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Old 03-19-2017, 11:42 PM   #1
GB SISSON
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Default Are these rotators?

Been working on that blue 59ab I brought home two weeks ago. Got good spark now and went through the carb after that. New head gaskets came in on Friday so this afternoon I pulled the intake and found some good news. Remarkably clean in the valve chamber and it has adjustable lifters and drilled lifter bosses. The ford rebuild tag shows bore at .0825 and .010/.010. Pistons are stamped accordingly. Sadly the stroke is 3 3/4" but this was a pig in a poke situation at best. The valve clearances are quite big. I usually set them up in the middle of the range numbers in my orange ford overhaul book. I notice that the last variants of the V8 show .018 for exhaust valves. Is this because they used valve rotators? Does my engine appear to have rotators, and if so, do I need the big ,018 clearance on the exhaust valves? On a side note, you can see that on #4 the builder missed the groove in the valve guide with his horseshoe clip and set it between the spring and the guide. Maybe a good 1/8" added to the lash. Maybe this is why this otherwise good looking engine was pulled? There is plenty of cross hatch showing in the bores and cranking on 12 volts with no heads it shows 60 lb oil pressure on a mechanical gauge. I remain quite optomistic but want to set the valves tomorrow before I fire it up on the stand. I know nothing about the cam but expect stock. The adjuster bolts seem pretty deep in the bores though. Valve lash settings???? Thanks in advance GB
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File Type: jpg V8 stash unloaded 025.jpg (61.0 KB, 464 views)
File Type: jpg blue engine 010.jpg (52.4 KB, 594 views)
File Type: jpg blue engine 029.jpg (64.4 KB, 479 views)
File Type: jpg blue engine 038.jpg (81.9 KB, 521 views)
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:09 AM   #2
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

Nice, clean, tidy, organised shed. Yes, they're rotators.
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Old 03-20-2017, 04:38 AM   #3
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

In your picture of the five valve assemblies, one does not have the rotator cone. So he either mixed up some parts there or used the regular non-rotator type valve in that location. You'll want to verify that each part in that particular assy is the correct one.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:41 AM   #4
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

are the valve springs different for intake and exhaust? Looks a little like Isky springs on the exhaust with the rotators. I believe they are shorter and would work with the rotators.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

All of the above--plus, some of the springs are upside down.
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Old 03-20-2017, 06:57 AM   #6
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The person that installed the valve train, had no idea what he was doing, and why. I did things like that when I was learning. I'm still learning.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:39 AM   #7
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

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The person that installed the valve train, had no idea what he was doing, and why. I did things like that when I was learning. I'm still learning.
Agreed! It must have been the new guy in the shop doing this. Likely not his fault, but rather a lack of training. He was left to just muddle through.
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:14 AM   #8
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

With all of this what are the odds that the seat pressures are correct or consistent?
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Old 03-20-2017, 08:50 AM   #9
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

A little hard to tell but it appears some springs are upside down.

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Old 03-20-2017, 09:28 AM   #10
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

So it looks like I have a bit of a project ahead of me. I have 'overhauled' about ten of these V8s in the past 25 years. Most of what I know about setting them up I learned from all the books available in the '90s. I have read them all so many times they are falling apart. Living on this island I have never had any association with other flathead V8 folks until I discovered the internet, and I really appreciate all the help I get here. I have a couple of coffee cans of valve parts and know there are rotators and associated parts in there. I will fix/replace the screwed up parts and get it all dialed in. Once this is completed should I adjust the valves as though this was a 1953 engine .018 exhaust and what on the intake? After I re-work the valve train I will install the heads. They were on with 8ba head bolts and I plan to re-use them and I must have a hundred here to choose from. I have aviation permatex for the threads, blue felpro gaskets and I'm planning to use grease on them. I don't have enough good studs, but thought about using two studs on each head just to make for easy assembly. Is it a good idea to use head bolts?
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Old 03-20-2017, 12:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

These are the specs for 8BA's of different flavors (non-rotators and rotators)
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:12 PM   #12
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

