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Old 05-30-2018, 02:19 PM   #1
gustafson
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Default Beware

Know of a guy who tried to install a new Brassworks rad. Only problem is lower outlet way too small, hose way too loose. Beware

Last edited by gustafson; 05-30-2018 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 05-30-2018, 02:30 PM   #2
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Just tried to install a new Brassworks rad. Only problem is lower outlet way too small, hose way too loose. When queried, they said they only had the 1 1/2" diam size in stock, and that it didn;t make any difference, since Ford did not have a spec for the outlet anyway. Guy was rude, as well. Told me to wrap duct tape around it and be happy. Now I have a $785 radiator which is useless. No returns.


Berg's and others are looking good right now
Be sure to send them a link to this post, they (especially their management) should find it interesting. I am sure Ford had a spec for that outlet since they all came out the same size. It is called a drawing. Let us know if anything improves.

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Old 05-30-2018, 05:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Beware

Co says Ford's drawing had no size. Their suggestion was to wrap friction tape around lower outlet......................................
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:45 PM   #4
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that's BS and we all know it....
The vendors that make the hoses seems to know the correct size
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Beware

yea even on brassworks website they claim the outlets they measured were 1 11/16 so they went with 1 5/8"? said if it fits loose wrap duct tape around the outlet then slip the hose on... Yea thats great quality...

Go with Bergs - pricey but have heard nothing bad about the radiators or the company. looks like brassworks went to China or Vietnam for labor or tooling or something. For what you pay for one it should be a nearly drop in and go item with all the holes lined up.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:11 AM   #6
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Return that piece of junk,demand a full refund,idiots,wrap tape around it!Thanks for the heads up about the quality.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:47 AM   #7
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Shame on them! Too blatant error...If, as they said, Ford drawing did NOT have size, They should have held up production until they had the specs. If they could not obtain they specs they should have corresponded with you and found out what size hose you would be using and where your purchased it.Then they could have designed to fitting to fit your hoses.

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Old 05-31-2018, 07:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Beware

My experience was different. I drove over to the shop, got a tour and picked up my radiator. All dimensions were right on and it does the job. I still recommend Brassworks.
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:49 AM   #9
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In Holland we have a shop installing new Brasswork core, reusing your original upper and lower tank
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:50 AM   #10
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Been running Brassworks radiators in both my As for 15 years and never had a leak problem. Or any problem with heating.
Only problem I had was my cars ran too cool! Had to add 160 deg thermostats. . . .

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Old 05-31-2018, 02:19 PM   #11
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I had a Brassworks on my coupe, the only problem I had was the mounting holes were never drilled so I had to drill them out. Made me wonder how that passed inspection but it is a nice cool running radiator. I should note, the hoses fit nicely.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:13 PM   #12
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Just a ignorant question. Why if the lower pipe diameter is to small couldn’t you you a muffler tailpipe expander to increase the diameter or size of the pipe with out much difficulty. I use to do on other radiators when the size was off. I can’t see why it would be any different just because it was a model a radiator .
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:16 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
that's BS and we all know it....
The vendors that make the hoses seems to know the correct size



That's funny right there because evidently you don't know either!!


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Old 05-31-2018, 03:30 PM   #14
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Shame on them! Too blatant error...If, as they said, Ford drawing did NOT have size, They should have held up production until they had the specs. If they could not obtain they specs they should have corresponded with you and found out what size hose you would be using and where your purchased it.Then they could have designed to fitting to fit your hoses.


OK, this has been discussed on another forum already so some of this is redundant but the truth of the matter is there is way more to this than what some are giving credit for. First-off, this information is posted on their website, so a prospective buyer who is prudent will look at all the info FIRST before they place the order.

FWIW, I have looked and I'm pretty sure the original print of the water connector is NOT at the archives. Maybe you can find it, but I have the same print as Lee does for the A-8005-B Assembly Drawing, ...and he is correct that the dimensions are not listed on that print. If you will take note, he explains that he has original tanks to use as samples and he knows what the correct size is supposed to be. His problem is he can build it correctly but the hose manufacturers don't.


