Electrical Issue advice

[JSeery]

Take a look at the wiring diagram. I would disconnect one circuit at a time until you find the one which is causing the arc at the battery.

[koates]

What do you mean the ammeter is pegged ? Is it right over on charge or discharge ? Is the engine running or not ? Does the ammeter show some kind of charge when the engine is revved up a bit ? Does the ammeter show a discharge when the headlights are turned ON with the engine stopped ? Please answer all these questions as I am trying to establish if the generator and lighting circuits are working OK. Did you disconnect the ammeter like I suggested earlier? Also disconnect the stop light switch. What is this SIREN, that is not original. Regards, Kevin.

[1931 flamingo]

No one's asked, so I will. Are we talking about your avitar?? Is this a stock configuration or is this a "hot rod" with aftermarket wiring?? FWIW
Paul in CT

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

What do you mean the ammeter is pegged ? Is it right over on charge or discharge ? Is the engine running or not ? Does the ammeter show some kind of charge when the engine is revved up a bit ? Does the ammeter show a discharge when the headlights are turned ON with the engine stopped ? Please answer all these questions as I am trying to establish if the generator and lighting circuits are working OK. Did you disconnect the ammeter like I suggested earlier? Also disconnect the stop light switch. What is this SIREN, that is not original. Regards, Kevin.

Kevin
First....I just pulled the lead wire to the cutout as that was very quick and easy to do and checked at the battery and it still arced!! SO I put the lead back on the cut out and just had a look under the dash. The switch for the interior light is suspect for sure!!! It has electrical tape wrapped around the back of it which I am not happy at all with!!! I also saw a couple of other spots with electrical tape around them that I have to investigate as well!!! As for the Siren......IF you noticed my avatar it is a custom German cabriolet and it has a "bosch" siren on it!! SO that is another item to add to the list along with the brake switch, interior light switch, horn etc etc. ALSO trafficators!!!!
The car is running!!!! Running fairly good!!! the ammeter gauge is pegged to the charge side!!! I have not disconnected the ammeter gauge YET!!! I can tell you that everything works except the horn (sometimes- its an issue with the horn not the wiring I know that for sure). The lights work, trafficators, interior lights, they all work, the siren is yet to be hooked to the switch!!!

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo

No one's asked, so I will. Are we talking about your avitar?? Is this a stock configuration or is this a "hot rod" with aftermarket wiring?? FWIW
Paul in CT

Yes my avatar.....I didn't realize it looked like a "Hot Rod" "After Market" kind of car?? Stock configuration with 1930's German parade car and 1930 traffic law additions!!!!

[rockfla]

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Koates


IF it helps, here are the pictures of my cutout!!!

[Bob C]

Looks like you have the wires coming out of the generator hooked up wrong.
There should be a red and black wire coming out of the generator. The red
goes to the cut-out and the black goes under one of the cut-out hold down
screws to ground. See page 206 of the 1932-37 Service bulletins.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by Bob C

Looks like you have the wires coming out of the generator hooked up wrong.
There should be a red and black wire coming out of the generator. The red
goes to the cut-out and the black goes under one of the cut-out hold down
screws to ground. See page 206 of the 1932-37 Service bulletins.

So is the one wire from the generator going to the "lead" or power in side of the cutout supposed to be grounded under the cutout??? OR potentially the two wire coming out of the generator hooked up wrong as well as not being grounded???

[Bob C]

3brush.jpeg
I'm not real knowledgeable on this but it looks like one wire should come
from one of the main brushes to the A side of the cut-out and the other wire
should come from the field coil to ground under one of the cut-out screws.


This picture of a Model A generator may help. The wire you see going from brush to the stud at the cut-out is the one you want hooked to the A terminal on your cut-out.

[koates]

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words and Bob C is correct How could this happen. You will be lucky if your armature is not burnt out as current is being fed from the cut out battery wire at the front and fed into the generator all the time. Bad mistake here. To fix it remove the generator cover band. Follow the two generator wires into the generator. The one that goes to the main insulated brush holder is the one that goes to the back or A terminal on the cutout. The other wire connects into the field coils and then goes to ground under the cut out mounting screw. Only the battery wire goes to the front of the cutout. Be very careful to fit those terminal insulators correctly otherwise you will short the terminal screws to ground on the cut out cover. You will have to check the third brush setting so start the engine and rev it up some and read the amps charge on your ammeter. It should be only about five amps for daylight running. If its higher than that then adjust the third by pushing it around. Of course your mystery current draw will be gone now when everything is turned off. Post a new pic of your cutout so I can check it. Regards, Kevin.

[Randy in ca]

I'm not much of an electrician either, but I think this shows what Bob and Kevin have stated.

