Australian barners should read this

[Synchro909]

Although this is for Australian barners, I’ll explain a little so it makes some sense to others. As of July 1, the Australian government is clamping down on tax avoidance mostly aimed at multinational companies that move money around the world from one tax haven to another to avoid paying tax on profits made in the country where they were earned. This will have an impact on any purchases made from US vendors. We all know that Amazon US will no longer ship to Australia because they refuse to collect the 10% GST (Goods and Services Tax).
I have just been speaking with the owners of one of the more reputable Model A vendor companies and he said that to continue selling to Australians, he has to register with the Australian Government and do a return and send $ each month. At the moment, he has suspended sales to Oz and is evaluating whether or not it will be worth their while to set things up so he can collect the tax and submit it to the govt. It seems we have been caught up as collateral damage in a bigger battle. I expect the other vendors will be doing the same. Depending on what they each decide, maybe the days of being able to buy parts for our cars out of the US might be over. That would be a disaster for us.
I’m NOT being political here, I’m not asking anybody to take any action, I’m just stating the facts.

[ursus]

How would this impact purchase and shipment from a private seller, e.g., the Fordbarn Swap Meet?

[M2M]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I have just been speaking with the owners of one of the more reputable Model A vendor companies and he said that to continue selling to Australians, he has to register with the Australian Government and do a return and send $ each month. At the moment, he has suspended sales to Oz and is evaluating whether or not it will be worth their while to set things up so he can collect the tax and submit it to the govt. It seems we have been caught up as collateral damage in a bigger battle.

Here's the new law:

Businesses with sales (subject to Australian GST) of AUD 75000 or more to consumers in Australia within a 12 month period, will need to register with the Australian Taxation Office (ATO), collect GST at the point of sale and remit that GST to the ATO.

I wonder if Bert's, Snyder's, Mike's and Bratton's all sell more than AUD 75000 a year to Aussie consumers??? This law may benefit smaller USA vendors that at the moment don't often sell to Aussies.

No need for panic I think even if all the vendors ban Aussies. An Aussie could for example have the vendor ship to me in the USA and I could re-ship the items to Australia. I, and probably others here, would be happy to help out.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by ursus

How would this impact purchase and shipment from a private seller, e.g., the Fordbarn Swap Meet?

No impact on the private seller in the USA. When sending a parcel to Australia you have always needed to declare the value of what you're sending on USPS Customs forms. The Aussie receiving the parcel will now need to pay tax.

[quickchange]

You may need to purchase from New Zealand dealers of which there are 3 , myself being one ,Happy to help our cuzzies if we can , Be home from the MAFCA meet July 5th, Derek Antique Ford Parts , Nelson,NZ

[Synchro909]

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I can see some vendors going along with the new regime and others not. Those who do will reach the threshold, probably easily and although it will be a hassle, it would be worthwhile to them as they would pick up sales from the vendors who don’t register.
I’m in Melbourne and I suspect this will benefit our local supplier who does a good job anyway.
M2M made an offer and I can see another way around this but it involves a little work to set up. An Aussie would need a US address, maybe a freight consolidator for the vendor to send stuff to. If that isn’t enough, maybe we would need a US bank account.
The point is, things are going to be more difficult from here on.

[updraught]

I would wait and see what happens and see how the mess pans out.
So our govt wants retailers from other countries to collect tax for them? Yeah, right.

I got an email from one US mail forwarder, and not the other, to say they will be collecting the tax.
The GST is only supposed to apply to new stuff.

[Gary WA]

Well i'll buy your items,put them on a vehicle. and then sell as used parts.Ship to you as a private seller.!?

[updraught]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

Well i'll buy your items,put them on a vehicle. and then sell as used parts.Ship to you as a private seller.!?

It's only %10. However, having said that, in the past it only applied to things over $1000.

I got caught out once, a few dollars over, by customs. They then applied the %10 to the item and the shipping. The shipping was US$250. So cost me $240 to get it out of customs.

