The Ford Barn

Skibb · 06-06-2013, 10:33 PM

Took this off my restoration car yesterday and wonder if it is indeed a HC Head ? Please excuse my lack of knowledge, had to ask.

H. L. Chauvin · 06-06-2013, 10:35 PM

Yes.

Skibb · 06-06-2013, 10:51 PM

Thanks H.L.

Mike V. Florida · 06-06-2013, 10:51 PM

Notice the heart shaped chambers in yours.

Notice the difference from the stock head;

Skibb · 06-07-2013, 07:44 AM

Thanks Mike...........

jkeesey · 06-07-2013, 08:14 AM

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Did it have markings on the topside?

Skibb · 06-07-2013, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkeesey

Did it have markings on the topside?

No markings on topside, but a small metal washer like thing on the side facing the firewall. I'll post that photo. No close ups of silver colored round tag attached to rear of head.

Tom Wesenberg · 06-07-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skibb

No markings on topside, but a small metal washer like thing on the side facing the firewall. I'll post that photo. No close ups of silver colored round tag attached to rear of head.

That might be an overheat indicator, as used by some rebuilders. It lets the rebuilder know if the owner overheated the engine, thus voiding the warranty.

Skibb · 06-08-2013, 10:38 AM

Thanks Tom.

Banky · 06-08-2013, 10:57 AM

Lookin to sell it by any chance? I'm looking for one.

Skibb · 06-08-2013, 01:39 PM

Banky, don't know yet. This engine was rebuilt as a touring engine in April 2012 by a restorer in Maysville, GA. We pulled the car after fifteen months because of little progress and heavy bills. Turns out the engine rebuild was a fraud. It failed after 30 seconds last Wednesday when it seized. We are tearing the engine apart to find out why. The fact that the restorer chose a block with a crack in it didn't cause it to seize up. But now because of the crack, it's a four thousand dollar paperweight.

5window · 06-08-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skibb

Banky, don't know yet. This engine was rebuilt as a touring engine in April 2012 by a restorer in Maysville, GA. We pulled the car after fifteen months because of little progress and heavy bills. Turns out the engine rebuild was a fraud. It failed after 30 seconds last Wednesday when it seized. We are tearing the engine apart to find out why. The fact that the restorer chose a block with a crack in it didn't cause it to seize up. But now because of the crack, it's a four thousand dollar paperweight.

Maybe you'd like to post the info on your "restorer" so others aren't burned as well?

Skibb · 06-08-2013, 07:17 PM

5 Window...

We took the engine apart this weekend. Our car was in restoration at Bentley's, Maysville, Ga.

We paid four grand cash for his rebuild of our engine. He didn't use our original block.

The engine's first run on the chassis this past Wednesday lasted thirty seconds then the engine seized solid.

We have Babbitted Connecting Rod Bearings but paid for Inserts.

The connecting rods look to be older than I and look as bad as I.

The Flywheel Housing has been welded to repair cracks.

The Rear Main Bearing was not set properly so as to push to one side. The engine seized after thirty seconds Wendesday because the Rear Main jammed.

The Block is cracked at both no. 2 exhaust valve AND on the outside left water jacket of the Block. The Block wasn't magna fluxed or boiled as his "contract" says.

The carb leaked like an open spigot and had 1/4 inch of junk in the bowl.

The Emergency Brake Cross Shaft was stuck solid.

The cylinders were "dingleberried" not bored out. The pistons were standard size inside of sleeves put in long ago.

Peening repair to no. 2 Exhaust Valve Seat see photo on profile.

Monday, we'll take the crank shaft to Lake Park Machine for inspection.

5window · 06-08-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skibb

5 Window...

I will when we get the whole butcher's bill. So far this is what we learned in the last week. We pulled apart the engine this weekend. Car was in restoration at Bentley's, Maysville, Ga for fifteen months of high bills and slow work and the following which we didn't know about. We paid four grand cash for this part of the "restoration" work.

We have Babbitted Connecting Rod Bearings but paid for inserts.

The connecting rods look to be older than I.

We have a welded repairs to the flywheel housing.

The Rear Main Bearing was not set properly so as to push it all to one side. The engine seized after thirty seconds Wendesday because the Rear Main jammed.

