1933 can't start after recent restart

[jim galli]

Post 100. When I originally read your first post 3 weeks ago, I thought to myself, oh, sheared the teeth off the timing gear. Didn't say anything because I figured that would be obvious to the folks here. Don't get discouraged. If 100,000 farmers and ranchers could take it apart and put a new gear on, you probably can too. But we still don't know if that's what happened.

[George/Maine]

Post 97
that's the wrong end the female end is in dist.
I don't know or ever heard of a dist puller.
If you are in a warm area like ca or fl you could use a pipe wrench to twist the dist out by now. Only you know what you have and ford made thing easy to fix not like today mass air senses were a bug would stop the car cold.
The dist can only go in one way so don,t take the joke to heart.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Pat/Ohio

Frank,

Look at the picture that DavidG posted above, now read his post. He has clearly pointed out what you should do next. Remove the timing gear inspection cover (2 bolts shown in the picture and one under the cover that goes through the oil pan). After removing the 3 bolts and timing gear inspections cover, you can now crank the engine over a few spins and check the teeth on the timing gear. Very straight-forward procedure. Good luck!

will do!
sounds like the best plan.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by DavidG

I don't think anyone said that the timing gear was made of fabric or cardboard. It was made of a fiberous plastic called Celeron and it was likely more expensive at the time than anything made of metal.

With all due respect to the suggestion that you could inspect the timing gear by removing the timing pin on the front timing gear cover, all you would ascertain is the highly remote possibility that the nut retaining the timing gear cover on the end of the camshaft was loose. A far more likely cause is sheared teeth and that can only be checked by removing the two bolts holding the side cover of the timing gear and one beneath it through the oil pan flange (see photo below - the timing gear side cover is forward of the fuel pump and shaped something like a quarter moon) and then hand cranking the engine through several revolutions of the crankshaft.

where are these 3 screws? I have a model B I see this side piece with 2 screws and cannot see a screw below

[DavidG]

Frank,

The quickest way to teach yourself the basics of a Ford Model B engine is to pull up a chair and start to think thorough the function of each part aided by a re-print copy of the illustration from the period chassis parts catalogue shown below.

For example, you asked if you have to drain the oil to check the condition of the timing gear, but that suggests that you haven't looked at your engine, identified the timing gear cover in question, and then considered its position relative to the oil pan (where the oil is).

99% of automotive technology circa 1933 is common sense based. Nearly all the hobbyists that frequent this site acquired their knowledge before the internet existed and I'll bet that in nearly every case they did so with a direct, take-it-apart and put-it-back-together approach like the proverbial kid and his watch.

As the illustration is a composite of the Ford four-cylinder engine used between 1928 and 1934, you'll note some components that aren't on your engine or differ from what is on your engine. Once you've identified those by process of elimination or substitution, you're on your way. There is a separate illustration in the cited catalogue for each of the add-on parts to the engine such as the distributor, carburetor, generator, etc., etc.

At this stage of your education regarding your '33 four, you need pictures far more than words.

[DavidG]

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Please re-read the fifth line of the second paragraph beginning "bolts holding the side cover ......" Unless you're using a mirror or looking from beneath the car, you cannot see the 3rd bolt referred to from the top, but you can feel it by sticking your hand beneath the cover and feeling along on the flange of the oil pan. If the bolt is missing you will still feel the hole in the flange of the oil pan.

[Charlie Stephens]

Frank,

As a side note, save all of the bolts and reuse them. I know this would be a sin on a satellite. The bolts that hold the cover on (I assume they are the same as a '32) have a rounded head and are not available from the local hardware store with the correct head. This is typical of many things on the car.

Charlie Stephens

[DavidG]

Charlie,

With respect, I'm sure that you meant to limit that comment to the two bolts on the side of the cover and not to the hex bolt on the underside, otherwise Frank may think that the bolt underneath should have a rounded head. He should save that bolt too because it hopefully is the original with a thick flat head unlike the bolts available today at hardware stores which have noticeably thinner heads. (Except for the flywheel housing, front timing gear cover, water pump, water inlet casting and pipe, and front motor mount bracket, a '33 four is identical to a late '32 four in all respects.

