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Old 06-07-2018, 02:12 PM   #21
Corley
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

I've only done 4, but I'm out of cores now. I think rockauto has them for $97 or so, but really a men's mall unit would be fine.

Or, if you don't mind big and ugly, an Olds HEI unit turns the proper direction and is easily reurved. You might check with Bubba's Ignitions, I suspect he is the one who bought up all the cheap ones on fleabay, but I don't know for sure. Might be able to get one from him all ready to drop in.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

i found your original post very interesting and bought one of the 25 dollar ones. i got a kick out of all the nay sayer's even thou you claimed it was working good on your car. a 25 dollar distributor just couldn't work no way you have to spend 500 dollars that's the only way because that's what everybody does. i enjoy these old machines as a lowbuck hobby i think it's sad when people turn cheap good ideal's into big buck business. the real fun is improving on the old cheaply and passing it on for other's as you have done. thank you
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

I just bought one off ebay for $30 with free shipping. Gotta try it...

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Old 06-07-2018, 07:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

I see them on fleebay for around 120$ canadian. Gettin closser
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:46 PM   #25
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

LowdownA. Pretty cool looking flatty in your avatar there, that looks like more fun than polishing nickel parts.

Emf. Go for it, you just might like it.

Beater. You are getting closer, but no cigar yet. They are out there, keep looking. Not really any hurry, so take your time.
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Old 06-07-2018, 10:04 PM   #26
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

I just looked and found this one on ebay. Is it the correct distributor Corley, or is it an earlier model? I noticed it didn't list as going into the '80s


Edit - Oops, forgot the link. Here it is https://www.ebay.com/itm/A1-Cardone-...kAAMXQUmFSjWb9

Lynn

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Old 06-08-2018, 08:35 AM   #27
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Sorry, that one is the older point type. It could be used, but you would miss out on the electronics part of the deal. The same modifications are required to use it though.
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Corely:
Did you do anything to lubricate the shaft?
Thanks
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Old 06-08-2018, 03:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Just grease on the bushings, like the rebuilders did. They are oil impregnated bushings.
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Corley:
OK Thanks
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:57 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corley View Post
Sorry, that one is the older point type. It could be used, but you would miss out on the electronics part of the deal. The same modifications are required to use it though.

I wondered about that after seeing it's discrepancy from the years of applications you posted earlier. Back to looking, I suppose. Thanks!


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Old 06-08-2018, 06:04 PM   #32
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Why not just convert a "B" distributor by installing a "lobe-sensor" Pertronix module?
I have done this to a "Helmet Distributor" on my Flathead V8. Works great, about $100.00, does need 12 volts tho
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:18 PM   #33
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
Why not just convert a "B" distributor by installing a "lobe-sensor" Pertronix module?
I have done this to a "Helmet Distributor" on my Flathead V8. Works great, about $100.00, does need 12 volts tho


no vacume advance then. actually that's what ive done, but no peronix just a modern breaker plate and points lots like them but in my experience petronix are not reliable enough
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Old 06-08-2018, 06:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kahuna View Post
Why not just convert a "B" distributor by installing a "lobe-sensor" Pertronix module?
I have done this to a "Helmet Distributor" on my Flathead V8. Works great, about $100.00, does need 12 volts tho

If you were replying to me, I have a "B" distributor that's going to need a good freshening. The Honda conversion just sounded like it has several advantages over the "B", especially the vacuum advance. If I don't have any luck finding someone with a lathe and some talent to machine I Honda distributor to work in my A, I'll probably just use the "B" distributor and leave it points, either old style or modern. The beauty of points is that even on the side of the road I could probably at least get it running again.....not so if the smoke blows out of an electronic distributor.


Lynn
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Old 06-08-2018, 10:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Late model vacuum /mechanical advance distributors were designed with emission control in mind,advancing the spark under no load peak vacuum conditions to lean the burn.This also strips deposits in the combustion chamber by raising combustion temperatures. I'm not so sure the long term effects are beneficial.
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Old 06-09-2018, 08:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Railcarmover View Post
Late model vacuum /mechanical advance distributors were designed with emission control in mind,advancing the spark under no load peak vacuum conditions to lean the burn.This also strips deposits in the combustion chamber by raising combustion temperatures. I'm not so sure the long term effects are beneficial.

Well, let's squash that right now, because it is simply not true. Centrifugal advance and vacuum advance were implemented by almost all auto makers in the 1930s, and had absolutely nothing to do with emmisions. Additionally, these advances do not increase operating temperatures, in point of fact, they have the opposite effect.


Yes, in the late 1960s, and even further into the 1970s, additional controls were added for emmisions, and ported vacuum was used with a meriad of other ideas to control emmissions, which had multiple negative effects. The use of the Honda distributor does not include any of these items/controls.


Really, railcarmover, you simply have not been fully informed/educated on this subject, and have made inaccurate statements. While the benefits of the vacuum advance on the model A engine may be minimal, given the archane nature of the beast with limited power output, they are in no way harmful in any aspect other than not looking "original".