OK, thanks Ross. That was not too bad changing things around. The valves with no rotators were at least correct as far as correct spring length for what they were, but now they all have rotators and the horseshoes in the right place and all have the short springs correctly oriented. Looks to me as though someone 'freshened up' a ford remanufactured engine. There is evidence of lubriplate on the lifters still. I think the .0825 means this engine is bored to 3 5/16?. It will most likely go into my somewhat ragged '47 jailbar 1/2 ton, or depending on how it checks out, maybe my even more ragged '47 tonner pickup that is destined to become my 'junkyard dog' around the place. Looks like it could be real nice though. Off to adjust those valves now.
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Old 03-20-2017, 01:13 PM   #13
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

Jumping Jehosafat! Check out those crankshafts way up on that shelf. Clearly does not live in southern california as they would be hard to catch during the frequent shaker.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

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Jumping Jehosafat! Check out those crankshafts way up on that shelf. Clearly does not live in southern california as they would be hard to catch during the frequent shaker.

There is a piece of 1/2" steel rod drilled through the 3/4" plywood shelf support that runs across the cranks about 1/3 way from the top. The other end of the rod has a piece of steel lag bolted to the studs. I call that deep storage because there's 4 more in wood cradles on the left and my new merc crank just kinda laying there with the masking tape on the journals. Those are the best five....They DO talk a lot about a possible 9.0 here in the Puget Sound Region.
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:44 PM   #15
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

The .0825 over bore is not 3-5/16, it,s .0825, 3-5/16 is .125 over. Walt
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Old 03-20-2017, 02:50 PM   #16
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

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OK, thanks Ross. That was not too bad changing things around. The valves with no rotators were at least correct as far as correct spring length for what they were, but now they all have rotators and the horseshoes in the right place and all have the short springs correctly oriented. Looks to me as though someone 'freshened up' a ford remanufactured engine. There is evidence of lubriplate on the lifters still. I think the .0825 means this engine is bored to 3 5/16?. It will most likely go into my somewhat ragged '47 jailbar 1/2 ton, or depending on how it checks out, maybe my even more ragged '47 tonner pickup that is destined to become my 'junkyard dog' around the place. Looks like it could be real nice though. Off to adjust those valves now.
3 & 5/16" equals .125 over standard .0825 was a oversize piston designed to use when the tin sleeves were removed on the earlier engines.
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Old 03-20-2017, 03:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

GB SISSON, we're almost neighbors, nice hoard you got there! I'm new to V8's but have Model A stuff stuck everywhere in my regular old 2-car garage. Looks like someones lack of knowledge might have helped you score a nice engine with just a little bit of sweat-equity. My 49 pickup really needs a carb, the one on it is so worn I don't think a rebuild kit will get me very far. Did the fellow you were buying you goodies from have a carb stash?
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Old 03-20-2017, 05:53 PM   #18
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GB SISSON, we're almost neighbors, nice hoard you got there! I'm new to V8's but have Model A stuff stuck everywhere in my regular old 2-car garage. Looks like someones lack of knowledge might have helped you score a nice engine with just a little bit of sweat-equity. My 49 pickup really needs a carb, the one on it is so worn I don't think a rebuild kit will get me very far. Did the fellow you were buying you goodies from have a carb stash?
He said there is more flathead stuff in an old airstream trailer. With all those blocks you would think there would be a lot of carbs, distributers, exhaust manifolds, camshafts and on and on. One thing though is the chevy guy I got all that stuff from said he had taken a bunch of small stuff to the swap meet.

And yes 3 5/16 bore is 1/8" more than 3 3/16, and .125 is 1/8" . 35 years a cabinetmaker, I should know my fractions. I stand corrected.

Still no comments on head bolts for a 59ab block? I'm all ears.
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Old 03-20-2017, 07:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Are these rotators?

Bolts are Ol Ron's (along with many others) favorite. I prefer studs
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Old 03-20-2017, 09:38 PM   #20
GB SISSON
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Oh great a civil war.... Let's just say there is a thread or two that isn't exactly perfect in this block. Seems a stud cranked all the way down is less apt to fail in the final torque down procedure than a bolt. Just a gut feeling on my part. In the end, engines built by J Seery and Ol Ron are both great runners, so if I use common sense I should be ok....... On another note this engine must have the good hollow johnson lifters in it. I had to do a LOT of wrenching on them and the tension on the bolts was very consistent and very snug. They gave me a lot of confidence that my settings were going to last. No loose ones in the batch.
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