Winter antifreeze

[Jedediah]

Greetings,
What do 'yall recommend as a good antifreeze for winter driving? I have heard and read that modern antifreeze is not good for the Model A system. Most articles on the subject assume that the car is not being used at all during the cold months.

[Bob Bidonde]

Where do all of the witches tales re Model A's come from? What you heard about modern antifreeze is total "BS." Go to Walmart and buy the least expensive one.

[noboD]

50-50 X 12 months a year.

[redmodelt]

Bob that is wrong info. Yes some of the new types of anti-freeze are not compatible with vintage cars. The ones to stay away from are the orange and extended life types. It would take more time then I have to type out all the info, but just google vintage cars and anti freeze.



https://forums.aaca.org/topic/166583...-antique-cars/
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages...tml?1336714053
https://citroenclassics.wordpress.co...ur-older-cars/
https://www.ncregionaaca.com/firstca...and-antifreeze

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Jedediah

I have heard and read that modern antifreeze is not good for the Model A system. Most articles on the subject assume that the car is not being used at all during the cold months.

Originally Posted by jw hash

It can wipe out your cylinders. and the antifreeze will eat up your bearings. That was one of the first lessons I learned the hard way years ago on a motor with only 700 miles on it, it was a .040 over now it is a .060 over.

Originally Posted by Bob Bidonde

Where do all of the witches tales re Model A's come from? What you heard about modern antifreeze is total "BS." Go to Walmart and buy the least expensive one.

When the last time this came up I put some pieces of babbitt the was unfortunately once my thrust bearing in a jar with concentrated Peak "Green Cap" (for use in pre 1989 cars) for a little experiment.

It has been in there for ~one month and I don't see any change. What exactly does the anti-freeze supposed to do to the babbitt.

I can see a problem if the engine was run and it was mixed with the oil but the same problem would occur with water mixing with the oil.

[redmodelt]

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Please read the information in the links I posted, this is not about NOT using anti-freeze it is about the TYPE to use.

[ModelAMike1930]

I use Menards 50/50 in both of mine. I buy it when its on sale.

[Benson]

...

[30 Closed Cab PU]

I prefer running distilled water/rust inhibitor in the summer and for storage green antifreeze 50/50. Simply and only because if a problem develops like; a leak, overheating through an ill fitting radiator cap, or steam you get antifreeze all over the engine bay and the outside of the car. Even inside the car if your at road speed with the front window open. A real mess, and can damage paint For those As in good enough shape this will never happen, antifreeze is good.


When draining antifreeze in the spring I save it in the original container. Then use it again in the fall when storing the car. Every year or two I add a bottle of rust inhibitor to ensure the rust inhibitor stays fresh.


I read somewhere if you use antifreeze, never mix types (green, orange, etc.) nasty things happen to the coolant. If you do want to change types you must thoroughly flush/backflush the cooling system after draining, and before filling with a different type.


Thats what I do and why.

[ryanheacox]

Has anyone run propylene glycol based antifreeze? Was reading that it might be better on old gaskets and much better for the environment should a leak occur.

Also, has anyone tried Evans waterless coolant?

I would say anything that's been around for a while (green ethylene glycol) would work well as antifreeze in an A. Didn't they use alcohol when these cars were new?

[Jw]

Originally Posted by Benson

...

Looking at Mt Evans right now, at I70 and Havana

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by ryanheacox

Has anyone run propylene glycol based antifreeze? Was reading that it might be better on old gaskets and much better for the environment should a leak occur.

Also, has anyone tried Evans waterless coolant?

I would say anything that's been around for a while (green ethylene glycol) would work well as antifreeze in an A. Didn't they use alcohol when these cars were new?

When I was having issues with overheating, some people were insistent I should runs Evans, that Evans would cure my overheating issues. I researched and actually emailed the company, decided not to, sorry can not remember the exact reason. One was cost, if I remember correctly it is pretty expensive.


So research it well, there were definite reasons besides cost why I did not do it, the old brain cells just are not working very well these days.

[Jedediah]

Thank you all for your thoughts, and the helpful links.

[Werner]

Hello,


don't use AntiFreeze for Aluminium engines. Simple glykol is o. k. Mix 50 : 50 with destilled water.



AntiFreeze does more than only anti freeze protection. It must do corosion inhibitor an lubricate the water pump too.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Please read the information in the links I posted, this is not about NOT using anti-freeze it is about the TYPE to use.

Yeah, The first one starts out "it has been in the car (1930) about 10 years I'm thinking I should put new anti-freeze in it."

Ya think???

[Redbird]

Use the green stuff!

[denis4x4]

Use Sierra or the NAPA pet friendly anti-freeze. Costs a bit more, but worth it if you love your pets and have a leaky A.

[lsr490]

There is a good article in this months Restorer.

[nhusa]

When my dad got sick in 1964 his 1919 Model T was just left in the barn with a 50-50 antifreeze mixture. 45 years later I got the car and after cutting the radiator cap off (Believe me I didn't want to cut it off but had no choice after week of trying different things) I found the mixture to still be good. I believe that it helped preserve the radiator and motor.


On the other hand the radiator of his 31 Model A was drained and it was significantly harder to deal with.


I run 50-50 all year round in both cars now.

[ursus]

QUOTE: [When the last time this came up I put some pieces of babbitt the was unfortunately once my thrust bearing in a jar with concentrated Peak "Green Cap" (for use in pre 1989 cars) for a little experiment.