Some people think that because most race cars don't use a vacuum advance, cars don't need them. Just think about the face application for a minute. They run with the throttle wide open, hence almost no vacuum. Of course a vacuum advance has no benefit there. But in your street car, vacuum is an indicator of the load on the engine, and the mixture involved at that instant. Remember, lean mixtures burn slower than richer mixtures, and when you put you foot in it, the engine takes in more A/F. The air compresses, but the fuel part doesn't, hence the mixture is denser, and urns faster. This faster burn requires a bit of spark retard to avoid pre-ignition.


The centrifugal advance takes care of having less time from firing off the mixture, until optimal force, which needs to occur at around 15-18 degrees after TDC, when engine speeds increase. The vacuum advance, takes care of allowing greater advance during periods of leaner mixtures, when the engine is under light loads, thus optimizing engine performance and economy.


This is not my theory, it is well established internal combustion ignition fired engine science, and is fact. The model A came out just as these things were being fully understood, and Henry was slow to accept them, but with the V8, he did include these items. Please educate yourself before making incorrect statements like those.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:29 AM   #37
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

Im quoting you here:

"The vacuum advance, takes care of allowing greater advance during periods of leaner mixtures, when the engine is under light loads, thus optimizing engine performance and economy."


It optimizes performance and economy by raising combustion temperature resulting in a hotter burn.Its not conjecture on my part,or misinformation,its fact.The impact of it on a model a engine might not be a benefit.I don't care about looking original,and I understand the driveability improvement vacuum advance allows.In my opinion a cooler 'wetter' combustion chamber provided by mechanical advance is superior to the clean burn hotter chamber of a dual advance distributor.I applaud your refitting and testing a Honda distributor,innovation creates progress.
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Old 06-09-2018, 11:28 AM   #38
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Railcarmover, I think you may be confusing "Lean Burn", with normal cruise conditions. "Lean Burn" only became possible/practical with the introduction of Fuel Injection, when mixtures could be controlled more precisely. "Lean Burn" as implemented in many modern vehicles with EFI, is activated after a cruise situation has been detected and maintained for a few seconds, when mixtures are leaned out to as much as 18:1, which causes a much slower burn, and timing is further advanced to account for that. You might be surprised to find as much as 50 degrees of advance at cruise on some modern EFI controlled cars that have implimented "lean burn".


This is not the same situation at all as normal cruise, (and a model A at cruise), where we have not influenced the mixture at all, just increased the timing advance by a few degrees when not under heavy load. This does NOT increase combustion temperatures, in fact as the engine's optimal pressure vs the time when the pressure is needed (15 - 18 degrees after tdc) is more closely reached, when these times match more perfectly than without this advance, temps go down, and the engine isn't fighting itself, and is better able to expel the hot gasses. This is all win-win.




So, I don't agree with your premise that more advance creates more heat. However, In the case of the model A, the biggest benefit from the vacuum advance is probably at idle speeds and slower car speeds, when the excessive retard of the FSI distributor does in fact cause overheating in situations like parades. Excessive retard causes overheating, excessive advance causes detonation. Either one can be disastrous to your engine.






The biggest advantage I see in the Honda dizzy is it is a cheap way to get both centrifugal advance and vacuum advance. But like I've said, I'm a CAMO.
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Old 06-09-2018, 12:46 PM   #39
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Im not a fan of FSI/pertronix,its basically a chinese copy of an industrial distributor with a pertronix module,the partner in the FSI company that did mapping and used a distributor machine with skill passed away,the remaining partner basically sells parts so the basic research has stopped. I have experience with combination distributors,and the ones used in the 70's-80's were mapped for a cleaner,hotter burn.That is my only question with your experiment,and I hope it doesn't create an issue,I'm a CAMO man myself.

run it hard, check your plugs for soot and measure your engine temp is my advice..or if your ambitious,pull your head after a few hundred miles see if your getting enough upper cylinder lubrication.Accelerated valve wear is a result of cleaner burn,if you have modern valves and pressed seats your golden.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:46 PM   #40
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Default Re: FSI distributor issue

"I have experience with combination distributors,and the ones used in the 70's-80's were mapped for a cleaner,hotter burn."


When Detroit went nuts with emmissions in the 70s and 80s. They went with ported vacuum for the distributor. Basically, ported vacuum does as you say, creates a hotter burn, by retarding the spark under various conditions. They also put various controls to further restrict when vacuum was applied to the advance chamber. A big part of their motivation was to get things hot enough so that the cat converter would light off. What a disaster that turned out to be. Greater retard meant higher temps, crappy mileage, and tuning issues, often making more pollution than without all that crap. The distributors sometimes even had a vacuum chamber to retard timing even further. A lot of decent engines went to the dumper because of that fiasco.


I assure you that we are not implementing anything like that with this dizzy. For all practical purposes, it is just like something from the 30s-60s, and very basic in design. You will not see any additional heat generated from this whatever.
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