Now here is why this entire thread is SO asinine is that if someone really wants to have a the best experience, you send Brassworks your radiator shell AND you specify whether you are using the off-shore brand of reproduction hoses, the US-manufactured reproduction hoses, --or original Ford-made hoses. They can assemble your radiator that will give years of service where everything fits perfectly. If you don't want to spend the effort upfront, then do you really have the right to bitch, ….especially if the manufacturer is very upfront about these issues and prints them on their website for everyone to read??.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:33 PM   #15
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Default Re: Beware

There is a slight problem to be dealt with here, sir, and that is that Vince Falter says the original hose size is 1 3/4
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/Radi...nstruction.htm
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:35 PM   #16
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The trouble with this & other 'bad part' rants is you only hear one side of the story.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:13 AM   #17
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Amen!
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:30 AM   #18
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The trouble with this & other 'bad part' rants is you only hear one side of the story.
A person from BW is posting in the thread mentioned on another site about this issue.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:30 AM   #19
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Default Re: Beware

I have never read about this problem with brassworks radiators in the past. What has changed I wonder?
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:41 AM   #20
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Default Re: Beware

Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
OK, this has been discussed on another forum already so some of this is redundant but the truth of the matter is there is way more to this than what some are giving credit for. First-off, this information is posted on their website, so a prospective buyer who is prudent will look at all the info FIRST before they place the order.

FWIW, I have looked and I'm pretty sure the original print of the water connector is NOT at the archives. Maybe you can find it, but I have the same print as Lee does for the A-8005-B Assembly Drawing, ...and he is correct that the dimensions are not listed on that print. If you will take note, he explains that he has original tanks to use as samples and he knows what the correct size is supposed to be. His problem is he can build it correctly but the hose manufacturers don't.


Now here is why this entire thread is SO asinine is that if someone really wants to have a the best experience, you send Brassworks your radiator shell AND you specify whether you are using the off-shore brand of reproduction hoses, the US-manufactured reproduction hoses, --or original Ford-made hoses. They can assemble your radiator that will give years of service where everything fits perfectly. If you don't want to spend the effort upfront, then do you really have the right to bitch, ….especially if the manufacturer is very upfront about these issues and prints them on their website for everyone to read??.
.


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Brent,

I have to agree with your statement. I visited the Brassworks shop a year ago when we were in Cental California and that is how he explained it to me. He said bring in your radiator or send it to him and he will take measurements so it will fit your car. If you prefer, he can re-core your Radiator.

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Old 06-01-2018, 08:41 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
I have never read about this problem with brassworks radiators in the past. What has changed I wonder?

Someone said on FB or VFF that there was an ownership change and after that the new "management" style was introduced!!

Sounds very similar to the attitude at a well known company.

They make some very good parts BUT they are NOT open to suggestions on how to improve and correct errors in their parts.

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Old 06-01-2018, 09:18 PM   #22
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Buy a Berg if you want a BS free experience.

http://www.bergsradiator.com/images/...A_Radiator.pdf

Berg I believe attends Hershey and Chicken-shay (Chickasaw) so pick it up there to save on shipping.
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Old 06-04-2018, 07:51 AM   #23
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There have been several posts from satisfied BW customers referencing purchases made years ago. The only posts referencing recent purchases have been complaints. Obviously something in the manufacturing process has changed. I understand the company has changed hands. 1 + 1 still equals 2
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:48 AM   #24
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There have been several posts from satisfied BW customers referencing purchases made years ago. The only posts referencing recent purchases have been complaints. Obviously something in the manufacturing process has changed. I understand the company has changed hands. 1 + 1 still equals 2

I agree.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:06 AM   #25
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I have experienced the rudeness from Brassworks also. I just don't use them anymore. No excuse for rudeness.
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Old 06-05-2018, 10:35 AM   #26
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BW has responded to the other thread. They did a lot of research, and have made changes to their production.
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Old 06-05-2018, 01:41 PM   #27
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I bought a surge tank from BW. It fits between the core and the shell. Nicely made but they didn't bother to drill holes in the mounting tabs. Why would they sell an unfinished product?
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Old 06-06-2018, 11:44 AM   #28
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I bought a surge tank from BW. It fits between the core and the shell. Nicely made but they didn't bother to drill holes in the mounting tabs. Why would they sell an unfinished product?

Geez, quite a few companies sell "unfinished" products, don't they?