The Block is cracked at both no. 2 exhaust valve AND on the outside left water jacket of the Block. The Block wasn't magna fluxed or boiled as his "contract" says.

The carb leaked like an open spigot and had 1/4 inch of junk in the bowl.

The Emergency Brake Cross Shaft was stuck solid with painted.

The cylinders were "dingle berried" not bored out. The pistons were standard size inside of sleeves.

Peening repair to no. 2 Exhaust Valve Seat.

Monday, we'll take the crank and a backup crank to have it checked out by Lake Park Machine shop.

Oh! It seems like they set out to see how many different things they intentionally could screw up. Sorry.

Skibb · 06-08-2013, 08:00 PM

Yes, it appears that way.

Banky · 06-09-2013, 07:12 AM

Unreal. Would make me sick, seeing how money is thin and I have to watch every penny.

James Rogers · 06-09-2013, 07:45 AM

Skibb, sorry to hear of engine rebuilds like this, it gives reputable builders and restorers a bad name. I heard of Bentley and spoke to him a couple of years ago when he called me wanting to buy some of my equipment. It didn't take me long to figure out, he didn't know what he was doing and Mike Butcher of Mike's Afordable should have better sense than to use him for rebuilds, he went from the frying pan to the fire. I also hear Bentley is in trouble with his business and personal life, just heresay though. I looked at the picture of the valve on your profile. Are the valves original mushroom tip or modern? I would have replaced the seat and pinned the crack and it would have been fixed. On second thought, I would have never used this block unless it was upon agreement with the customer. There are better blocks out there still and nobody needs to be scammed like this. I may be wrong but I believe he does his own engine work in house. I also wonder what the purpose of the peening was? It is fairly obvious there is no replacement seat in the block. I also notice the valve seat next to that one has a bad spot in it. Like it was not ground properly.

Again, so sorry.

Skibb · 06-09-2013, 09:29 AM

James, we'll get a better look at that valve tomorrow.

We're taking the crankshaft plus an extra one that my friend has to Lake Park Auto Machine to get it checked out. Nothing seems right with this engine.

This post can't be personal, it's business. This is what happened to my wife and I in an effort to restore a Model A named Duke. Together we spent thirty six grand on this restoration with a business that we thought was acting in good faith. Lessons learned in life the hard way are often the best ones. Good things have followed: Our Model A recovery is being mentored by a fellow club member, who's as we'd say in the Navy, an Ace. He's a superb teacher. And, I've always wanted to know a Model A from the inside out like being able to field strip a piece (rifle) blindfolded. So this accomplishes inside out - big time.

Vic in E-TN · 06-09-2013, 09:38 AM

We attended the Grandfathers Day at Mike's Affordable last Saturday. Bentley developed MS (I recall) about 6 months ago and he is now almost completely incapacitated and in a wheelchair. This does not absolve him of bad work. If the engine was purchased through Mike's, you should take this up with Mike.
Vic

Skibb · 06-09-2013, 10:21 AM

Vic, it's very important to say here that this engine is NOT from Mike's nor in anyway connected to them.

We were invoiced and paid for this engine in April 2012 by Bentley's. We just discovered last Wednesday that the engine is a very expensive nightmare.

Next step is to build our own and do it right.

06-06-2013, 10:35 PM	#2
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Is this a HC Head Yes.

06-06-2013, 10:51 PM	#3
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Thanks H.L.

06-06-2013, 10:51 PM	#4
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Is this a HC Head Notice the heart shaped chambers in yours. Notice the difference from the stock head; __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II Last edited by Mike V. Florida; 06-06-2013 at 11:09 PM.

06-07-2013, 07:44 AM	#5
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Thanks Mike...........

06-07-2013, 08:14 AM	#6
jkeesey Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Glenmoore Pa Posts: 1,644	Re: Is this a HC Head Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Did it have markings on the topside?

06-08-2013, 10:38 AM	#9
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Thanks Tom.

06-08-2013, 10:57 AM	#10
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Re: Is this a HC Head Lookin to sell it by any chance? I'm looking for one.