[midgetracer]

Frank,
Do as David G says, but you have to also remove three bolts on the front of the timing cover to get the small side cover off. I am quite sure that you will find the timing gear has teeth sheared off. It is very common on an old engine. A good 4 cylinder mechanic can get the old one off and a new one on in a few hours, but it is a big job if you have never done it, but certainly not impossible for someone of your skills.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Mart

So what you're saying, Frank, it IS rocket science!

Mart.

a real skilled and experience mechanic is like an artist!
Someone who develops a feel for the machine, no just replaces parts.
Truly skilled people in any field are rare.
We seem to have more parts replaces today than truly skilled technicians.

I am new to the field and only entered it because I fell in love with these wonderful old cars from an exciting time the 1920's to early 1930's.
I really hate new plastic cars and have little interest in them.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by midgetracer

Frank,
Do as David G says, but you have to also remove three bolts on the front of the timing cover to get the small side cover off. I am quite sure that you will find the timing gear has teeth sheared off. It is very common on an old engine. A good 4 cylinder mechanic can get the old one off and a new one on in a few hours, but it is a big job if you have never done it, but certainly not impossible for someone of your skills.

This is a silly question, do I have to drain the engine oil first.

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

Frank,

As a side note, save all of the bolts and reuse them. I know this would be a sin on a satellite. The bolts that hold the cover on (I assume they are the same as a '32) have a rounded head and are not available from the local hardware store with the correct head. This is typical of many things on the car.

Charlie Stephens

I always resuse the original bolts.

By the way, spacecraft are usually glued together...stronger than bolts and much lighter.

[Bob C]

Originally Posted by FrankWest

This is a silly question, do I have to drain the engine oil first.

No, BUT if the gear is stripped I would drop the pan to clean
the pieces out.

Bob

[DavidG]

My bad; midgetracer is correct. There are six bolts in total.

[Mike B]

Well, someone has to say this, so may as well be me...

Frank, as I mentioned before, I admire your tenacity to solve this on yur ow,

That said, I see in this thread, and your earlier ones, you haven't answered specific questions that could help you out, or give others offering advice, and better direction to lead you to a solution.

I really think you need to have a gear head come over and take a look at it, just to confirm what the probable cause and issues are.

You seem to be reluctant to tell anyone where you are located, and I'm not sure why...heck, you could have DavidG 2 miles away from you and in 10 minutes, eliminate 5 days of asking questions.

It is always satisfying to "fix it yourself", but sometimes a keener more experienced eye is needed.

Good luck!

[FrankWest]

Originally Posted by jim galli

Post 100. When I originally read your first post 3 weeks ago, I thought to myself, oh, sheared the teeth off the timing gear. Didn't say anything because I figured that would be obvious to the folks here. Don't get discouraged. If 100,000 farmers and ranchers could take it apart and put a new gear on, you probably can too. But we still don't know if that's what happened.

Thanks for your encouraging comments.
I am stumbling along but enjoy the fact that I am learning and feel like I am part of the 1930's.
I almost bought an already restored car but I am happy with this 95% original 1933 ford because now I am learning about the car. My plans are to keep this car and use and repair it myself for the rest of my life. Tomorrow morning I will take off the timing gear side port to see the condition of the gear.
Strange, but I have many repair books and service bullitons but no show how to replace the timing gear/gears? Well I will see tomor/row.
Thanks again....

[Bob C]

Frank, You might want to get the "Model A Mechanics Handbook--Vol 1".
There are a lot of things that are similar, like changing the timing gear,
between the Model A and your 1933.
Here's a link http://www.brattons.com/product.asp?...=any&PT_ID=all

Bob

[George/Maine]

Do you have a spark plug wrench or a adjustable wrench.
A big step for tomorrow remove the spark plugs.
Now if the can turn engine over look and see if the VALVESS are moving.

[Bob C]

I think somebody forgot to take their medication.

[dean333]

George you need to keep it clean. A good idea is to take a remedial English class too. You try to give advice but nobody can understand what you're trying to say because of your poor sentence structure and lack of punctuation in the correct place.