Sheetmetal patch panels come unfinished and require shaping prior to welding in. New doors for roadsters & phaetons are only partially assembled and tack-welded together, and require fitting & finishing before painting. Wood kits come unfinished and require holes to be drilled and notches to be made. Bushings for many items in a Model-A require finishing. Brake drums must be machined before using, and brake shoes require arcing prior to using. Floor mats require trimming, window channel requires cutting to the correct length, Upholstery components like windlace, panels, etc. all require cutting to length and finishing. Fender welt requires cutting. Frame welt requires cutting & punching holes. How about radiator hoses, or fuel lines, or...?? I could go one, but so much of our hobby is designed around finishing or modifying what we purchase. Rarely is anything ready to install right out of the box or package. Now understand, it could be ….however Model-A people are too cheap to pay the price to have it come 'ready to use'!


In the case of the radiator, I guess I just don't get what folks are bitching about in this thread. There are so many components in Model-A restoration where the manufacturer will custom-make to exacting fits if you provide exact measurements and specifications of your needs HOWEVER it requires effort and pre-planning on your part. It seems most here are too lazy and are seeming expecting/demanding a little too much without the willingness to put forth a little effort.


For example, if you want a glass kit, you can order one and hope it fits (-which all of them usually don't) -or you can send the Glazier detailed measurements and they will cut each glass piece for an exact fit. The same goes for upholstery. You can have the kit supplier sew-up a generic kit and when you receive it you hope it fits, --OR you send them the measurements of your springs, panels, bow locations, etc., and they will custom sew a kit that looks perfect when installed. How about a wood kit, you can let them custom cut to your body, --or you accept the wood however it comes. As mentioned above, in the case of the radiator, if you send your radiator shell and hose sizes, you will get a very nice piece. Blaming someone else for something you were "hoping for" or expecting should have never been a reason to start this topic from my vantage point.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:04 PM   #29
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Brent,
I have read this complete thread and completely agree with everything you are saying. Do remember reading a past thread that bashed over this same topic.

Where I think the difference lies........... is the point of rudeness.
Nobody enjoys spending their well earned money and being treated rudely. That seems to be a common theme here.

I have had absolutely no experience with BW and dont have an opinion either way.
Just what I am reading here.
All points seem to be valid.
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Old 06-06-2018, 01:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Geez, quite a few companies sell "unfinished" products, don't they?


Sheetmetal patch panels come unfinished and require shaping prior to welding in. New doors for roadsters & phaetons are only partially assembled and tack-welded together, and require fitting & finishing before painting. Wood kits come unfinished and require holes to be drilled and notches to be made. Bushings for many items in a Model-A require finishing. Brake drums must be machined before using, and brake shoes require arcing prior to using. Floor mats require trimming, window channel requires cutting to the correct length, Upholstery components like windlace, panels, etc. all require cutting to length and finishing. Fender welt requires cutting. Frame welt requires cutting & punching holes. How about radiator hoses, or fuel lines, or...?? I could go one, but so much of our hobby is designed around finishing or modifying what we purchase. Rarely is anything ready to install right out of the box or package. Now understand, it could be ….however Model-A people are too cheap to pay the price to have it come 'ready to use'!


In the case of the radiator, I guess I just don't get what folks are bitching about in this thread. There are so many components in Model-A restoration where the manufacturer will custom-make to exacting fits if you provide exact measurements and specifications of your needs HOWEVER it requires effort and pre-planning on your part. It seems most here are too lazy and are seeming expecting/demanding a little too much without the willingness to put forth a little effort.


For example, if you want a glass kit, you can order one and hope it fits (-which all of them usually don't) -or you can send the Glazier detailed measurements and they will cut each glass piece for an exact fit. The same goes for upholstery. You can have the kit supplier sew-up a generic kit and when you receive it you hope it fits, --OR you send them the measurements of your springs, panels, bow locations, etc., and they will custom sew a kit that looks perfect when installed. How about a wood kit, you can let them custom cut to your body, --or you accept the wood however it comes. As mentioned above, in the case of the radiator, if you send your radiator shell and hose sizes, you will get a very nice piece. Blaming someone else for something you were "hoping for" or expecting should have never been a reason to start this topic from my vantage point.

I disagree! When the manufacturer states, "Each radiator is tested with an original Ford shell to assure general fit, appropriate neck placement and accurate mounting bracket placement. " and it does not fit or is missing holes are you saying I only have myself to blame?

If a vendor advertises proper fit and finish on ANY product and it is not I guess that's my fault as well.

If I send you a Ford to restore and you send me back a Chevy I guess that's my fault as well since I expected my Ford back but did not specify it in the contract.