Applying it to shipping here is the killer.

[M2M]

Here's some good info on the situation:

http://theconversation.com/levying-g...involved-98763


This is also interesting:

Consequences for non-compliance

The compliance treatments we use vary according to the type of behaviour you exhibit. We group business behaviours into categories and apply an appropriate approach to each of those categories.
If you choose not to comply with the law, the Commissioner of Taxation can take actions including:

• registering you for GST
• imposing an additional 75% administrative penalty, which then becomes legally payable
• intercepting funds from Australia that are destined for you
• registering the debt in a court in your country
• requesting the taxation authority in your country to recover the debt on our behalf.

Taken from:

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/Inte...rnoncompliance

I wonder if the US govt. and US courts would assist the Oz govt. in forcing US companies to collect Oz tax?

[updraught]

>>I wonder if the US govt. and US courts would assist the Oz govt. in forcing US companies to collect Oz tax?

I wonder how much help will come from the Chinese etc.?

So we are the first cab off the rank.

"Australia is the first jurisdiction to move to adopt a vendor-platform collection model and many jurisdictions are poised to follow suit (the European Union, Switzerland and New Zealand have all announced similar reforms)."

[M2M]

This comes on top of the scam asbestos rules which effectively ban Model As from being imported into Australia. See:

https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2017/0...omment-page-1/

https://www.carsguide.com.au/overste...stos-ban-63989

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-2...esting/9579142

[updraught]

It is not the only thing going on with our customs

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-05-0...ficers/8504944

This is irreplaceable history of our country.

[Tinbasher]

May be worth buying from Canada. There a a few good parts suppliers here. Takes about the same time as getting things from the states. And they have Canadian parts. So a win/win. JP

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Tinbasher

May be worth buying from Canada. There a a few good parts suppliers here. Takes about the same time as getting things from the states. And they have Canadian parts. So a win/win. JP

That would make no difference. The Canadian vendor would have to collect the tax just like any other.

[woofa.express]

Dear oh dear. I'm just about to retire and was looking for a simple life. Always some grotty government department to make waves.

[Lawrie]

Arnold, it,s not working yet,I just got a pile of stuff ,bearings etc from the USA,no drama,straight through..
Lawrie

[Dave Slater]

Laurie, It only applies to orders placed after 1st July 2018. Your order would have been processed prior to 30th June. But yes, there are a couple of suppliers that have ceased shipments to Australia. A frield has spoken to the ATO in Camberra just yesterday and explained the problem to them. According the the person he spoke to they " never expected USA companies to cease shipping to Australia because of the extra paperwork involved and compliance issues". Not to mention the extra costs incurred by the USA company in converting the funds to Australian dollars and remitting same. they simply expected Companies to become Australian Tax Collectors for the ATO. Dave

[updraught]

You may wish to submit an enquiry to So Mo via the Aust govt. web site asking what we are supposed to do when businesses stop sending to Australia.

I just did.

[Jeff/Illinois]

[QUOTE=updraught;1646066]It's only %10. However, having said that, in the past it only applied to things over $1000.

Never take that attitude. Once they open the door and stick their foot in so you can't shut it, they are never going to go away. You will see more and more tax. This is just the start.

[woofa.express]

[QUOTE=Jeff/Illinois;1647031]

Originally Posted by updraught

It's only %10. However, having said that, in the past it only applied to things over $1000.

Never take that attitude. Once they open the door and stick their foot in so you can't shut it, they are never going to go away. You will see more and more tax. This is just the start.

I see Jeff from Illinois knows governments.

[Tinbasher]

Yes, but where use to collecting taxes!!JP

[pooch]

I bought 2 items yesterday off ebay.

The GST was only shown and added AFTER the commit to buy button was clicked.

I have informed ebay that is illegal in Australiai, as all prices must be GST inclusive up front.

I also said, am I going to get a tax invoice with ABN number so I can claim this GST back?

