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Old 03-15-2019, 09:06 AM   #1
bfdinardo
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Default 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Reviving an old thread regarding flex plates! I've removed the old thick heavy rivet flex plate per some of the recommendations here in favor of the new stamped one shown in the picture below. Can anyone offer some advice on which way it should be installed? I'm not sure on 4 things.

1. which direction the plate should face either relative to the engine (first or second picture?)
2. what the 3 spacers are for and how many to use? (are they to compensate for length of the 6 bolts to the crank?)
3. original plate was held on to the ring gear fly wheel by the 6 bolts and rivet wings (3 on each side 180 deg from each other) but this one looks like 4 bolts at 90 degrees from each other. so i should use the center holes from the original wings location at 3 oclock and 9 oclock and then use the existing nuts for 12 and 6 oclocks on the ring gear fly wheel? (3rd picture)
4. Are the 2 smaller bolts at 12 and 6 oclock on the fly wheel slightly closer to the center the drain bolts for the torque converter?


Thank you so much in advance for your help!
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File Type: jpg flex plate_2.jpg (29.7 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg flywheel_1.jpg (56.4 KB, 55 views)
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:10 PM   #2
KULTULZ
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Post Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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Originally Posted by bfdinardo View Post

1956 F/L 292 F/M

Reviving an old thread regarding flex plates! I've removed the old thick heavy rivet flex plate per some of the recommendations here in favor of the new stamped one shown in the picture below. Can anyone offer some advice on which way it should be installed?

I'm not sure on 4 things.

1. which direction the plate should face either relative to the engine (first or second picture?)

2. what the 3 spacers are for and how many to use? (are they to compensate for length of the 6 bolts to the crank?)

3. original plate was held on to the ring gear fly wheel by the 6 bolts and rivet wings (3 on each side 180 deg from each other) but this one looks like 4 bolts at 90 degrees from each other. so i should use the center holes from the original wings location at 3 oclock and 9 oclock and then use the existing nuts for 12 and 6 oclocks on the ring gear fly wheel? (3rd picture)

4. Are the 2 smaller bolts at 12 and 6 oclock on the fly wheel slightly closer to the center the drain bolts for the torque converter?

Thank you so much in advance for your help!
The new plate you have is a 1957/ upgrade for the older plates.

See the photo below for plate facing orientation.

As for the reinforcing plates, there are three used. I believe there is one before the plate and two after, but don't quote me on this (you really need the FORD FM SHOP MANUAL for exact assy details). There were three on the old plate weren't there? Do you remember how all came apart?.

Once you put the plate against the convertor cover, it should become obvious how it all goes together.

The large holes are for the convertor drain(s) of course.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:59 PM   #3
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

There were not any spacer rings when I took mine apart. To disassemble and pull the motor, I took the 6 bolts that attached the flex plate rivet wings to the ring gear fly wheel and thus the old flex plate stayed bolted to the crank.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:57 PM   #4
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

the rings are there because the replacement plate is thinner.the rings of course are on the transmission side.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:03 PM   #5
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Post Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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Originally Posted by bfdinardo View Post

There were not any spacer rings when I took mine apart. To disassemble and pull the motor, I took the 6 bolts that attached the flex plate rivet wings to the ring gear fly wheel and thus the old flex plate stayed bolted to the crank.
... hmmpf ...

Those rings are reinforcing plates for the flex-plate. They strengthen the attaching plate mounting surface to the crank flange and absorb the torque to the plate from the crank flange. Without them, the flex-plate may fatigue and stress crack.

The PN is B9AZ 6A366-A and your application requires 3 in number.

The replacement plate (B7A 6375-A) came with the reinforcing plates incl.

See photo below-
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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If you were to use the '57 and later flexplate with an old air-cooled fordomatic converter, I highly recommend getting the entire assembly balanced, since the more modern flexplate is foreign to the air-cooled converter. Also I would consider adding more shim rings between the back of crankshaft flange and the flexplate which will help to push the converter back closer to it's original position with respect to the transmission front pump. But not too many, because it will push the dogs of the converter hub into the back of the pump and grind the dogs to death. I would say not more than 3/16" shim thickness altogether more that what you originally had.
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Old 03-16-2019, 11:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

As far as the locations of the shim rings (or spacer rings), consider this: the flywheel bolts that attach the converter housing must be far enough out from the back of the engine block such that the nuts will not hit the cast iron flanges in the back of the engine block when the converter is turning. Adding spacer shims between the back of the crankshaft flange and flexplate will push the location of the nuts further away from the back of the engine block.
There should be at least one shim ring between the flexplate and flywheel to help stiffen the flexplate, but if you put too many shims there, it will push the flywheel away from the flexplate enough that it leaves a space between them making it impossible to tighten the flexplate to flywheel bolts. I would go for the thickest shim ring I could find (for use with the '57 and later flexplate) to use between the flexplate and flywheel that would still allow tightening of the flexplate to flywheel bolts AND that would have no interference between the flexplate to crankshaft bolts hitting the front face of the flywheel.
Using the old style flexplate with the riveted dogs would really require no shim rings between the flexplate and flywheel for stiffening since the middle part of the flexplate is about 1/4 inch thick. The newer '57 and later one-piece stamped flexplates are a light gage metal that need more stiffening at the center.
The normal torque used for tightening any flexplate to the crankshaft flange will gouge the face of the flexplate, so the factory used a spacer ring there to prevent that. It's better to damage a shim ring than to tear up a good flexplate.
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Old 03-17-2019, 11:11 AM   #8
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Post Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Again, those are reinforcing plates. They were used with the original flex-plate install and used with the SERVICE REPLACEMENT flex-plate install he is showing (same PN and number of reinforcing plates).