In this case, the manufacturer stopped all manufacture of the radiator in question, double checked his information, spent money to receive rush research documentation, found they actually were making it wrong and promised to make them correct with the correct dimensions from this point forward. That is a manufacturer I will deal with! We all make mistakes but if we follow your advice above, Mitch should have just sent all the measurements to them and had them make, and charge him, for a custom radiator as we should not expect them to provide what they advertise.
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Old 06-06-2018, 04:36 PM   #31
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I have a Brassworks radiator in my '29. Bought it 2 years ago and aside from a slight problem fitting it into my repro shell, it works just fine. I'm very happy with it. Ned
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Old 06-06-2018, 06:47 PM   #32
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Brent,
I have read this complete thread and completely agree with everything you are saying. Do remember reading a past thread that bashed over this same topic.

Where I think the difference lies........... is the point of rudeness.
Nobody enjoys spending their well earned money and being treated rudely. That seems to be a common theme here.

I have had absolutely no experience with BW and dont have an opinion either way.
Just what I am reading here.
All points seem to be valid.


I am often construed as rude & arrogant. I have no problem with that because I tell the facts and let others make decision based on their own agenda. Since we were not there to hear the tone of both sides, we are only going on hearsay as to who was rude. We live in a different society now where the customer is not always right.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida View Post
I disagree! When the manufacturer states, "Each radiator is tested with an original Ford shell to assure general fit, appropriate neck placement and accurate mounting bracket placement. " and it does not fit or is missing holes are you saying I only have myself to blame?

If a vendor advertises proper fit and finish on ANY product and it is not I guess that's my fault as well.

If I send you a Ford to restore and you send me back a Chevy I guess that's my fault as well since I expected my Ford back but did not specify it in the contract.

In this case, the manufacturer stopped all manufacture of the radiator in question, double checked his information, spent money to receive rush research documentation, found they actually were making it wrong and promised to make them correct with the correct dimensions from this point forward. That is a manufacturer I will deal with! We all make mistakes but if we follow your advice above, Mitch should have just sent all the measurements to them and had them make, and charge him, for a custom radiator as we should not expect them to provide what they advertise.

Again, Mike ...we will remain friends but choose to disagree. Maybe the underlying problem is most restorers today do not realize that some items are hand-crafted and there is a human element that goes into it.


For example, I have Snyders make me seat springs and I get charged for as custom spring. While they claim they are made to original prints & samples, their 'out-of-the-box springs do not always fit correctly enough for my standards. The same applies for upholstery, wiring harness', sheetmetal. mufflers, you name it. Many of these items are claimed to be made from a print but sometimes their dimensions are not exact & universal. I guess some of this is due to the nature that many hobbyist are not restorers and do not have the experience, comprehension, nor talent to be able to handle anything outside of an exacting fit.


Does anyone not find it very ironic that there are many of us that can testify that we have not experienced a problem with BW?? My point is there are certain Model-A items that are reproduced where every one of them is poor and the quality level is always low. In this situation, there are quite a large percentage that do not have an issue with their hand-crafted radiator yet many who have never even purchased a BW radiator seem to want to jump onto the bandwagon and bitch about the quality of an item they have never purchased, ...and they are only going on the hearsay of someone who had a bad experience because he really didn't pay attention to the details when it was ordered. This just isn't right, ….and I don't care if you disagree with me or not.


Just so you know, Lee and I have exchanged several e-mails on this topic, and I have not found him to be anything other than accommodating and trying to offer what the customer needs. It sure would be a nice gesture if more hobbyists who do not have the talent nor the tools to restore would start treating some of these vendors with the same respect and try to be more accommodating to what the vendor is offering.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:00 PM   #33
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Is there more than one size of outlet pipe to the block? Would it not make sense to make the radiator outlet the same size as the pipe?? Or what am I missing?
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:43 PM   #34
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Brent you will never qualify as a consumer advocate
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:31 PM   #35
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Well, I guess we should ignore this type of information (see below) if we come across it. We need to personally have a disaster with a supplier or service provider for it to matter; we cannot learn or base decisions or offer advice to others based on other people's experiences? (key extract from this link is below):

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1292108836


By Philip Trow on Monday, November 01, 2010 - 06:42 am:
"I got an e-mail from lee at Brassworks the other day, all he wanted to know was how he could make a better product in the future but nothing about helping me witn my current problems

Phillip -
I understand we lost your business but I am still interested in making a better product.