Am waiting a response.

[updraught]

EBay is collecting for the seller. How do you know the seller has sold over $75,000 worth of gear?
With the recent devaluing of our dollar is the seller to use A$ or US$ when setting this limit?

It' quite exciting this isn't it.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by updraught

EBay is collecting for the seller. How do you know the seller has sold over $75,000 worth of gear?
With the recent devaluing of our dollar is the seller to use A$ or US$ when setting this limit?

It' quite exciting this isn't it.

It’s an Australian law so I’d expect that the $75K would be $A and it seems since eBay sells more than $A75K to Australians so they must collect the tax. Also seems eBay need to learn that the price quoted MUST include tax. I think they would have to set up their auction system so that if a bid is made by an Australian bidder, the bid is shown with tax. That would leave other bidders thinking that the bid is higher than it really is unless only Australian bidders see the full price. Certainly a challenge for eBay!
For non Australian readers, it is considered dishonest here to give a price, then expect the buyer to have to pay a higher amount, even if the difference is a tax. I’ve just been in the US and found their system of adding a mystery amount of tax to the price at the register quite confronting and dishonest. The tax seems to change from state to state, city to city and the direction of the wind. Here, it is uniform throughout the entire country.

[M2M]

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So who are the suppliers that have stopped selling to Australia? And, do they allow an Australian buyer using an Australian credit card to buy items and have them send to an US address? Or they do not accept a card with a billing address that's in Australia regardless of where the items are sent to?

[Karl]

Seems a bit of an odd way to do it . In New Zealand we pay GST on overseas purchases at 15%. In reality orders under a certain value just go through as the effort to collect the GST costs more than the GST received. However if you are above the threshold then customs send you a notification when your goods have arrived and so much GST is payable -When you pay the goods get shipped to you. Simple . Why would an overseas seller collect tax for a foreign government ? Karl

[updraught]

Karl, that is the way we did it in the past. Old school stuff now.



We have moved on the the digital future.

[pooch]

It is still illegal for even ebay to collect GST on behalf of every seller overseas if that seller is not registered with the ATO for GST.

Ask them ebay arseholes for your GST input credit tax invoice to claim , haha FAT CHANCE.

I already have asked and EBAY said ask the seller for a tax invoice.

[pooch]

If this has been going since july 1, that is millions of dolars that Australians have paid in GST to Ebay,

There will be a huge kerfuffle here very shortly.

I have already contacted the ACCC.

[dave in australia]

Originally Posted by M2M

So who are the suppliers that have stopped selling to Australia? And, do they allow an Australian buyer using an Australian credit card to buy items and have them send to an US address? Or they do not accept a card with a billing address that's in Australia regardless of where the items are sent to?

Alas, it was Bratton's, who announced via their facebook page to those of us who follow the said page.

[updraught]

A quick look at the ATO website:

"will not need to charge GST on a sale of low value imported goods to Australian GST-registered business if they provide their Australian business number (ABN) and confirmation that they are GST-registered."
https://www.ato.gov.au/business/inte...mported-goods/

"As soon are you are aware Australian GST is likely to apply to the sale of goods, Australian consumer law requires that you display a GST-inclusive price."

"GST does not apply to sales of low value imported goods made to Australian GST-registered businesses who are making the purchase for business use."

"When you charge GST on a sale of low value imported goods you must issue a receipt to the customer."

