Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-19-2017, 06:29 PM   #1
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Frame straightening

Frame is pretty straight now. I have about a 1/4" bow in the upward direction from rear motor mounts to both horns. Will the body and engine weight take enough away from that 1/4" so I don't have problems elsewhere ? Also, some of the cast brackets were drill out to a egg shape. What would be the best way to weld them and re-drill ? Thanks , Pat
Attached Images
File Type: jpg frame long view first.jpg (49.7 KB, 205 views)
File Type: jpg frame horn up use.jpg (63.0 KB, 193 views)
File Type: jpg frame bend before use.jpg (51.7 KB, 191 views)
File Type: jpg finished Frame 1 last.jpg (56.4 KB, 189 views)
File Type: jpg finished frame 2 last.jpg (44.5 KB, 175 views)
File Type: jpg Finished frame last.jpg (56.3 KB, 176 views)
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 06:57 PM   #2
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,481
Default Re: Frame straightening

Well Pat, when you think I beam, you sure think big!

I guess they will get the job done.
I have a pair of frame brackets, if you need some, but I'll have to find them.

Are you saying you have removed the buckle in the frame and now the frame is 1/4" too high on both sides near the rear motor mounts?
I've only seen frame sag at that area.

Last edited by Tom Wesenberg; 01-19-2017 at 07:05 PM.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-19-2017, 07:20 PM   #3
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

Tom, yes it's the total opposite of the norm. Do I have to be concerned about it being 1/4" high ? I could take that out, but thought it might be a good thing. Someone told me (Senior Member) that I over thought my spring spreader and it was a tad overkill. Your saying my frame straightener is a tad much.
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 07:38 PM   #4
GPierce
Senior Member
 
GPierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Germantown,TN
Posts: 243
Default Re: Frame straightening

I would set a couple of boards across the motor mounts, set the engine and tranny on them and see if the frame comes down any.

Whish I'd had those I beams when I did mine.
GPierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 07:56 PM   #5
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,481
Default Re: Frame straightening

About 15 years ago a body shop had me install an engine with multiplate clutch into a 1928 Special Coupe. The shop had painted the car and had the hood fitting correctly before I installed the engine, but after the installation, the bottom of the hood had a large gap. I never would have though mounting the engine would have flexed the frame that much. They corrected it by the next day, so I didn't see what they had done to correct the sag.

I wouldn't worry about 1/4" high until the engine is in and body is mounted.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 08:27 PM   #6
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

GPierce, I think I will weld the I -beams together to make a flat surface to work on. I have no place level or flat down here to work on anything. I'll put an axle, tires, and hitch on it to make it portable. You will need to bring a spare tire if you need to use it.
I think I'll try standing on the frame, with a few bags of blasting sand, and see what happens. Little nervous about getting carried away and wrecking something. Tom, I'll try mig welding the brackets first and when that doesn't work ? I'll buy a 3x rivet gun and come looking for a good buck man with brackets.
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 10:07 PM   #7
jw hash
Senior Member
 
jw hash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auburn Washington
Posts: 2,215
Default Re: Frame straightening

there is no cast brackets on a Model A frame. they are forged there for you can weld in your egged shape holes. if the frame is to high at the rear motor mounts. it can be a problem later. I would work on getting it with in 1/8" you can live with that. I fits a friends car that was finished and had the same problem. the hood was to low in the front. I made special brackets to straighten the frame with the body on it. it was not a fun job.
jw hash is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 10:20 PM   #8
larrys40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,775
Default Re: Frame straightening

I agree
1/4 inch is a lot . The frame really shouldn't settle that much with the engine installed.
I just checked one with engine out and it is dead on .
So was it sagging with the engine in? I don't think so ....
Since you've tweaked it to this point and know what to do make it right or at least closer
For the sake if hood alignment later you will be glad you did it now
Larry Shepard
larrys40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 11:29 PM   #9
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

I will tweek the frame down a tad tomorrow as long as it's still clamped down and try welding the holes up. Thanks guys
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2017, 11:52 PM   #10
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: Frame straightening

Hi Patrick,

Sounds good.

One should consider that Model A steel frames do not sag and stay bowed with normal professional engineer designed weight loads after carrying these designed loads for long periods of time like that of later sagging wood beams over time.

It takes a high impact load to over stress steel framing, or a load in excess of the design load to over stress steel to where it sags/bends and remains bent as such.

Model A frames do not deflect much with and without passengers, otherwise doors and hoods would become excessively misaligned upon entering and existing.

As far as the Model A bent frames many have witnessed, some may find it difficult to imagine what type of 1930's road conditions and railroad crossing it took to over stress a Model A steel frame.