I re-read through all your postings again and looked at the photos a second time.
I am unable to see anything but a water stain in the photo. Another photo posted on the forum by your friend shows water stains all over the radiator.

There is no joint or seam in the Ford logo - it is just embossed brass.
Is there water coming from the Ford Logo or is this a photo provided to show discoloration of the brass?

Please advise.

Lee


I told him it was comming from the stamped ford logo

then I got this one back


Well, as I said from the very beginning, I regret you had a problem.
We have not seen this before but brass is a metal and can shear at a stress point. It did in 1915 and it can in 2010.
The radiator was tested for leaks before it was polished and painted back in the spring of 2007 when we made it.

I will look into it further to see if there is a way to prevent it in the future.

Thank you for the feedback.

Regards,

Lee


so all they care about is not helping me but getting me to help them make it better in the future not really very good business in my point of view"



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Old 06-07-2018, 02:09 AM   #36
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My comment doesn't have much to do with radiators but...
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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Geez, quite a few companies sell "unfinished" products, don't they?


Floor mats require trimming, window channel requires cutting to the correct length, Upholstery components like windlace, panels, etc. all require cutting to length and finishing. Fender welt requires cutting. Frame welt requires cutting & punching holes. How about radiator hoses, or fuel lines, or...?? I could go one, but so much of our hobby is designed around finishing or modifying what we purchase.
This is very handy for repairing/restoring other similar era cars for which parts are not available.
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Old 06-07-2018, 04:20 AM   #37
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Well, I guess we should ignore this type of information (see below) if we come across it. We need to personally have a disaster with a supplier or service provider for it to matter; we cannot learn or base decisions or offer advice to others based on other people's experiences? (key extract from this link is below):
Agreed. Quite a lot of sanctimonious long winded posts on this forum putting blame at the paying victims feet. I have always believed very much so in the saying where there’s smoke, there’s fire.

Main thing I got out of this topic is one company made a product that had no issues and another one that had issues effecting a numerous amount of our brothers and sisters and was dragging its feet with a solution (and sometimes not pleasant).
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Old 06-07-2018, 07:53 AM   #38
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I am often construed as rude & arrogant.
Don't guess anyone would argue with that sentence... Most of the rest of that epistle I find rude and arrogant, in addition to being wrong. If you advertise something to fit, it should do just that. Anything less than "fits" and it is no better than the crap we get out of China.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:23 AM   #39
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Returned defective radiator see letter that was sent to BW about defective radiator.
Call from Brasswork 03-14-11, they said that they were building my Radiator.
Call from Brasswork 03-23-11, Billing lady asked for credit card to charge me to ship the radiator to me. I asked to speak with Lee. Lee said that I should pay for the shipping and that he is not in business to send free shipping. I told Lee that I had to pay $75 to ship a defective radiator back, and that I should be paid the $75 for returning a defective radiator and not have to pay to have it replaced. Lee said that he was not going to pay for the return shipping and the shipping of the replacement radiator. Lee said that he would just refund $595 the original cost of the radiator. He asked me for my credit card so he could put the charges back on the credit card. I said just send me a check for $595 plus the $75 that I had to pay for return shipping of a defective radiator.
He did send me a check for $595, but no money for return shipping for a defective radiator.
Five eights of an inch too low.pdf
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Old 06-07-2018, 06:05 PM   #40
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Like WOW!
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:05 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C View Post
Geez, quite a few companies sell "unfinished" products, don't they?


Sheetmetal patch panels come unfinished and require shaping prior to welding in. New doors for roadsters & phaetons are only partially assembled and tack-welded together, and require fitting & finishing before painting. Wood kits come unfinished and require holes to be drilled and notches to be made. Bushings for many items in a Model-A require finishing. Brake drums must be machined before using, and brake shoes require arcing prior to using. Floor mats require trimming, window channel requires cutting to the correct length, Upholstery components like windlace, panels, etc. all require cutting to length and finishing. Fender welt requires cutting. Frame welt requires cutting & punching holes. How about radiator hoses, or fuel lines, or...?? I could go one, but so much of our hobby is designed around finishing or modifying what we purchase. Rarely is anything ready to install right out of the box or package. Now understand, it could be ….however Model-A people are too cheap to pay the price to have it come 'ready to use'!