"However, you should not charge GST or issue a tax invoice with an amount of GST payable if the sale is made to a customer who is not a consumer. This is because you have obtained their ABN and information or a statement that they are registered for GST)."
https://www.ato.gov.au/business/inte...re-registered/

"When you make a taxable sale of more than $82.50 (including GST), your GST-registered customers need a tax invoice from you to be able to claim a credit for the GST in the purchase price.
If a customer asks you for a tax invoice, you must provide one within 28 days of their request."
https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/GST/...-tax-invoices/

"Special rules for re-deliverers calculating GST
If you are a re-deliverer, the GST you charge will be:

• 10% of the amount paid by the customer for the goods, plus
• 1/11th of the amount the customer pays for your services to get the goods to Australia. As a re-deliverer, GST applies to all of your services, including international the transport services and insurance for the transport of the goods."

https://www.ato.gov.au/Business/International-tax-for-business/GST-on-low-value-imported-goods/Who-chargesGST/?anchor=SpecialrulesforredelivererscalculatingGS#S pecialrulesforredelivererscalculatingGS

So ebay don't need to tax on shipping it seems.

[cpf240]

eBay doesn't sell anything. It is just a platform to bring buyers and sellers together. If you go to a flea market, does the venue supply the receipt? I don't think so.

[Synchro909]

Many good points have been made here but it seems to me the most obvious thing is how poorly thought through by the Government this is. Who would ever have thought Government beaurocrats could stuff something up.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by cpf240

eBay doesn't sell anything. It is just a platform to bring buyers and sellers together. If you go to a flea market, does the venue supply the receipt? I don't think so.

Clearly, if ebay are charging the tax, they think they have to. They wouldn’t go to the trouble unless their lawyers said they should do it.

[pooch]

Well here is a new one.

Checked my mastercard and each itiem I bought off ebay has a seperate charge for the GST component.

ie, item charge $10.00 then another entry GST charge $1.00

[Karl]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

Many good points have been made here but it seems to me the most obvious thing is how poorly thought through by the Government this is. Who would ever have thought Government beaurocrats could stuff something up.

In New Zealand our GST is a flat 15%. Your GST seems rather complicated with lots of exceptions eg Not on food unless it is processed, Must be an administrative nightmare

[pooch]

Yeh, a would be if he could be prime minister John Hewson long ago could not explain how a birthday cake was GST taxed.

There was the cake, the icing, the cream, the candles etc. all GST different .

It famously killed his PM ambitions in this one debate.

[pooch]

It is good Ebay is keeping the GST separate on the credit card,

It will be much easier for when they have to refund it all after this scam will be declared illegal.

I repeat, no one can add and take GST on a sale if they are not registered with the ATO and supply a tax invoice with an ABN number.

It is also illegal to not have the upfront price GST inclusive in an ad.,

Take an auction, your bid is the highest, then you go to pay, GST is added.

If this is not explained on the front page of the auction, it is illegal to add it after. .

There is going to be a big shit hit the fan here shortly.

[updraught]

I just bought some software and at the end a list of countries came up. Australia was %10 and the US %0 etc. Take your pick how much tax to pay. Of course I picked Australia to pay my %10 enthusiastically.

I used Paypal and it didn't give me the option to use the credit card for currency conversion. Paypal did the currency conversion.

This is not legal under the Paypal terms and conditions. So I've been overcharged.

This was an issue about a year ago and I managed to get a refund from Paypal. At the time they said it was a known issue (like I should know!, and they didn't know when it would be fixed) It eventually was.

This new, but ongoing, try it on Paypal issue, is the second time this has happened in the last few weeks.

[updraught]

Originally Posted by updraught

...
I used Paypal and it didn't give me the option to use the credit card for currency conversion. Paypal did the currency conversion.
This is not legal under the Paypal terms and conditions. So I've been overcharged.
...

Finally, got a proper answer out of Paypal. It's a process that's made to get you to give up. I had to edit their steps as they got it wrong.

To NOT have Paypal do a currency conversion do this:

To set up this preference, follow these steps:

1. Log in to your PayPal account.
2. Click the Settings icon next to "Log out".
3. Click the Payments tab.
4. Click "Pre-approved payments" under "Can't find what you're looking for? Try the Pre-approved payments page.Some logos provided by Clearbit"
5. Click Set Available Funding Sources.
6. Conversion options next to the affected card.
7. Select your currency conversion preference and click Submit.