-

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Well, a picture is worth a thousand words and Bob C is correct How could this happen. You will be lucky if your armature is not burnt out as current is being fed from the cut out battery wire at the front and fed into the generator all the time. Bad mistake here. To fix it remove the generator cover band. Follow the two generator wires into the generator. The one that goes to the main insulated brush holder is the one that goes to the back or A terminal on the cutout. The other wire connects into the field coils and then goes to ground under the cut out mounting screw. Only the battery wire goes to the front of the cutout. Be very careful to fit those terminal insulators correctly otherwise you will short the terminal screws to ground on the cut out cover. You will have to check the third brush setting so start the engine and rev it up some and read the amps charge on your ammeter. It should be only about five amps for daylight running. If its higher than that then adjust the third by pushing it around. Of course your mystery current draw will be gone now when everything is turned off. Post a new pic of your cutout so I can check it. Regards, Kevin.

Thank you Kevin, I will check it tonight.....My intuition tells me to pull the generator OFF and go have it checked before I proceed????

[koates]

Well it depends who is going to check it. Not all auto electricians or mechanics are conversant with early generators. I suggest that you follow the posted instructions and see how it goes. The third brush inside the generator is thinner than the other two brushes and the wire connected to it goes into the field coils. The other end of the field coils is the wire that goes under the cut out mounting screw to ground. Make sure any wires inside the generator are all clear of the rotating armature. Easy, so go to it. Regards, Kevin.

[rockfla]

Originally Posted by koates

Well it depends who is going to check it. Not all auto electricians or mechanics are conversant with early generators. I suggest that you follow the posted instructions and see how it goes. The third brush inside the generator is thinner than the other two brushes and the wire connected to it goes into the field coils. The other end of the field coils is the wire that goes under the cut out mounting screw to ground. Make sure any wires inside the generator are all clear of the rotating armature. Easy, so go to it. Regards, Kevin.

Got it!!! I'll do it tonight, we have a good starter/generator guy here in town, he sort of hates to mess with them anymore as "good" parts are almost non existent anymore and he hates all the "new" Chinese crap!!!!

[35fordtn]

You generator should have a insulated stud and a bus bar (assuming authenticity is key). and the ground is grounded inside the case like a Model A. This was the case in 32-33. In 1934 they used wires coming out like yours has. As others have pointed out it is wired wrong.

[FlatheadTed]

He disconnected the gen wire and it still arced .it looks professionally wired is this some sort of bypass with a Diode hidden somewhere .I see Koates & Bob is right

[koates]

Ted, Well yes he did say that when the battery wire was disconnected off the cut out and there was still a current draw and that is a bit of a mystery. Unfortunately we are not there to check it out and the cut out is wired incorrectly so I think the best to do is make the connections correct and try it out. And then we go from there. The cut out looks like an original Ford one with the correct markings. We will see. Regards, Kevin.

[FlatheadTed]

Yes I agree ,might be fried now ,

[koates]

Originally Posted by 35fordtn

You generator should have a insulated stud and a bus bar (assuming authenticity is key). and the ground is grounded inside the case like a Model A. This was the case in 32-33. In 1934 they used wires coming out like yours has. As others have pointed out it is wired wrong.

Michael, you are correct about the generator. It appears to be a mix of components between 1932 & 1934. It has the correct front bracket with no cooling openings and a pulley without fan blades cast in. The field housing with the wires coming out through a grommet appears to be 1934 year. Cant really tell if the cut out is original FORD or a FUN PROJECTS regulator type. But its wired incorrectly for sure so when the wiring is corrected we will see if it works or not. Regards, Kevin.

[35fordtn]

Originally Posted by koates

Michael, you are correct about the generator. It appears to be a mix of components between 1932 & 1934. It has the correct front bracket with no cooling openings and a pulley without fan blades cast in. The field housing with the wires coming out through a grommet appears to be 1934 year. Cant really tell if the cut out is original FORD or a FUN PROJECTS regulator type. But its wired incorrectly for sure so when the wiring is corrected we will see if it works or not. Regards, Kevin.

Koates, I have several 32 Generators and around half of them have been repaired using the 1934-37 method of the wires exiting as shown. Not sure why?; but maybe because the original stud and insulator i hard to come by? I really like the original 1929-33 setup with the stud and bus bar internally grounded.

Given the use of Slotted Round head screws rather than the original type hex screws, and the looks of the stampings my guess is that it's a Fun Projects unit. If it indeed is; I would be suprised if it is not cooked by now after being wired the way it is/was...

Roclfla, another source of shorting is indeed the horn. Horns up through 1938 supplied power to the horns all the time and the horn button simply supplied the needed ground. Either way that generator and/or cutout needs to be figured/sorted out.

PS... Nice fan belt!