In the case of the radiator, I guess I just don't get what folks are bitching about in this thread. There are so many components in Model-A restoration where the manufacturer will custom-make to exacting fits if you provide exact measurements and specifications of your needs HOWEVER it requires effort and pre-planning on your part. It seems most here are too lazy and are seeming expecting/demanding a little too much without the willingness to put forth a little effort.


For example, if you want a glass kit, you can order one and hope it fits (-which all of them usually don't) -or you can send the Glazier detailed measurements and they will cut each glass piece for an exact fit. The same goes for upholstery. You can have the kit supplier sew-up a generic kit and when you receive it you hope it fits, --OR you send them the measurements of your springs, panels, bow locations, etc., and they will custom sew a kit that looks perfect when installed. How about a wood kit, you can let them custom cut to your body, --or you accept the wood however it comes. As mentioned above, in the case of the radiator, if you send your radiator shell and hose sizes, you will get a very nice piece. Blaming someone else for something you were "hoping for" or expecting should have never been a reason to start this topic from my vantage point.
Brent,
I have enjoyed reading and learning from your posts since joining this forum. However, I find your position on this thread disturbing. You have criticized the Model A community as being too cheap to pay for a component or assembly that correctly meets the need with respect to form, fit, and function and stressed the need for customers to become more involved in accurately specifying what they really want or need. For a vehicle that has been around for 90 years, is it really too much to expect that a part ordered from one of the several suppliers will be received as advertised. Unless customers complain about parts that do not fit and/or poor service, nothing will ever improve.
Sorry, my fellow Tennessean, but I must disagree with you on this one.
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:33 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by kd4lok View Post
Brent,
I have enjoyed reading and learning from your posts since joining this forum. However, I find your position on this thread disturbing. You have criticized the Model A community as being too cheap to pay for a component or assembly that correctly meets the need with respect to form, fit, and function and stressed the need for customers to become more involved in accurately specifying what they really want or need. For a vehicle that has been around for 90 years, is it really too much to expect that a part ordered from one of the several suppliers will be received as advertised. Unless customers complain about parts that do not fit and/or poor service, nothing will ever improve.
Sorry, my fellow Tennessean, but I must disagree with you on this one.

He is right about being cheap, call a vendor that has good, better, and best and ask them which they sell the most of, they will tell you good (which most times aint that good).


I do agree with you that if a vendor advertises a part as being made to factory drawings it really should be made to factory drawings. We should not have to spell out exactly the dimensions of parts, referring to, and possibly even including copies of factory drawings to a vender that has been in business for many years.


With that said, who would know better then a person that restores cars, and mostly A and T's, that the vendors of the parts are lying, no let me change that to wrong, about what they provide.
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Old 06-08-2018, 07:08 AM   #43
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Default Re: Beware

I have a Berg radiator in my Roadster (2011), and a BW in my Cabriolet (2015) and both are good products. While I agree that for the price we pay for either of them they should be right, sometimes our other repop parts don't fit too well so we have to make adjustments. That said, a friction tape repair doesn't cut it in my book! I would either look for a smaller hose, or expand the outlet.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:05 AM   #44
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Wasn't it Henry F who started this whole "standardized parts, so they all fit properly" thing? (And that was before we had all these free measuring tapes from Harbor Fright!)

Attitude? That is a whole different ball of wax. In customer support, when I meet a bad or uncooperative attitude, I find a new vender. Amen (That means, "End of story" for you guys who quit going to church when your mom stopped twisting your ear.).

PS By the way, if you have decent tanks, you can probably do a recore for half the price if it's not a high point car. I use Hart radiator in Kelso WA. Old school, and quality work on my Avanti rad., looks exactly like the original, $299.00. Ford tractor rad came out fine too, same price if I recall correctly, but at my rather advanced age, the Mrs tells me everyday how I've remembered something wrong (see, she is perfect, you know. Lucky for me she does not read this forum!)
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:34 AM   #45
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Default Re: Beware