[Lawrie]

Thanks for that.
Lawrie

[Synchro909]

I used Paypal and it didn't give me the option to use the credit card for currency conversion. Paypal did the currency conversion.

This is not legal under the Paypal terms and conditions. So I've been overcharged.

A class action coming??

[updraught]

Are you a lawyer?

This is when PayPal had its sudden "known problem" with credit card conversion and didn't know when they would get around to fixing it.
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2581493
Seemed to get fixed after a few months.

https://www.paypal.com/au/smarthelp/...paypal-faq1830

[M2M]

True that Paypal exchange rates are poor compared to credit card exchange rates BUT remember all credit cards have a 3% fee (often hidden) when used to buy goods/services in a foreign currency. Does Paypal charge a conversion fee on top of the exchange rate?

There are ways for Aussies to effectively avoid paying the GST; I will not go into too many details here but Aussie club members firstly should gather together (to save on shipping by combining orders) and have their USA contact buy the items from a USA supplier then resend the items (stripped of their packaging) to Australia. What happens to the value of say a new Stipe shock when it's removed from it's factory packaging then wrapped in newspaper???

USA suppliers when sending stuff to Australia don't do a huge amount of investigation into what's the cheapest way. The cheapest way varies depending on the weight and dimensions of the package. There are many options to look at such as USPS International flat rate boxes (max. weight 20 pounds).

[Hoogah]

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Originally Posted by M2M

. . .There are ways for Aussies to effectively avoid paying the GST; I will not go into too many details here . . .

M2M, does your stuff come via Arfur Daley’s lockup?

[updraught]

I doubt that Stipe shocks would be sold in quantities of $75,0000.


I assume that suppliers that sell over A$75,000 only have been told to adhere to the rules.

[M2M]

Example: Two Aussie A club members decide they want 4 Stipe shocks each and are smart enough to decide to buy the items together to save on shipping.

8 Stipe shocks = approx. USD 2000 + shipping to Oz

When the package arrives in Australia they'll need to play the equivalent of USD 200+ in AUD to be given the package. No way to avoid this as the seller has declared the sale price on the package (or included the invoice). On top of that, USA suppliers do not often choose cheapest way to send items to Australia plus they do not take care to keep packaging to a minimum so the total weight doesn't exceed thresholds; even one gram over a certain threshold can mean USD 50 or more added to shipping. And remember the 10% GST is also charged on the shipping amount.

I mentioned in post #3 what the alternatives are.

[Synchro909]

The problem with these schemes to avoid the tax is that both the buyer and seller might be charged with avoiding tax, a Federal Offense. That said, buying through a US entity would overcome the refusal by some US companies to ship to Australia. For an Australian to do this himself, he would likely need a US bank account. With the closed US system, opening one isn’t easy and would at least require a trip to the US. That represents more $
I have used a freight consolidator to ship stufff here by surface freight. It takes a few weeks but it isn’t hard to plan that far ahead, besides, the local guy has just about everything available in the US and some that are not.
This could be a bonanza for him.

[deuce5wndw]

My son and I were looking at that last evening after I told him about reading this thread. He had just sold some parts to Australia on eBay and the customer was charged the extra 10 per cent but it was not put into my son's paypal account so we assume eBay is charging and paying it to Australia.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

I'm NOT AUSTRALIAN & I read this, am I in BIG TROUBLE??
Bill Sweatyandnervous

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

I'm NOT AUSTRALIAN & I read this, am I in BIG TROUBLE??
Bill Sweatyandnervous

Yes, probably, because you'll be standing on your head trying to see things from our perspective.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Hoogah

Yes, probably, because you'll be standing on your head trying to see things from our perspective.

Is there an available SHOE, that will fit my Size 7 3/8" HEAD?
Bill Headstrong

[updraught]

shoe on head
Putting a shoe on your head is an Indian tradition.It means you're humble
She's cool , i saw her putting a shoe on head