Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-23-2018, 02:02 AM   #21
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
I can't afford one at present. However, I would assemble one at no labor charge in stock form, if I could dyno it.

I like the idea. I usually machine the first sample casting even if it isn't sellable, just to dial in machine programming. So far, every fist block I have ever made, even if not sellable, has been buildable for testing.


I was thinking of cutting an intake port in plastic and letting you flow it. I can do that first and then while we check the port I can be cutting tooling that need cut no matter what changes may need made to the port, if any.


Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 07:09 AM   #22
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,289
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Intake Port: One thing to consider is potentially lowering the guide and associated horseshoe clip retainer groove say .187 to .250 inches. Many of us run Chevy valves (or can) anyway and this would help us increase the spring pressure (without a bunch of shims) and would give you more room in the floor to make a better sweeping transition into the port.

The stock port has a lot of flow issues in the bottom/back and how the shortside turn has to transition. There is not much room to do much with it (due to water both above and below the port). I can see no reason for not removing the water on the intakes all together.

Also, look how little material we have to work with in the back of the bowl - is an area that a lot of 'newbie' porters cut through.

Here is a cross section of a stock port - sure looks like a few key modifications could vastly improve it's flow potential - which would help any of us that want to build performance engines (and the guys paying for this block would surely include a lot of those types of guys).

PortCutaway_CloseUp.jpg

Here is a 'manually' hacked up image to kind of show the new bottom:

IntakePortWithMods1.jpg

I would still profile the stock guide to match the port floor in the new (lower) floor area where I removed the water. Hopefully you get the idea.

NOTE: Per Ol' Ron's post below - I only showed some proposed work on the bottom (for an example). I totally agree that the top (short side) work provide a lot of benefit - and potentially MORE than the bottom. I tend to raise the top as much as possible and am extremely mindful of that dang water up there! Would surely like to see it removed on the intake side.

Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 03-01-2018 at 11:13 AM.
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-23-2018, 09:08 AM   #23
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,086
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

This is a good example of how different builders configure their their porting as well a other parts of the engine. In my case I raise the top & bottom of the port. eliminating the water jacket around the intake port would allow us to widen the top of the port to the size of the intake valve. In my case the 1.72 chevy valve for street and up to 1.8 for racing. unfortunately the bowl is the biggest problem and the only way to cure that is to eliminate it all together. The far side of the bowl takes air from the bottom of the port and shuts off the air from the top of the port.
Unfortunately I no longer have a flow bench so I have to use some computer programs run by my grandson. I I have an idea on how to eliminate this, however it has nothing to do with the block casting. Old age and bad eyesight has prevented me from proceeding with this project. I now have a crank assy and am filling a block wit plastic steel around the intake port. If, a big if this works I should be able to dyno this engine to prove a point.
Only time will tell.
Gramps
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 11:33 AM   #24
barnfind
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 407
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

I would be interested at that price range.
Will make me keep my boat anchors around a while longer to see how it works out
barnfind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 11:57 AM   #25
jbrittonjr
Junior Member
 
jbrittonjr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Whiting, NJ
Posts: 23
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

I'm in.
jbrittonjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 01:19 PM   #26
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 2,982
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

What machine work will be left to the builder?
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 03:08 PM   #27
JWL
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fitzgerald, Georgia
Posts: 1,953
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

The best flow I found(with intake ports without water) is a 3 1/2" radius from the straight section into the 60 degree cut below the seat in the bowl with 1.780 valves. Upper end of block port at 1 3/8", at intake manifold, tapering to 1 5/16 at the beginning of the 3 1/2" radius.
JWL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2018, 03:21 PM   #28
2935ford
Senior Member
 
2935ford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posts: 837
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Are any of these blocks in real world testing out on the road?
Or have I missed some posts?
2935ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 03:22 AM   #29
vilanar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 98
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Count me in....very interested
vilanar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 07:46 AM   #30
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 3,062
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I will be starting to cut new 8BA tooling soon. Just for the sake of reference, how many people here think they might want a block when I have them available?