I have purchased about 15 new radiators over the last ten years from Brassworks and have not had any of the issues described in this thread. The only modifications I have made to any of them is slightly bend the bottom shroud bracket to get the best fit to the hood.
Brassworks: My experience has been only good.
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:02 AM   #46
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As indicated in the 'other' thread, BW determined, after examining Ford prints, that the outlet size on their '30 and '31 radiators was too small. They said they would change them to the same size as the '28 and '29 outlets - which were already correct.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:48 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gustafson View Post
Know of a guy who tried to install a new Brassworks rad. Only problem is lower outlet way too small, hose way too loose. Beware
My 1930 Radiator, on the car I purchased just was beyond use. The car had been a cosmetic showroom vehicle and not really used. I did some looking around, and found a fellow on ebay, which can be kind of scary, but, I took a chance and bought a radiator from him. He is in Crystal Lake, Illinois. The radiator was a little over $500 plus shipping and came with a warranty. Installation of this radiator showed up one difference in the top neck length but other than that a perfect fit, and no more overheating. It has 9 fins per inch flat fin style, and has three rows of about 100 tubes ( a bit more than the one I took off). And all the hoses fit perfectly and comparing apples and oranges here, Brassworks wants about $600 for their modern pipe radiator.

For some that are just getting into the joy of working on and repairing of Model A's, some new parts made for model A's some times require some TLC and ingenuity to get them fitting right.
Here is the title on ebay of the radiator I purchased! His feedback is 100%
"Brand NEW Ford Model A Radiator HEAVY DUTY 1930 1931 Aftermarket BRASS & COPPER"
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:02 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DHZIEMAN View Post
My 1930 Radiator, on the car I purchased just was beyond use. The car had been a cosmetic showroom vehicle and not really used. I did some looking around, and found a fellow on ebay, which can be kind of scary, but, I took a chance and bought a radiator from him. He is in Crystal Lake, Illinois. The radiator was a little over $500 plus shipping and came with a warranty. Installation of this radiator showed up one difference in the top neck length but other than that a perfect fit, and no more overheating. It has 9 fins per inch flat fin style, and has three rows of about 100 tubes ( a bit more than the one I took off). And all the hoses fit perfectly and comparing apples and oranges here, Brassworks wants about $600 for their modern pipe radiator.

For some that are just getting into the joy of working on and repairing of Model A's, some new parts made for model A's some times require some TLC and ingenuity to get them fitting right.
Here is the title on ebay of the radiator I purchased! His feedback is 100%
"Brand NEW Ford Model A Radiator HEAVY DUTY 1930 1931 Aftermarket BRASS & COPPER"

His prices must have gone up - the 9 fin per inch version is now listed at $585 and the 6 fin per inch version at $530.
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Old 06-14-2018, 04:50 PM   #49
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This was addressed on the other forum. Its always best to call us directly as we do not monitor the forums with the frequency we would like.



06-04-2018, 05:27 PM


An issue was raised regarding a dimension on a 1930-31 lower outlet and/or hose connection. I appreciate your patience while I collected all relevant information. The purchaser (Mitch) notified us and then returned the radiator to the distributor he bought it from. He has been refunded and has posted on his forum. We stopped all Model A production for a few days to investigate.

In the absence of a dimension on the Ford radiator prints we take the dimension from the OE radiators we have collected. This is the case of the lower hose connections. The dimension of the lower hose outlet on several 1930-31 Fords we have measures 1.6875-1.7”. We have relied on this dimension for years and have not made any changes to the specification. We believe the radiators to be original Ford based the consistency of all other dimensions, the die stamped parts and core construction.

With help from The Henry Ford Museum we have identified six prints related to the lower hoses used in Model As. The part was revised several times between 1927 and 1949 and we have procured and reviewed the final print dates for the lower outlet of each Model A production year. The May 1930 Ford prints show 1-5/8”D, 1-3/4”D and 1-13/16”D. One would immediately presume that the 1-5/8” is the ID of the formed part and the 1-3/4” is the OD of the formed part and the 1-13/16” is the OD of the rolled bead. This would suggest a .0625” wall thickness and yet the Ford print also has a material callout of soft brass #17 .042 - .046. This is curious. The 1-5/8” might also indicate the leading edge of the radius which would restrict, albeit marginally, the flow rate.

Additionally we reviewed the prints of hoses and the return pipes. The ID from the Ford prints of the hoses is 1-3/4”. We also collected and dimensioned the two of the three available hoses sold to Model A aftermarket. The third has not arrived. In fitment tests, the hoses tested fit over the present tube and bead and all would secure with a hose clamp and naturally did fit more “snug” with the 1-3/4”.

We would encourage anyone installing a radiator to measure the ID of the hose they intend to use before they replace their hoses.

