Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-15-2017, 05:30 PM   #1
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default I believe I found the leak

So I took the car for a short drive then brought in it and put it on the lift to check where the oil leak was coming from. The side cover was weeping a bit but the majority was dripping off the cotter pin in the clutch cover. I pulled the pan to check the condition of the drain tube and found.......no drain tube. The boss that the drain tube screws into has a piece broke out of it and there is evidence that the tube was spot welded in place at one time (poorly obviously). No tube rattling around in the pan. Anything else I should be checking out while the pan is off?. I could plastigage the rod caps I suppose. [IMG][/IMG]
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 05:36 PM   #2
1931 flamingo
Senior Member
 
1931 flamingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new britain,ct 06052
Posts: 9,389
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Might ck the clearance on the mains??
Paul in CT
1931 flamingo is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 09-15-2017, 07:19 PM   #3
Synchro909
Senior Member
 
Synchro909's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,472
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 flamingo View Post
Might ck the clearance on the mains??
Paul in CT
Especially the middle one.
__________________
I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.
Synchro909 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 07:31 PM   #4
glenn in camino
Senior Member
 
glenn in camino's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Camino, CA.
Posts: 3,086
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Screw the drain tube back with some JB weld, tighten the valve cover and plastiguage the mains and rods. You should be good to go.
glenn in camino is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 10:40 PM   #5
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

We just went thru the very same thing on a customers car this last couple of weeks.
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 11:05 PM   #6
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by glenn in camino View Post
Screw the drain tube back with some JB weld, tighten the valve cover and plastiguage the mains and rods. You should be good to go.
JB weld, great idea. Sounds like i have to pull the valve cover to remove the main caps so I am going to check the valve lash while I'm in there. I took it for a short jaunt before pulling the pan and it runs quite a bit better as far as smooth goes but doesn't pull as good as before. About 47 MPH and that's it. Going to recheck the timing after i get this inside stuff done. Might have it a bit retarded.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 08:19 AM   #7
Marshall V. Daut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Posts: 2,083
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

When adjusting the valves, do yourself a favor and remove the spark plugs so that you can more easily and precisely hand crank the engine. If your engine has the original solid tappets, you won't be able to adjust the valves without removing them and grinding the ends. That means pulling the cylinder head. Hopefully your predecessor installed adjustable lifters, although given that he didn't even know enough to put in a rear main drain tube, I would suspect he didn't put in adjustable lifters. Either too cheap or too ignorant to have done so.
By the way, remove the dipper tray from the oil pan so that you can clean out the sludge on the bottom of the pan. It may be that the oil drain tube is trapped in goo down there. That's where I have found poorly-installed drain tubes in the past.
Marshall
Marshall V. Daut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 08:27 AM   #8
Marshall V. Daut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Davenport, Iowa
Posts: 2,083
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Also, do not screw in the new drain tube too far! You do not want to screw it in until all the threads on the tube are not visible. That will block the oil passageway inside the cap. Screw in the new tube so that you can still see a couple threads. It would be a good idea to order a couple welch plugs when order the new drain tube. Pry out the old one before you screw in the new tube. This way, you can ensure by looking into the hole that the tube is not too deep. Then simply tap in the new welch (freeze) plug. Order a 3/8" tube, even if your cap has the older 5/16" tube. You'll need to re-tap the threads in the cap for this larger tube. JB Weld or braze the new tube in place. By installing the 3/8" drain tube, you will help the rear main drain oil back into the pan better. Ford changed from 5/16" to 3/8" in 1930 because of rear main leakage complaints.
Marshall
Marshall V. Daut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 09:13 AM   #9
Benson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,579
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

I have never seen anyone try brazing the tube in place, always saw electric welder used.

BUT I hope the brazing process does not melt the Babbitt in the rear main cap...

I wonder if maybe a wire welder would be better as it does not heat up the area of the main cap so much?