I doubt if anything needs to be re-balanced as FORD would have the same balance between the early and late or most likely would have not superseded the original part with the later design.

Proper attaching cap screw length and grade must also be verified.

How they are placed will affect ring gear - starter drive engagement position as well as convertor to front pump engagement clearance.

The FORDOMATIC SHOP MANUAL is a must here if there were no plates on disassembly.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:17 AM   #9
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

All,
great feedback! So I finally got a few minutes with a pair of calipers. To best match the thickness of the original plate which will ensure the 6 bolts to crank shaft don't stick out too far and to best match the original flange location to bolt the flex circuit to flywheel/ring gear, 1 of the spacers will go between the crank and flex plate and the other 2 spacers will go between the flex plate and flywheel/ring gear. thanks for the direction.
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Old 03-27-2019, 10:25 AM   #10
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Thumbs up Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdinardo View Post

1 of the spacers will go between the crank and flex plate and the other 2 spacers will go between the flex plate and flywheel/ring gear. thanks for the direction.
THANK YOU for getting back and letting the board know.
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:42 PM   #11
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

I’m going through this same task. I bought my new style stamped flexplate from Mac’s and it included the three rings. The six holes around the center do not match up with the holes on the crankshaft. I checked another source that also sold the new flexplate and their picture looked identical to the one from Mac’s. The one difference was they included a note in the description that you only use four of the holes, not all six. I was able to attach the new flexplate with the three support rings using just four bolts. We’re you able to use all six bolts? Would just using four bolts be safe?
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Old 10-20-2020, 07:47 PM   #12
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Thought Zi should include a photo of the four bolt installation .
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:04 PM   #13
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

you need all 6.i would think the 4 bolts their talking about are for attaching the flex plate to the torque converter.the early one used 6.
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:41 PM   #14
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdinardo View Post
All,
great feedback! So I finally got a few minutes with a pair of calipers. To best match the thickness of the original plate which will ensure the 6 bolts to crank shaft don't stick out too far and to best match the original flange location to bolt the flex circuit to flywheel/ring gear, 1 of the spacers will go between the crank and flex plate and the other 2 spacers will go between the flex plate and flywheel/ring gear. thanks for the direction.
No spacers between crank and flexplate.
Bill
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Old 10-20-2020, 11:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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. . . The six holes around the center do not match up with the holes on the crankshaft. I checked another source that also sold the new flexplate and their picture looked identical to the one from Mac’s. The one difference was they included a note in the description that you only use four of the holes, not all six. I was able to attach the new flexplate with the three support rings using just four bolts. We’re you able to use all six bolts? Would just using four bolts be safe?
Quote:
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you need all 6.i would think the 4 bolts their talking about are for attaching the flex plate to the torque converter.the early one used 6.
Using 4 bolts at the crankshaft flange is not safe and will result in extremely serious damage when they fail.

All 6 bolts will line up when the flexplate is in the correct position.
One of the holes is offset on purpose, so the flexplate (or flywheel) only fits one way.
Diagrams at this link... http://www.ford-y-block.com/crankshaftid.htm

If all three rings are needed for the ends of the bolts to just clear the back of the block, all 3 of them go between the bolt heads and flexplate, none between the flexplate and crankshaft flange. I can double check this with my old-school machine shop tomorrow.
< edit >
I double checked the placement of the 3 reinforcing ring spacers with three different shops and they all said the correct placement is between the bolt heads and flexplate. Two of the three shops I called specialize in restoring '55/'57 Thunderbirds.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 10-22-2020 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 10-21-2020, 07:13 AM   #16
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Question Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuburg View Post

I’m going through this same task. I bought my new style stamped flexplate from Mac’s and it included the three rings. The six holes around the center do not match up with the holes on the crankshaft. I checked another source that also sold the new flexplate and their picture looked identical to the one from Mac’s. The one difference was they included a note in the description that you only use four of the holes, not all six. I was able to attach the new flexplate with the three support rings using just four bolts. We’re you able to use all six bolts? Would just using four bolts be safe?
Is there any chance of you scanning and posting a copy of the INSTRUCTION SHEET? The mounting bolt holes did not all align if the plate was rotated against the crank flange? It did not give a specific position(s) of the reinf plates?

Vendor Name - Country of Origin?
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Old 10-22-2020, 06:30 AM   #17
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Post Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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Originally Posted by zuburg View Post

I checked another source that also sold the new flex plate and their picture looked identical to the one from Macís. The one difference was they included a note in the description that you only use four of the holes, not all six.
Obviously, this is not a quality replacement part, but something melted down from SHERMAN tanks disabled in Korea.

The most important detail will be correct convertor/front pump clearance after final assembly.

Detail has to be covered in a period TSB which I was never able to find.
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:09 AM   #18
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

On a related note, is it safe to weld a tiny crack on a flexplate?
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:17 AM   #19
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

I finally got the flex plate and rings installed using all 6 bolts. You can rotate the flexplate until all 6 holes line up. The rings were more difficult to line up. You can rotate them to all 6 positions and they won’t line up. If that happens, flip them over and rotate again and one if the positions will line up.
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Old 10-23-2020, 11:36 AM   #20
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Default Re: 1956 Fairlane Victoria flex plate 292 fordomatic question

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On a related note, is it safe to weld a tiny crack on a flexplate?
I'm not a welder and don't have a clue. But ask a good automotive machine shop. At the least the welding would have to be of excellent quality, smoothed and the flex plate re-balanced.
Heat from the welding process could easily warp the plate or make the metal weaker or more brittle, depending on its composition.
IMHO, a new or undamaged used one would be a better choice.
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