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Old 04-13-2018, 09:19 AM   #1
katy
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Default Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

I'm planning on rebuilding the steering box on our '31. I see that Bratton's steering box rebuild kit doesn't include the worm. What's the likelihood that I will require a new worm? Or will the original still be in good enough shape to re-use it?
Tnx, Ken
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:29 AM   #2
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Katy...prolly unknown until you can examine the condition of the original.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

if the sector is worn the worm is worn. best to replace them both then you dont have to worry about it for your lifetime or your kids lifetimes.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:45 AM   #4
Great Lakes Greg
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

My two cents is the sector gets worn only on the two teeth, where the worm gets worn all the way around. Seen as how the lash between the two is adjusted tight in the middle and the full left / right lock is engineered to be looser, I don't think wear on the worm is important when it can be adjusted out on center by the normal procedure. I am sure opinions will vary.
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Old 04-13-2018, 09:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Just did mine a few months back.
Best to just change it out now, you're re-building it for a reason, do it all at one time and done.
Putting the worm gear on the shaft is tricky bussiness, it comes off easy with a press but going back on is a "whole" new adventure.
If I would have bought the worm gear with the shaft when I got the kit I would have saved $200, alot of time, frustration and would not have a extra (bent) shaft and an extra worm gear now.
If you go to press the gear on yourself you will have to mill down the shaft end a few thounsands to fit the new worm gear and you'll need a "tall" secure press, good luck there, even desiel shops don't have presses that big anymore.
And if the shaft is not set perfectly in the press "BAM", in less then a second you have a bent shaft.
Don't cheap out when it comes to the steering box, you'll be needing it everytime you take her out.
That's my experiance...your's may differ
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:02 AM   #6
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

If you don't replace both,It will very difficult to get adjusted
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:12 AM   #7
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great Lakes Greg View Post
My two cents is the sector gets worn only on the two teeth, where the worm gets worn all the way around. Seen as how the lash between the two is adjusted tight in the middle and the full left / right lock is engineered to be looser, I don't think wear on the worm is important when it can be adjusted out on center by the normal procedure. I am sure opinions will vary.


Your logic seems reasonable with the exception that much of the wear of a steering gearbox comes from rotating the steering wheel less than 90 from center in either direction, -so the worm never really gets worm completely. This is the same reasoning why the steering arm balls and the pitman arm ball always wear excessively in the 3 & 9 position instead of in a complete circle. What happens when adjusting the worm when worn in the center is if the backlash is adjusted out to compensate for the wear in the center, the clearance becomes too tight (i.e.: binds) when the sector teeth reach the ends of the worm.
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #8
frank mcdaniels
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

I did the same thing Keith was talking about and bent the shaft. Also kind of beat up the worm gear. I wound up having to buy a new shaft with the gear already on. It's awhile ago but I think it was in the 2 hundred dollar range. And I wasted most of a saturday. Good luck, Frank
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Old 04-13-2018, 10:36 AM   #9
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Do it right the first time.

Replace both. Now you know it is as good as it can be.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:32 AM   #10
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Replace both!! I had to pull mine apart a 2nd time and replace the worm gear to remove all the slop.
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Old 04-13-2018, 08:32 PM   #11
Alaska Mike
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Rebuilt mine this winter. Bought everything. Took the gear and shaft to a local machine/welding shop. They also service a lot of big trucks and tractors. Pressed the gear off the shaft with a 20 ton press. To put the gear back on, he kind of tapped it on the shaft with a brass hammer. Then laid a 12 inch square piece of aluminum that was 1/2 inch thick on the cement floor. Turned the shaft over, with the gear down, and slammed it in the piece of aluminum about 20 times, and it was on. He said that is how they do all the steering gears when guys are rebuilding old tractors. I had researched this for months, and planned and plotted all kinds of back up plans, and he made it look so easy.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:48 PM   #12
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Glad I wasn't there for that, I don't know if I could have contained myself.
Personally I drive my car a little bit faster than an old tractor.
You must have Saint Henry on your shoulder.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:07 AM   #13
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Thanks for all the info, I'll order a rebuild kit and a worm.
I have a 20 ton press that is up on blocks w/extensions hanging on the bottom so I can put long stuff in it.
I learned a long time ago to use a length of close fitting square tubing w/a heavy wall, on long pieces to keep them from bending, but I'll probably try that aluminum on the floor trick.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Chances are the bearing surfaces are pitted.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
Thanks for all the info, I'll order a rebuild kit and a worm.
I have a 20 ton press that is up on blocks w/extensions hanging on the bottom so I can put long stuff in it.
I learned a long time ago to use a length of close fitting square tubing w/a heavy wall, on long pieces to keep them from bending, but I'll probably try that aluminum on the floor trick.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
We all love a success story.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:43 AM   #16
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Quote:
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
It'll be a while, get the parts and then find time to do it. If'n I get a chance I'll pull the box ahead of time.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Katy - press the worm gear off with the press but, by all means, get Diablo A's video describing how to tap the shaft & drive the new gear on with an impact gun. I did the job this past winter. You'll need to be patient with the install but it works!