Today, one would have to search for and travel on non-maintained, un-classified field roads, forest back roads, and creek bed roads to experience these very brutal and severe road conditions and RR track crossings that bent Model A frames.

Just something for anyone to consider "today" before and after straightening 86 year old Model A bent frames.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 01-19-2017 at 11:54 PM. Reason: typo
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 12:21 AM   #11
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

Model A frames do not deflect much with and without passengers, otherwise doors and hoods would become excessively misaligned upon entering and existing. (H.L. quote)

H.L.,this paragraph stuck out the most to me ! I will get it as close as I can now that I'm not afraid anymore. This is a very nice early 28, left hand ebrake, frame. I wasn't quite sure if I was qualified to engage in the straightening process but, by the time I got the beams blocked up and leveled, I didn't have enough strength to wreck anything
Thanks H.L. as always. Pat
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 02:25 AM   #12
H. L. Chauvin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,179
Default Re: Frame straightening

Hi Patrick,

In not knowing your future intentions and plans; but after filling in "any" multiple metal holes with welding material, located "anywhere", it could become difficult to relocate matching, original holes with exact center to center dimensions as that of former holes.

Depending on "where" one is filling with weld, and subsequently where wanting to later drill similar multiple holes, it can never hurt to make a metal or wood template with matching holes with exact hole centers which duplicate the locations of the centers of original holes.

After the holes are filled with weld, this template can be positioned exactly in the same place, and used to mark and/or provide exact matching new holes.
H. L. Chauvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 06:05 AM   #13
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

That is a great idea and relieves some of the doubt I had in welding the holes up. I can see part of the original holes now and can get a near perfect center. The plans are to keep this truck as original as I can. Solid front motor mounts, split equalizing brake shaft, and as for the E-brake it can go either way. My truck and engine are Nov. 1928 with this pre- June 28 frame. Not really sure how to go with the E-brake yet, seeing as how I don't have a lever yet. Push button or pull lever or what ever it's called. Would the lever be crome plated, nickel, or just painted on the truck? Thanks for the comments H.L. Pat
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 07:43 AM   #14
ken will
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Nauset
Posts: 19
Default Re: Frame straightening

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatrickGrant View Post
Also, some of the cast brackets were drill out to a egg shape. What would be the best way to weld them and re-drill ? Thanks , Pat
If the large end of the egg shape is the correct part of the original hole, I would weld a little bit to the small end of the egg shape and then sculpt it back to circular with a rat tail file.
ken will is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 09:10 AM   #15
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

ken will, I will make a template and then try your way. If that doesn't turn out well, then I can still fill and drill.
I guess I have to buy the Judging standards ! kenparker's thread answered my E-brake platting question, though, I think !!
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2017, 06:20 PM   #16
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 2,974
Default Re: Frame straightening

Try a template and spray the overlay with primer. Did that for the wallowed out holes for the steering box. Got the locations for the template holes from the passenger side of the frame where the left hand steering box would be bolted.
Bob
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 04:28 PM   #17
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

Brentwood, Going to make a template off my extra early frame. The holes haven't been molested on that one. Spray paint sounds like the easiest way to do it.
I straightened my frame to within an 1/8" today with the help of a hydraulic jack. When I flipped the frame over to do that, I found it was off more than I first thought. It's in near perfect order now. Checked square and it was dead on !! Also frame number was readable *15100* puts it in a January 26, 1928 area I believe. Time to weld, sand, and paint it up. Thanks for the help everyone !!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Frame straight.jpg (65.5 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg frame straightened .jpg (71.9 KB, 52 views)
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 04:41 PM   #18
Art Newland
Senior Member
 
Art Newland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Lynden, WA
Posts: 1,514
Default Re: Frame straightening

Wow Pat, with that rig you could straighten out an aircraft carrier!
Very cool early frame you have. Just witnessed an early 28 AA frame. Left hand E-brake, secondary transmission behind a three-speed, worm drive rear-end marked "TT".
Art Newland is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 04:58 PM   #19
PatrickGrant
Senior Member
 
PatrickGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Theilman, Mn
Posts: 147
Default Re: Frame straightening

Art, sounds like your engine is running good. I would love to have an AA frame and running gear like that, for an extended cab, because this cab is going to be very tight for me. Love this expensive hobby to death ! or I mean till my wife kills me
PatrickGrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2017, 05:56 PM   #20
wrndln
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lakeville, MN
Posts: 4,562
Default Re: Frame straightening

Pat,
You are one industrious fellow. It looks like you got the frame in good shape in only 2 or 3 days. Congratulations. Welding up the 3 or 4 holes should be a piece of cake for you, then you are read to roll.
Rusty Nelson
wrndln is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 AM.