It has been in there for ~one month and I don't see any change. What exactly does the anti-freeze supposed to do to the babbitt.

I can see a problem if the engine was run and it was mixed with the oil but the same problem would occur with water mixing with the oil.]

Soaking babbitt in antifreeze proves nothing. The real damage to babbitt occurs when the water is cooked out of the oil by engine heat, leaving behind a precipitate of the silicates commonly used as a leak preventative in ethylene glycol based antifreeze products. The silicates, which are not soluble in oil, then circulate in the crankcase as a fine abrasive that scrubs away the babbitt.

Back when the government had its "cash for clunkers" program to get old gas hogs off the road, they wanted to make sure the engines wouldn't be put back into use again. So, they added sodium silicate to the engine's crankcase and left them idling until the motor seized up.

[henry's 31]

Originally Posted by Jedediah

Greetings,
What do 'yall recommend as a good antifreeze for winter driving? I have heard and read that modern antifreeze is not good for the Model A system. Most articles on the subject assume that the car is not being used at all during the cold months.

50:50 mix GREEN only like Peak or any other brand that is GREEN. Most auto parts stores are not aware of this and will try to sell you the modern extended life antifreeze.

[Chris Haynes]

My car has a closed cooling system. I run Evans Waterless coolant. I have had no problems with it.
Evans Waterless is not recommended for open cooling systems.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

So you are saying the green has silicates?


I thought only OAT and modern Antifreezes have silicates.

Originally Posted by ursus

QUOTE: [When the last time this came up I put some pieces of babbitt the was unfortunately once my thrust bearing in a jar with concentrated Peak "Green Cap" (for use in pre 1989 cars) for a little experiment.

It has been in there for ~one month and I don't see any change. What exactly does the anti-freeze supposed to do to the babbitt.

I can see a problem if the engine was run and it was mixed with the oil but the same problem would occur with water mixing with the oil.]

Soaking babbitt in antifreeze proves nothing. The real damage to babbitt occurs when the water is cooked out of the oil by engine heat, leaving behind a precipitate of the silicates commonly used as a leak preventative in ethylene glycol based antifreeze products. The silicates, which are not soluble in oil, then circulate in the crankcase as a fine abrasive that scrubs away the babbitt.

Back when the government had its "cash for clunkers" program to get old gas hogs off the road, they wanted to make sure the engines wouldn't be put back into use again. So, they added sodium silicate to the engine's crankcase and left them idling until the motor seized up.

[Beater]

hmmmmm I have been running the GM orange stuff. dexcool extended life no probs so far

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

So you are saying the green has silicates?


I thought only OAT and modern Antifreezes have silicates.

Decided to look this up and got this from googling .




I can never seem to keep this info straight in my head for more than a couple of months. A lot of you probably already know some or all of this.




"Vehicle engines require coolants to keep them from overheating. In the past, there was only one kind of coolant (anti-freeze) and that was the green liquid. Today, there are two: The green coolant and the orange colored coolant, which is also known as Dexcool. Let’s look at these more closely.


The green coolant is an inorganic additive technology (IAT). With this type of coolant, phosphates along with silicates are added to ethylene glycol. This helps to protect the metals that are in the vehicle’s cooling systems from becoming corroded. There are some IAT coolants that use propylene glycol instead of ethylene glycol.


The orange coolants are organic acid technologies (OAT). These were created for newer vehicles that had more nylon and aluminum parts in them. OAT coolants use organic acids in order to prevent corrosion.


Some people believe that they can mix the two. This is a mistake and can lead to expensive repairs. The two coolants should never be mixed together as they do not react well. When mixed together they can form a thick, jelly-like substance that can completely stop all coolant flow which can lead to overheating. As the coolant stops flowing, other problems can occur as well such as happens with radiators, water jackets, and even heater cores. The water pump may overheat and stop working. In severe cases, head gaskets can blow, and heads may warp. The engine itself will encounter major damage.


As you can see, mixing the two is not a good idea. If mixing happens, it is best to have the entire system flushed before driving the vehicle. This is the only way to be sure that the system is clean and not at risk. Failure to perform this flushing can, and often does, lead to engine failure and costly repairs. It is better to take care of the problem before it gets much worse."

[redmodelt]

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It is suggest that changing over from one to the other, that is correct that the system should be flushed.

[Purdy Swoft]

Water with a small bottle of water pump lubricant runs cooler . I've never run antifreeze in the summer . Antifreeze is more likely to leak in the primitive cooling system . When I drove my model A's in winter , I used the green antifreeze , one gallon antifreeze mixed with two gallons of tap water .

[40 Deluxe]

Anybody here that owns or owned a mid-90's era GM/Chevy with a 350? Did you have to replace the intake gaskets, or worse, did you lose an engine? That acidic orange stuff would eat out the intake gaskets around the water ports in the heads and dump coolant into the crankcase. Also, they had an aluminum quick disconnect heater hose fitting on the back of the (aluminum) intake manifold that would corrode and leak. It would crumble when removing and leave a stub that had to be dug out and the manifold rethreaded.
Most GM vehicles that used Dex-Cool would build up a rusty orange sludge under the radiator cap and in the overflow bottle so GM released a video showing how to clean the system and prevent reoccurrence. As I remember, part of the "cure" was a special radiator cap and never let the overflow bottle get low. It seems exposure to oxygen would promote corrosion. Dex-Cool may be re-formulated now, but it gave us mechanics extra work in the past!