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Old 05-11-2018, 09:50 AM   #18
katy
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Well I received the rebuild kit and the worm. I notice the worm has some shallow splines in the ID. I'm assuming that this is telling me that it only goes on one way? Nothing I've read talks about that, just R&R the worm. I suspect that the worm needs to be lined up w/the keyway for the steering wheel.
Hopefully I can get started on it next week.
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Last edited by katy; 05-11-2018 at 09:51 AM. Reason: Addition
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Old 05-12-2018, 05:26 PM   #19
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Install it VERY CAREFULLY, so's your NEW WORM doesn't up & "DIE" on you!
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Old 06-12-2018, 09:09 AM   #20
katy
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

I finally got the steering box rebuild completed and adjusted. I used the "aluminum plate on a concrete floor" method to install the worm on the shaft, worked slicker than snot on a doorknob. The thickest aluminum I had was 1/8" and it took a beating, but it worked OK.
When I removed the worm from the shaft the gauge on the press showed less than 1 ton pressure.
Now to get it all back in the truck and buttoned up.
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Old 06-12-2018, 01:18 PM   #21
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

I have changed several 2 tooth worms over the years without using a press (which I dont have) . I put the shaft in a good heavy vice and wrap a piece of light cardboard around it so the shaft is not marked .(I suppose it doesnt really matter if it is) I heat the worm with the handheld propane torch,it does not need to be smokin hot . I use a brass drift and the worm will punch off . Rotate the drift to avoid bending the shaft although I doubt you could bend it with a drift . At first it is reluctant to move but once the worm is on the move it will come off,you might have to reheat . To install the worm it will go on easier than taking off . I do heat the worm a bit . Be sure to put the worm on the right way round or it will not go fully home . There is a relief bored in one end that is the end that goes on first . I use a fairly hefty brass or copper headed hammer ( called the "copper bopper" ! ) Hit it squarely so not to damage the end race .Use eye protection



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Old 06-13-2018, 12:37 PM   #22
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
I'm planning on rebuilding the steering box on our '31. I see that Bratton's steering box rebuild kit doesn't include the worm. What's the likelihood that I will require a new worm? Or will the original still be in good enough shape to re-use it?
Tnx, Ken
I am in the same boat here on do I or do I not replace the worm on my two tooth sector fix and sector bearing fix.

Here is my thinking on this, The adjustments on the steering box are to adjust for changes (wear). With that said, my view is that the steering sector replacement on my car, by observation, is the problem. All the slop in steering, seems to be in the sector bearing allowing it to kind of move around a bit.

I will replace the sector and sector bearing plate with a new bearing and two tooth sector, slap it all back together and adjust it per the method that can be found on the web for my Gemmer box.

If that works, I am all done, if not, well then I will spend the bucks to do the worm too!
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

I am really happy to hear that the "aluminum plate on the floor" method worked for someone else. I about lost it when the guy started pounding on that thing, but it worked! Glad it worked for someone else....
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:02 AM   #24
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Hi Alaska Mike, it was your posting back in February that prompted me to try that method, very simple and works slick. I did coat the shaft and the worm w/oil before the installation.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:03 PM   #25
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

It is much easier to heat the worm on a stove, and freeze the shaft. Install quick. I have done hundreds of them
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:07 AM   #26
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

Bill,
Didn’t you need to replace the worm in the bottom of your tequila bottle once?
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:26 PM   #27
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Default Re: Do I need a new worm in the steering box?

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Do it right the first time.

Replace both. Now you know it is as good as it can be.

My thoughts exactly !!! I replace them both . I don't risk bending the shaft . I order the shaft with the worm gear in place . It costs more but it is so much easier and turns out so much better .
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