Last edited by Benson; 09-16-2017 at 10:47 AM.
Benson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 09:39 AM   #10
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut View Post
When adjusting the valves, do yourself a favor and remove the spark plugs so that you can more easily and precisely hand crank the engine. If your engine has the original solid tappets, you won't be able to adjust the valves without removing them and grinding the ends. That means pulling the cylinder head. Hopefully your predecessor installed adjustable lifters, although given that he didn't even know enough to put in a rear main drain tube, I would suspect he didn't put in adjustable lifters. Either too cheap or too ignorant to have done so.
By the way, remove the dipper tray from the oil pan so that you can clean out the sludge on the bottom of the pan. It may be that the oil drain tube is trapped in goo down there. That's where I have found poorly-installed drain tubes in the past.
Marshall
LOL, I already cleaned the sludge out of the pan but wish I had known that the tray comes out. Assumed it was spot welded. Would have been MUCH easier. Regarding the tube, it's my understanding that when the car was restored 30 some odd years ago, it was never intended to be driven so I can see where they wouldn't care too much about the tube. I bought it from the 3rd owner since resto and he was somewhat shocked when I said I was going to drive it. He just drove it around his farm a bit. said it had maybe 200 miles put on in the last 30 years.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 09:42 AM   #11
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut View Post
Also, do not screw in the new drain tube too far! You do not want to screw it in until all the threads on the tube are not visible. That will block the oil passageway inside the cap. Screw in the new tube so that you can still see a couple threads. It would be a good idea to order a couple welch plugs when order the new drain tube. Pry out the old one before you screw in the new tube. This way, you can ensure by looking into the hole that the tube is not too deep. Then simply tap in the new welch (freeze) plug. Order a 3/8" tube, even if your cap has the older 5/16" tube. You'll need to re-tap the threads in the cap for this larger tube. JB Weld or braze the new tube in place. By installing the 3/8" drain tube, you will help the rear main drain oil back into the pan better. Ford changed from 5/16" to 3/8" in 1930 because of rear main leakage complaints.
Marshall
Thanks you for that. That is one thing I was aware of as I have been researching this for a few days and read about not screwing the tube in all the way and why. I appreciate you mentioning it as it is pretty obvious that I am new to these engines.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 09:43 AM   #12
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benson View Post
I have never seen anyone try brazing the tube in place, always saw welder used.

BUT I hope the brazing process does not melt the Babbitt in the rear main cap...

I wonder if maybe a wire welder would be better as it does not heat up the area of the main cap so much?
Excellent point that I hadn't considered. Another reason to go with JB weld.
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 09:59 AM   #13
redmodelt
Senior Member
 
redmodelt's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 6,339
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

I would not trust just JB weld to hold it in place. A quick zap with a wire feed mig or what not would be better. Think about the vibration and oil sloshing back and forth, it's not just hanging there without some forces working on it. Ok not a lot but...
__________________
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas!
redmodelt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 04:13 PM   #14
SSsssteamer
Senior Member
 
SSsssteamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA
Posts: 1,023
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by redmodelt View Post
We just went thru the very same thing on a customers car this last couple of weeks.
Ditto.... I used a Mig welder to properly fix my loose oil return tube. It screwed in too far and it created draining interference. The Mig welder welded it exactly where it needed to be, and made it real tight too. My biggest problem was getting just the perfect angle of the tube for its proper clearance with my crank shaft's added counterweights.
SSsssteamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 04:30 PM   #15
aermotor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 1,099
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

What about a good cleaning and some sort of thread loctite?

John
aermotor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 04:43 PM   #16
John
Senior Member
 
John's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 187
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

An old time local Model A motor re-builder near me used to braze the tube into the rear main cap in the many motors he overhauled. I asked him how he did it without melting the babbitt and he stated that he submerged most of the cap upside down in a pan of water and had great success that way. A very simple solution that worked for him. The same solution could be used when spot welding the tube in place.
John is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 05:10 PM   #17
woodiewagon46
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Long Island,NY
Posts: 1,551
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

You are dealing with two dissimilar metals. The cap is cast and the tube is mild steel. The only proper weld, would be to TIG weld it with Ni rod. This will generate a lot of heat so if you went this way, I would do as John suggests and submerge the cap. It can also be brazed or silver soldered the same way. Tricky, but it can be done. Don't waist your time with a JB Weld type of repair. If you are going to do it, do it right.
woodiewagon46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2017, 07:20 PM   #18
Licensed to kill
Senior Member
 
Licensed to kill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Alberta
Posts: 930
Default Re: I believe I found the leak

Well THAT's unfortunate. I removed the rear main and a piece of babbit broke off. I seen the crack before taking the cap off and was extra gentle but it was already broken. I'm missing a piece about half the size of a fingernail. Tried to post pic but can't seem to get them from my phone to the computer (not very tech savy). Bummer
Licensed to kill is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47 PM.