06-08-2013, 01:39 PM	#11
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Banky, don't know yet. This engine was rebuilt as a touring engine in April 2012 by a restorer in Maysville, GA. We pulled the car after fifteen months because of little progress and heavy bills. Turns out the engine rebuild was a fraud. It failed after 30 seconds last Wednesday when it seized. We are tearing the engine apart to find out why. The fact that the restorer chose a block with a crack in it didn't cause it to seize up. But now because of the crack, it's a four thousand dollar paperweight.

06-08-2013, 07:17 PM	#13
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head 5 Window... We took the engine apart this weekend. Our car was in restoration at Bentley's, Maysville, Ga. We paid four grand cash for his rebuild of our engine. He didn't use our original block. The engine's first run on the chassis this past Wednesday lasted thirty seconds then the engine seized solid. We have Babbitted Connecting Rod Bearings but paid for Inserts. The connecting rods look to be older than I and look as bad as I. The Flywheel Housing has been welded to repair cracks. The Rear Main Bearing was not set properly so as to push to one side. The engine seized after thirty seconds Wendesday because the Rear Main jammed. The Block is cracked at both no. 2 exhaust valve AND on the outside left water jacket of the Block. The Block wasn't magna fluxed or boiled as his "contract" says. The carb leaked like an open spigot and had 1/4 inch of junk in the bowl. The Emergency Brake Cross Shaft was stuck solid. The cylinders were "dingleberried" not bored out. The pistons were standard size inside of sleeves put in long ago. Peening repair to no. 2 Exhaust Valve Seat see photo on profile. Monday, we'll take the crank shaft to Lake Park Machine for inspection. Last edited by Skibb; 06-08-2013 at 07:59 PM.

06-08-2013, 08:00 PM	#15
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Yes, it appears that way.

06-09-2013, 07:12 AM	#16
Banky Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 201	Re: Is this a HC Head Unreal. Would make me sick, seeing how money is thin and I have to watch every penny.

06-09-2013, 07:45 AM	#17
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Is this a HC Head Skibb, sorry to hear of engine rebuilds like this, it gives reputable builders and restorers a bad name. I heard of Bentley and spoke to him a couple of years ago when he called me wanting to buy some of my equipment. It didn't take me long to figure out, he didn't know what he was doing and Mike Butcher of Mike's Afordable should have better sense than to use him for rebuilds, he went from the frying pan to the fire. I also hear Bentley is in trouble with his business and personal life, just heresay though. I looked at the picture of the valve on your profile. Are the valves original mushroom tip or modern? I would have replaced the seat and pinned the crack and it would have been fixed. On second thought, I would have never used this block unless it was upon agreement with the customer. There are better blocks out there still and nobody needs to be scammed like this. I may be wrong but I believe he does his own engine work in house. I also wonder what the purpose of the peening was? It is fairly obvious there is no replacement seat in the block. I also notice the valve seat next to that one has a bad spot in it. Like it was not ground properly. Again, so sorry. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/ Last edited by James Rogers; 06-09-2013 at 07:59 AM.

06-09-2013, 09:29 AM	#18
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head James, we'll get a better look at that valve tomorrow. We're taking the crankshaft plus an extra one that my friend has to Lake Park Auto Machine to get it checked out. Nothing seems right with this engine. This post can't be personal, it's business. This is what happened to my wife and I in an effort to restore a Model A named Duke. Together we spent thirty six grand on this restoration with a business that we thought was acting in good faith. Lessons learned in life the hard way are often the best ones. Good things have followed: Our Model A recovery is being mentored by a fellow club member, who's as we'd say in the Navy, an Ace. He's a superb teacher. And, I've always wanted to know a Model A from the inside out like being able to field strip a piece (rifle) blindfolded. So this accomplishes inside out - big time.

06-09-2013, 09:38 AM	#19
Vic in E-TN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 491	Re: Is this a HC Head We attended the Grandfathers Day at Mike's Affordable last Saturday. Bentley developed MS (I recall) about 6 months ago and he is now almost completely incapacitated and in a wheelchair. This does not absolve him of bad work. If the engine was purchased through Mike's, you should take this up with Mike. Vic

06-09-2013, 10:21 AM	#20
Skibb Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 536	Re: Is this a HC Head Vic, it's very important to say here that this engine is NOT from Mike's nor in anyway connected to them. We were invoiced and paid for this engine in April 2012 by Bentley's. We just discovered last Wednesday that the engine is a very expensive nightmare. Next step is to build our own and do it right.