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Old 01-19-2020, 09:11 PM   #21
Merc Cruzer
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Are the Ford and Merc pulleys the same diameter? That would make a difference.
That is my question precisely. Is there a difference ((diameter and TDC button (actually 2 degreed befor BTDC) on top)) between the Ford and Mercury pulleys?
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Originally Posted by 40cpe View Post
In my opinion, the speculation will not cease until you establish TDC. It can be done easily using the often mentioned zip tie method. You can troubleshoot from there.

I degreed the pulley on my 8BA. I just looked at it, and 1 1/2" is about 25 degrees. I experimented with various static timing settings with my engine, but not as high as 25 degrees. If the engine starts well, it should run well at that position if no advance is working. I don't see where you have checked the advance to work or the carb to create vacuum. The vacuum can looks new, but we all know how that goes.

You could use the cable tie method to see if the TDC marks align with actual TDC on the motor.

I did a video on it.

https://youtu.be/dn446jjCVRg

Mart.


Mart,

I will do the "zip tie method" the first thing tomorrow. The nice thing is I already have a pointer.

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 01-19-2020 at 09:48 PM.
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Old 01-19-2020, 09:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

The diameter of the pulley makes no difference.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:17 AM   #24
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

And the timing pointer if you have a wide belt front cover with a small belt pulley would be sitting away from the pulley.
That would tell you if you have a mismatch there.
And you shouldn´t have a 25 degree difference from that.
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Old 01-20-2020, 06:02 AM   #25
51 MERC-CT
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Just for reference this is the dot to keyway location on '50-'51 crank pulley.
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Old 01-20-2020, 08:28 AM   #26
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

[QUOTE=flatheadmurre;1843321]And the timing pointer if you have a wide belt front cover with a small belt pulley would be sitting away from the pulley.
That would tell you if you have a mismatch there.
And you shouldn´t have a 25 degree difference from that.[/QUOT

The pointer in my car:
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:08 AM   #27
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

This is the correct pointer setup for your car.
You can see a circle in the casting where the pointer is mounted when used with a widebelt pulley.
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:43 AM   #28
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Originally Posted by flatheadmurre View Post
This is the correct pointer setup for your car.
You can see a circle in the casting where the pointer is mounted when used with a widebelt pulley.
Then it appears mine is correct, as to the pointer location. Definitely not as easy to get photos when mounted on the completed engine, in the car.

Thank you
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Old 01-20-2020, 09:55 AM   #29
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Do the ziptie test....that will narrow down the investigation !
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:51 AM   #30
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

A couple of questions. What is the dwell you set the points to (should be 27 degrees) and, are you sure you have the timing light connected to the #1 plug wire?
No insult intended, just grabbing at straws!

Last edited by V8 Bob; 01-20-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:48 AM   #31
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Ok folks, I have to admit putting a foreign object into the cylinder, of a perfectly good engine would have not been my first choice. But here it is. Bottom line, the new TDC, is still 1 1/2" off the original pulley marker.

The arrow picture #1 arrow = new TDC, # 2 arrow = is the original TDC pulley button.

The zip tie method test "confirmed that the TDC was in fact with the timing mark on the pulley aligned with the timing pin on the front of the timing cover."

I apologize for the confusion.
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Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 02-04-2020 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:24 PM   #32
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Well, now you know where TDC is and have a point to set the timing from.
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Old 01-20-2020, 12:39 PM   #33
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

After checking with an old time flathead racer in the local club, he feels the pulley has slipped. It is on the key by only 1/4". The only way to confirm this would be to pull the front timing cover and do a visual inspection. Pulling the bolt and washer and looking from the front will not give you the visual required.
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Just to be sure: you did bring the piston up against the stop, mark the pulley, reverse the rotation back to the stop, mark the pulley, and divide the two marks for TDC?
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Old 01-20-2020, 01:53 PM   #35
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

I have run across dampers that have slipped relative to the keyway. But that is due to a rubber section between the outer and inter parts of the damper. Not sure I see how that could happen on a flathead solid metal pulley.

At this point not sure it matters if you have a true TDC mark to work with, 59a and earlier engines do not have a timing indicator on the pulley and get along fine for timing once TDC is found and marked.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
I have run across dampers that have slipped relative to the keyway. But that is due to a rubber section between the outer and inter parts of the damper. Not sure I see how that could happen on a flathead solid metal pulley.

At this point not sure it matters if you have a true TDC mark to work with, 59a and earlier engines do not have a timing indicator on the pulley and get along fine for timing once TDC is found and marked.
Unless a small piece is broken out of the pulley that goes over the key. These pulleys have a tendency to break. If you notice, the part of the pulley that goes over the key is thinner. That may work when you are driving water pumps, fan and generator, but add a power steering pump and the the load may become too much for only 1/4" of the key to power it. I didn't have to pull the timing cover to see this.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:25 PM   #37
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Boy, I don't know. If the front pulley was that far from being all the way on, I would expect it would be impossible to keep the fan belts on.
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Old 01-20-2020, 02:26 PM   #38
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

Is the advance plate (red arrows) in the distributor up against the stop pins
(green arrows) ?
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Is the advance plate (red arrows) in the distributor up against the stop pins
(green arrows) ?
Yes
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Old 01-20-2020, 03:57 PM   #40
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Default Re: Incorrect timing on pulley of 53' Mercury

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Unless a small piece is broken out of the pulley that goes over the key. These pulleys have a tendency to break. If you notice, the part of the pulley that goes over the key is thinner. That may work when you are driving water pumps, fan and generator, but add a power steering pump and the the load may become too much for only 1/4" of the key to power it. I didn't have to pull the timing cover to see this.
Something is screwed up here. There should be a sleeve on the crank that the seal rubs against and this does not extend beyond the front cover. There should be no slot visible either.The key that holds the pulley is a about an inch long and should be fully visible. I have never seen a pulley break in this area.
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