM	#37
Rick6 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Cedarburg, WI Posts: 17	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Keith, Several posts back it was suggested that I check the clutch acuator arm for cracks leading to a loos in movement. You can not see the acuator on the inside of the bell housing from the bell housing inspection access window where you grease the throw-out bearing. Yes, I did grease the throw-out bearing.

05-15-2017, 10:29 AM	#38
Art Newland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Lynden, WA Posts: 1,564	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Someone needs to hook you up with a different tower to give a try. My 49 F-1's non-syncro 4 speed does this same thing, it's very frustrating. I attribute it to the shifter being worn out but really don't know, don't care either as I'm on the hunt for a three speed.

05-15-2017, 08:04 PM	#39
dave in australia Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Victoria, Australia Posts: 1,176	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear Have you tried placing it straight into 2nd whilst the car is stationary then trying to take off?

05-16-2017, 07:14 PM	#40
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Can not shift to 2nd or 3rd gear OK, I guess I'm stumped for now. Lets start again. Make sure pedal free-play is 1-1.5" Engine running. [Is the idle set to a correct speed ? Not too fast.] Clutch released in neutral, Push in the pedal, will it allow you to shift into any and all gears ? Alternate using pedal and shifting into different gears. Having to allow a second or two before it'll allow to shift is OK. The fork collar does appear to be worn, but, its hard to see how much wear. I don't think thats a problem right now though. The forks are being set into the collars correctly ? If the clutch is working correctly, try taking off in second and see if it can be shifted into 3rd. If it can, then see if it can be downshifted. I'm scratching my head right now.