The Ford Barn

MrTube · 07-02-2012, 09:18 AM

Again I apologize for posting non "A" related things on the forum.

Have had no luck in other forums and I know many many people on the Fordbarn are knowledgeable in things like this.

I own an old house, but don't know how old it is as the towns records kind of stink. To give an idea of its age my house is built on a fieldstone foundation with balloon framing and type B cutnails.

If you know a lot of about older building techniques, styles and so on please send me a private message on Fordbarn or an email at [email protected]

RcT · 07-02-2012, 10:01 AM

No need to apologize... I, too, have had unrelated questions before. First, go to a well-established title company in your town and request a "Chain of Title" on your home. There will be a fee, but they should have the ability to research back to the original owner and when it was built.
Go to ebay or Amazon and look for an old set of Audel's books on carpentry, masonry, whatever, and you should find whatever trade you need. Good luck.

Richard

MrTube · 07-02-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RcT

No need to apologize... I, too, have had unrelated questions before. First, go to a well-established title company in your town and request a "Chain of Title" on your home. There will be a fee, but they should have the ability to research back to the original owner and when it was built.
Go to ebay or Amazon and look for an old set of Audel's books on carpentry, masonry, whatever, and you should find whatever trade you need. Good luck.

Richard

Hi Richard,

Would this information have been part of the title insurance we paid for when we bought the house a little over 1 year ago?

Bob C · 07-02-2012, 10:27 AM

If any of the sinks, toilets, or bath tubs are original to the house they usually
have dates cast or stamped on them.

Bob

MrTube · 07-02-2012, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

If any of the sinks, toilets, or bath tubs are original to the house they usually
have dates cast or stamped on them.

Bob

Hi Bob,

Unfortunately the original toilet is no longer present as it was an outhouse

. Sewers were not put in until 1910.

Patrick L. · 07-02-2012, 11:11 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Do you have a basement ?? Is the foundation or basement walls mortared/pointed or dry laid ?? Are the joists hewn flat on the top side, hand hewn on all sides or rough cut ?? What do your roof boards look like and how far apart are they ?? I guess dates can't be pinned down too closely as building styles are carried on for long times depending on areas and styles overlap depending on who does the building..
Have you hit any of those cut nails with the saw yet ??
How far back does the deed go ??

30Ford · 07-02-2012, 11:12 AM

My Mother has an old colonial home..well we replaced the flooring in the dining room and they used old news papers to level the floor..well one was the day they hung Louis Riel in 1885....also I was told that they sometimes stamped the dates on the front door striker plate..but I never looked my self.....by the was it had a 3 holer in the barn

MrTube · 07-02-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

Do you have a basement ?? Is the foundation or basement walls mortared/pointed or dry laid ?? Are the joists hewn flat on the top side, hand hewn on all sides or rough cut ?? What do your roof boards look like and how far apart are they ?? I guess dates can't be pinned down too closely as building styles are carried on for long times depending on areas and styles overlap depending on who does the building..
Have you hit any of those cut nails with the saw yet ??
How far back does the deed go ??

Partial basement. Field stone foundation which appears to have mortar in it and over it. Crawl spaces are bare fieldstone with mortar inbetween the rocks while the basement has been coated. All of the crawlspaces appear to be part of additions to me as the wood framing above them differs from the framing over the basement section. The last addition was done using concrete block to extend the length of the house. Framing above this is still full size lumber and has plaster walls.

Framing is full size rough cut lumber which has circular saw marks from the mill. My floor joists are 2x8 over a 15 foot span 24" centers. Rafters are 2x6, not sure on span but there is no ridge board.

House was originally heated by multiple wood or coal stoves. Looks like one or two in the basement and than two on the second floor near the bedrooms. Steam heat was installed around 1920 judging by the Kohler radiators. Have not cut into a cutnail yet.

This picture shows the basement section of the foundation as well as the winder stairs and an arm which was placed there to scare my mother.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...77360266_n.jpg

This is the front of the house. The porch, car port and bay window and aluminum siding are obviously not original. I also had to tear down the tiny brick chimney last year and install a B-vent.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...87807108_o.jpg

This is the attic over the newest section of the house which is built on concreteblock.
https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...53_43618_o.jpg

The wood floors are not original and it does not appear to have had "subfloors" but rather the subfloors were the finished floors at one time.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...3_419220_n.jpg

This picture is a bit strange.
Apparently the opening for the basement stairs was cut into the floor at a later date. This shows the joists which have been cut. Since this picture these have been removed as I moved the plumbing into that area to get it out of the stair well as can be seen in the first picture with the fake arm in it.

