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Old 10-12-2017, 10:21 PM   #1
bullrunmotor
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Default Model B Motor Oil System Questions

I have B Model Engine in A Model A I recently purchased. My first model A. I purchased a New-Rex ignition advance system at Hershey that I'm installing and have removed the side cover for the installation. My side cover is home made out of a piece of plate aluminum. The oil Tee fitting in bottom of block has one lead going to the oil pressure gauge and the side cover has been drilled and taped with a fitting that goes to the other side of the T fitting. This above mentioned fitting is in line with the bottom recess/galley on the lower edge of the plate cover and appears to feed a hole drilled in the block to the left of the distributor drive area. It appears the gasket over this galley makes a place for the oil to run. Is this some sort of return or perhaps was it anticipated for a future oil filter. What would happen if the other end of the oil T fitting was capped off? I can't get photos to upload. This arrangement was fabricated by the prior owner. Also-the gasket I took off was a full cover size gasket that covered the entire metal plate. Replacement gasket just covers the edges of exposed block Thanks for any help. I try to load pictures but am told a 'security token' is missing.

Last edited by bullrunmotor; 10-13-2017 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 10:48 PM   #2
updraught
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

This might help:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ading+pictures

PS. I use IrfanView
http://www.irfanview.com/
to resize photos. Simple and free.
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:17 AM   #3
62pan
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

That bottom galley is under pressure to feed the main bearings on a B motor. Make sure you gasket covers the outside and that galley edge.
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Old 10-13-2017, 07:58 AM   #4
bullrunmotor
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

Thanks-that would explain why previous gasket covered the entire surface and not just the edges.. is this the galley area you mention in enclosed picture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 62pan View Post
That bottom galley is under pressure to feed the main bearings on a B motor. Make sure you gasket covers the outside and that galley edge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg model b 2.jpg (82.7 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg model b side cover.jpg (55.1 KB, 91 views)
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Old 10-13-2017, 10:31 AM   #5
johnneilson
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

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Originally Posted by bullrunmotor View Post
Thanks-that would explain why previous gasket covered the entire surface and not just the edges.. is this the galley area you mention in enclosed picture?
yes, that is the oil feed galley. the hole you are pointing to is the feed to the center main bearing.

it would appear someone has set this up to actually pressurize the mains, I say this because the port inline with the dist/oil drive is plugged. you will also want to look at the front of the galley, it will probably be plugged where it would dump oil onto the timing gears (facing forward).

All this being done, if you use the gasket, make sure to cut a hole for the oil to feed thru the gasket from the fitting in the cover, make it larger than the hole in the fitting coming in.

I have had really good luck without the gasket, YMMV, I use a Permatex sealant called MotoSil, it is a form of silicone sealant the hardens up pretty good. Obviously surfaces must be reasonably good condition and clean.

If and when you ever take the pan off, look at the rod caps, more than likely they are closed up and that is a good indication the crank is drilled for oiling.

John
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:02 AM   #6
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

As John says, you probably have a fully pressurized system. If the oil pressure gauge shows more than 5 lbs., it is, so don't plug any holes or lines as you will starve the engine from oil and end up with a pile of junk. If you are interested, e-mail me at jimb4e4@gmail.com and I'll send you the needed chapter on the B oil system from my 4-banger book.
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:20 PM   #7
d.j. moordigian
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

My B is also drilled and taped at the port, the intersection at the drive gear, 1/4 pipe.
The pipe plug hole near the pan rail is also drilled and tapped 1/4 pipe. The question is
this,...why not just run the enlarged hole in the oil galley FOR FULL PRESSURE?
My engine is full pressure..

Also, how small a "piss hole" in the front plug for the trimming gear?

I guess I need to buy your book Jim..

Thanks, Dudley
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Old 10-13-2017, 01:29 PM   #8
johnneilson
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian View Post
My B is also drilled and taped at the port, the intersection at the drive gear, 1/4 pipe.
The pipe plug hole near the pan rail is also drilled and tapped 1/4 pipe. The question is
this,...why not just run the enlarged hole in the oil galley FOR FULL PRESSURE?
My engine is full pressure..

Also, how small a "piss hole" in the front plug for the trimming gear?

I guess I need to buy your book Jim..

Thanks, Dudley
Dudley,

There are many thoughts on the subject, Jim's book is very thorough and explains a lot. In my opinion, the from plug towards the timing gears does not need a feed hole. The oil coming out of the front crank bearing should be more than adequate to lubricate the gears, also, you will have oil from the front cam bearing.

John
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:51 PM   #9
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

What did the previous owner say when asked??
Paul in CT
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:01 PM   #10
Dave in MN
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
Dudley,

There are many thoughts on the subject, Jim's book is very thorough and explains a lot. In my opinion, the from plug towards the timing gears does not need a feed hole. The oil coming out of the front crank bearing should be more than adequate to lubricate the gears, also, you will have oil from the front cam bearing.

John
Without a light spray into this area, I would think the camshaft plunger would run a bit dry. I usually plug the passage you are referring to and then drill it with a 1/32" bit. I use a high capacity Stipe oil pump in these applications.
I defer though to your experience as I have not tried it your way.
Good Day!
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #11
hardtimes
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in MN View Post
Without a light spray into this area, I would think the camshaft plunger would run a bit dry. I usually plug the passage you are referring to and then drill it with a 1/32" bit. I use a high capacity Stipe oil pump in these applications.
I defer though to your experience as I have not tried it your way.
Good Day!
Hey Dave,
You mention an important item that has not been mentioned in this subject...the oil pump !
The Stipe pump is excellent and I use one on one engine. The pumps capacity for consistent pressure/high pressure is important , IMO, to consider when making holes, how large and where to make them.
With your pump setup, 1/32" is prudent and I've done similar also. Now with an old worn out stock pump, maybe not so much. My B sitting on a stand, that plug is not drilled. It has a high pressure pump also.

However, what kind of engine and/or what it is to be used for is important when considering such oiling (holes) question. I've talked to old engine racer/builders and read where drilling the galley front plug is NOT necessary in their opinion...to oil timing gear areas. Nice to have choices and not be wrong either way. You choice

Last edited by hardtimes; 10-14-2017 at 12:40 PM. Reason: ...........
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #12
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

The stock hole in galley is plugged so as not to lose pressure. The B has enough internal leaks as-is, and difficult to hold good pressure. No hole in the front end of the galley is needed as there is an enormous amount of oil splashing around everywhere inside the engine, leave a front-cover bolt out and the leak will surprise you! I run a small line, pinched nearly shut, squirting under the timing gears, where they come together, on my race engines, just for insurance.
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Old 10-14-2017, 02:52 PM   #13
johnneilson
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

A notorious racer at Bonneville this year had a leak under the hood that looked like the filter had pushed out the seal again. (placed where the fuel pump boss is)
It turned out to be the timing pin hole in the front cover. And that with two stages of dry-sump scavenge on the pan. No provision for oil on the gears, just about 75 psi on the mains. IMHO, any excess oiling inside an engine is good, as long as it stays in.

J
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Old 10-15-2017, 11:35 AM   #14
Jim Brierley
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Default Re: Model B Motor Oil System Questions

For pressure systems you plug 2 holes in the galley, guess I wasn't clear on that. The one in the front (without a pee hole) and the one in the center which is where oil enters the galley in stock form, this is the one I was referring to.
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