Tod
Here's a harebrained idea! Hold a 'porting challenge' to find the best port shape:

Tod casts the upper portion of one cylinder with OEM bolt locations, centerlines, valve locations, etc., but with extra meat around the ports. Set up a contest like "Engine Masters". Each contestant gets a dummy cylinder and has at it, using their own valves and chunk of cylinder head. On a set date, all the cylinder/head assemblies are taken to one location(like the college where "Engine Masters" is held) and tested on the same flow bench. Winner gets a prize, maybe a new block. Make the entry fee high enough to cover costs or maybe get a sponsor.
Here's a chance for porters (backyard or professionals) to show their stuff. Plus, this new block will get the latest, best port design!
For the ambitious, maybe also cast interchangeable exhaust runners (end and center) to bolt to the cylinder to see what improvements show up here.
Or mold it out of clear plastic. A club or association or sponsor could handle the details of when, where, how much, etc.
"Knowledge is power!" "Put your money where your mouth is!" "Put up or shut up!" Etc. Etc.
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 08:48 AM   #31
jimTN
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Powell, TN
Posts: 1,965
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Sounds like a great project. I agree with Ron about the bore size, there are plenty of 8BA blocks around that will go with small bore. I would add mounting holes for stablizers bars used on 32-48 cars.
jimTN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 01:42 PM   #32
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,086
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

right now I think the point of this block is to replace the original. Everybody, including me have their own little ax to grind. However the truth is no racing body will except it in competion, and it wouldn't pass for an original replacement block in an antique inspection.
I think Tod is in a great place if he makes a block to suit everybody that just need a reliable replacement BLOCK. The obvious choice would be a 27 bolt casting with all the necessary bolt holes to satisfy everybody. This would have an 8BA bell housing. Ford makes adapters to convert to post 49 engines. Any head & intake will fitl. What this will accomplish is: at a reasonable a stock type engine can be reproduced for everyone. The added use of the block if some of the other improvements are made without trying to produce an LS version of the Flathead. Lets get it built. Having worked for a company that pores 200 tons of cast iron a week (Small ant) , I understand some of the problems getting the casting from a liquid state to a machinable chunk of metal.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2018, 01:45 PM   #33
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 5,105
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

I heartily agree with Ol' Ron.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 12:27 PM   #34
dmdeaton
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Southern Ohio
Posts: 40
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

put me on the list, where do we sign up?
dmdeaton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2018, 03:15 PM   #35
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmdeaton View Post
put me on the list, where do we sign up?

I will probably come through the thread and jot down all screen names and then contact you all by Private Message. I think there are at least 20 that can be sold right out of the gate. I will be meeting with an iron foundry this week to go over various castings I need until I am ready to pour stuff in my own foundry.


Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 03:18 PM   #36
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Started cutting the driver side intake port core box for the new 8BA engine block today. The picture is of the beginning of the finish pass. I have a lot going on so I will be pecking away at this until it is ready to cast a first sample.


Tod
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20180228_125525.jpg (47.3 KB, 167 views)
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2018, 10:55 PM   #37
19Fordy
Senior Member
 
19Fordy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Coral Springs FL
Posts: 7,221
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Tod, you are amazing. Thanks for what you are doing.
19Fordy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 10:11 AM   #38
Admiral
Senior Member
 
Admiral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Oakland County, Michigan
Posts: 506
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Tod, you are amazing. Thanks for what you are doing.
I think "amazing" is an insufficient adjective... This whole project is so exciting. KEEP UP THE INCREDIBLE WORK, TOD!
__________________
Eight cylinders, four doors, three speeds, one good time
Admiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 11:14 AM   #39
Bored&Stroked
Senior Member
 
Bored&Stroked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,289
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Keep going Tod - I love seeing the progress and the fact that you're undertaking this effort and hopefully members of the Barn can step-up and buy some of your resulting blocks!

THANK YOU!

Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 03-01-2018 at 10:14 PM.
Bored&Stroked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2018, 06:18 PM   #40
Tod
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Salem, Ohio
Posts: 901
Default Re: 8BA tooling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Tod, you are amazing. Thanks for what you are doing.

Let's not over-state things. I'm just an every day, ordinary guy. I just happen to do this for a living.


On another note, I finished cutting the driver-side intake port core box today. A late afternoon meeting with a couple of people stopped me short of pulling it out of the machine, though. Almost!


Tod
Tod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 PM.