Point of the picture is to show how the floor joists are cut to sit on top of the sill. The white crap is plaster.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...01491815_o.jpg

Clydes 31 P/U · 07-02-2012, 12:27 PM

Mr Tube, Your place looks a lot like mine. Mine was built by my GGrandparents in 1873 I don't know if the area of the country would affect building styles much or not but my floor joists are blind mortised into 16" square hand hewn beams.

Patrick L. · 07-02-2012, 12:59 PM

All the pictures kinda look to me that everything adds up to a house built around, or a bit before, the turn of the last century.. Of course,, I could very well be wrong..
I'm not sure when concrete blocks started to become common place,, cider blocks were still used in this area thru the depression..
It'll get interesting when you try to saw thru one of those cut nails..

CHuDWah · 07-02-2012, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTube

This is the front of the house.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos...87807108_o.jpg

Just a suggestion FWIW:

Looks like the surrounding houses might be about the same age. If the neighbors know the vintage of theirs, maybe compare construction details to see if they match yours?

RcT · 07-02-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTube

Hi Richard,

Would this information have been part of the title insurance we paid for when we bought the house a little over 1 year ago?

No, I think it;s an extra fee.

I was looking at your pictures, and if I had to take a stab at the date, I would put it in the 1910-1920 range. Another clue, is that it appears to be built in a tract of similar homes. During this time, and earlier, one could order a complete home from Sears Roebuck, and it came all pre-cut, ready for assembly.

Another source might be a professional inspector, preferably a retired one, well-seasoned.

What does the electrical look like? wires on little insulators in the attic? Lathe and plaster walls? perfect, old forest timber, no knots in the floor joists or rafters? All this points to early 20th century construction.

One more clue; your title will give a description of the lot, the subdivision, the tract, and record maps exist of when the lots were created. Your local tax assessor will have that info.

Looks like a nice solid home. First priority is your electrical, make sure its in good shape. Then the plumbing. If water is moving slowly, crud has built up in the pipes. Then add insulation.

Just to make this thread legal, do you have a Model A Ford?

Richard

MrTube · 07-02-2012, 03:14 PM

I do not own a model A yet

But I do maintain my bosses which of course means I drive it plenty as well. Does that count?

gweilbaker · 07-02-2012, 05:09 PM

Uh-umm, the orange thingie is for the white stuff that accumulates on driveways during the winter months, it doesn't work too well on the grass.

I couldn't resist,
GW

Ross/Kzoo · 07-02-2012, 05:26 PM

If it's in a plat you can find out when the plat was recorded. If it's in a city or metropolitan area they used to have map records at the fire station or city with pertinent information to the fire dept. such as 1 1/2 story, woodframed, brick veneer etc.

2manycars · 07-02-2012, 08:41 PM

Sounds like your house was built around 1900, plus or minus 20 years. Balloon framing went out around 1930 in most places, as it is unsafe in a fire without firestops.
I love the color of that pickup!!

supergnat · 07-03-2012, 06:06 AM

Mr. Tube,
Another way to research your house in NJ is to take the lot and block number to your county property records department and research the title transfer records. Those records are usually pretty complete. The process takes a very long time due to the system used by the county but you may be successful in your search.
Supergnat from NJ

MrTube · 08-03-2012, 09:55 AM

Just wanted to update the thread.

I purchases Sanborn Fire Insurance maps for the area which gave me 8 maps from 1892,1897,1902,1909,1914,1924,1941,1961

The house was there in 1892 so I hunted down an 1887 directory for the county which for our town, did NOT have house numbers for the names so I'm out of luck going that route. For what its worth just about every house that is there now, is on the 1892 map.

I will continue to try and hunt down this information.

29ModelA · 08-03-2012, 11:10 AM

I was going to say that the construction looked even older than what was used in my home. I had books in the walls dated 1908.

mass A man · 08-03-2012, 01:57 PM

Almost identical to my house's construction, which was built in 1879 but many pieces were taken from a tear-down somewhere, near here I imagine, that date as far back to Pre-Revolution times. The Rebecca Nurse Homestead (1678) is near my house, she was hanged for being one of Satan's disciples on July 19, 1692. Her house was built with the lumber from a tear down from 1630.