Based on our interpretation of the information from Ford in the outlet, hose, return pipe, the size of hoses sold in the aftermarket we are going to call the lower outlet 1-3/4” OD and the bead 1-13/16” OD and we will grow our outlet to this specification in the 1930-31 radiators. The 1928-29 OE radiators measured 1-3/4”, the prints indicate 1-3/4”and we have always used this size so there will be no change.

Thank you to Jim Orr at The Henry Ford Museum for expediting the print request, Vince Falter at FordGarage.com for his helpful information and time dimensioning his collection of OE return pipes, the hose suppliers for sending samples and Jeff Kichline at Brattons for sharing various Ford prints from their collection. And, lastly, thanks to Mitch for calling it to our attention.


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Old 06-14-2018, 10:18 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by The Brassworks View Post
This was addressed on the other forum. Its always best to call us directly as we do not monitor the forums with the frequency we would like.



06-04-2018, 05:27 PM


An issue was raised regarding a dimension on a 1930-31 lower outlet and/or hose connection. I appreciate your patience while I collected all relevant information. The purchaser (Mitch) notified us and then returned the radiator to the distributor he bought it from. He has been refunded and has posted on his forum. We stopped all Model A production for a few days to investigate.

In the absence of a dimension on the Ford radiator prints we take the dimension from the OE radiators we have collected. This is the case of the lower hose connections. The dimension of the lower hose outlet on several 1930-31 Fords we have measures 1.6875-1.7”. We have relied on this dimension for years and have not made any changes to the specification. We believe the radiators to be original Ford based the consistency of all other dimensions, the die stamped parts and core construction.

With help from The Henry Ford Museum we have identified six prints related to the lower hoses used in Model As. The part was revised several times between 1927 and 1949 and we have procured and reviewed the final print dates for the lower outlet of each Model A production year. The May 1930 Ford prints show 1-5/8”D, 1-3/4”D and 1-13/16”D. One would immediately presume that the 1-5/8” is the ID of the formed part and the 1-3/4” is the OD of the formed part and the 1-13/16” is the OD of the rolled bead. This would suggest a .0625” wall thickness and yet the Ford print also has a material callout of soft brass #17 .042 - .046. This is curious. The 1-5/8” might also indicate the leading edge of the radius which would restrict, albeit marginally, the flow rate.

Additionally we reviewed the prints of hoses and the return pipes. The ID from the Ford prints of the hoses is 1-3/4”. We also collected and dimensioned the two of the three available hoses sold to Model A aftermarket. The third has not arrived. In fitment tests, the hoses tested fit over the present tube and bead and all would secure with a hose clamp and naturally did fit more “snug” with the 1-3/4”.

We would encourage anyone installing a radiator to measure the ID of the hose they intend to use before they replace their hoses.

Based on our interpretation of the information from Ford in the outlet, hose, return pipe, the size of hoses sold in the aftermarket we are going to call the lower outlet 1-3/4” OD and the bead 1-13/16” OD and we will grow our outlet to this specification in the 1930-31 radiators. The 1928-29 OE radiators measured 1-3/4”, the prints indicate 1-3/4”and we have always used this size so there will be no change.

Thank you to Jim Orr at The Henry Ford Museum for expediting the print request, Vince Falter at FordGarage.com for his helpful information and time dimensioning his collection of OE return pipes, the hose suppliers for sending samples and Jeff Kichline at Brattons for sharing various Ford prints from their collection. And, lastly, thanks to Mitch for calling it to our attention.




This is what all manufacturers should do. Kudos to Brassworks for spending the time and money to research a problem and pledge to fix it!
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:33 AM   #51
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Default Re: Beware

Hello BW.
I guess there is no factory print for the recovery tank I purchased from you. That must be the reason that you didn't have any holes in the mounting tabs. I don't know why I expected to receive a finished part.
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Old 06-15-2018, 05:42 PM   #52
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Chris, he doesn't build to the prints as he said in his 1st post on the forum on 6/17/2010... He builds to "originals" he had on hand. Wait, but then he said he builds to prints...and Brent says you should expect to do work on parts you buy from vendors... Yesterday "the brassworks" said this was addressed on the other forum, but hasn't posted in 13 months....The words of the day " CUSTOMER SERVICE". SMH this problem should have been researched when the first customer actually went to the trouble to file a complaint with the BBB, Years ago.....asking only for there money back. That would have been a time to pledge and fix the problems. Puff puff pass....
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