07-02-2012, 09:18 AM	#1
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	NOT "A" old houses. Again I apologize for posting non "A" related things on the forum. Have had no luck in other forums and I know many many people on the Fordbarn are knowledgeable in things like this. I own an old house, but don't know how old it is as the towns records kind of stink. To give an idea of its age my house is built on a fieldstone foundation with balloon framing and type B cutnails. If you know a lot of about older building techniques, styles and so on please send me a private message on Fordbarn or an email at [email protected]

07-02-2012, 10:01 AM	#2
RcT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 451	Re: NOT "A" old houses. No need to apologize... I, too, have had unrelated questions before. First, go to a well-established title company in your town and request a "Chain of Title" on your home. There will be a fee, but they should have the ability to research back to the original owner and when it was built. Go to ebay or Amazon and look for an old set of Audel's books on carpentry, masonry, whatever, and you should find whatever trade you need. Good luck. Richard

07-02-2012, 10:27 AM	#4
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,751	Re: NOT "A" old houses. If any of the sinks, toilets, or bath tubs are original to the house they usually have dates cast or stamped on them. Bob

07-02-2012, 11:11 AM	#6
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Do you have a basement ?? Is the foundation or basement walls mortared/pointed or dry laid ?? Are the joists hewn flat on the top side, hand hewn on all sides or rough cut ?? What do your roof boards look like and how far apart are they ?? I guess dates can't be pinned down too closely as building styles are carried on for long times depending on areas and styles overlap depending on who does the building.. Have you hit any of those cut nails with the saw yet ?? How far back does the deed go ??

07-02-2012, 11:12 AM	#7
30Ford Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Eastern Canada NB Posts: 166	Re: NOT "A" old houses. My Mother has an old colonial home..well we replaced the flooring in the dining room and they used old news papers to level the floor..well one was the day they hung Louis Riel in 1885....also I was told that they sometimes stamped the dates on the front door striker plate..but I never looked my self.....by the was it had a 3 holer in the barn

07-02-2012, 12:27 PM	#9
Clydes 31 P/U Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: northern Il Posts: 302	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Mr Tube, Your place looks a lot like mine. Mine was built by my GGrandparents in 1873 I don't know if the area of the country would affect building styles much or not but my floor joists are blind mortised into 16" square hand hewn beams.

07-02-2012, 12:59 PM	#10
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: NOT "A" old houses. All the pictures kinda look to me that everything adds up to a house built around, or a bit before, the turn of the last century.. Of course,, I could very well be wrong.. I'm not sure when concrete blocks started to become common place,, cider blocks were still used in this area thru the depression.. It'll get interesting when you try to saw thru one of those cut nails..

07-02-2012, 03:14 PM	#13
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: NOT "A" old houses. I do not own a model A yet But I do maintain my bosses which of course means I drive it plenty as well. Does that count?

07-02-2012, 05:09 PM	#14
gweilbaker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lindenhurst, IL Posts: 792	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Uh-umm, the orange thingie is for the white stuff that accumulates on driveways during the winter months, it doesn't work too well on the grass. I couldn't resist, GW

07-02-2012, 05:26 PM	#15
Ross/Kzoo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Richland Mi. Posts: 1,172	Re: NOT "A" old houses. If it's in a plat you can find out when the plat was recorded. If it's in a city or metropolitan area they used to have map records at the fire station or city with pertinent information to the fire dept. such as 1 1/2 story, woodframed, brick veneer etc.

07-02-2012, 08:41 PM	#16
2manycars Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Eastern CT Posts: 2,732	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Sounds like your house was built around 1900, plus or minus 20 years. Balloon framing went out around 1930 in most places, as it is unsafe in a fire without firestops. I love the color of that pickup!!

07-03-2012, 06:06 AM	#17
supergnat Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Palmyra, NJ Posts: 475	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Mr. Tube, Another way to research your house in NJ is to take the lot and block number to your county property records department and research the title transfer records. Those records are usually pretty complete. The process takes a very long time due to the system used by the county but you may be successful in your search. Supergnat from NJ

08-03-2012, 09:55 AM	#18
MrTube Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: New Jersey Posts: 1,471	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Just wanted to update the thread. I purchases Sanborn Fire Insurance maps for the area which gave me 8 maps from 1892,1897,1902,1909,1914,1924,1941,1961 The house was there in 1892 so I hunted down an 1887 directory for the county which for our town, did NOT have house numbers for the names so I'm out of luck going that route. For what its worth just about every house that is there now, is on the 1892 map. I will continue to try and hunt down this information.

08-03-2012, 11:10 AM	#19
29ModelA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Owosso, MI Posts: 673	Re: NOT "A" old houses. I was going to say that the construction looked even older than what was used in my home. I had books in the walls dated 1908. __________________ 1929 Model A Barn find. California car, just a few more parts to find. Interior, steering box (rebuild), and I am sure much more!

08-03-2012, 01:57 PM	#20
mass A man Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Danvers, Ma. Posts: 712	Re: NOT "A" old houses. Almost identical to my house's construction, which was built in 1879 but many pieces were taken from a tear-down somewhere, near here I imagine, that date as far back to Pre-Revolution times. The Rebecca Nurse Homestead (1678) is near my house, she was hanged for being one of Satan's disciples on July 19, 1692. Her house was built with the lumber from a tear down from 1630.