Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-30-2011, 08:13 PM   #1
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I just finished rebuilding an engine for my 53 Merc. Had the new block magnafluxed - no cracks. Bored out to .60 over. Reused the pistons, rods, crank and cam. Had engine fully balanced. New rings, berings, and bushings. Fired it up last night and all was well. Took it out for a break-in run today and got about 2 miles and it seized. Oil pressure was 45 lbs at 30 mph. Temp was 170. Was running great until I came to a stop and then it just seized. Tried to turn it over by hand (2’ breaker bar on the front pulley bolt) with no luck. Drained the oil and nothing in the oil. Any suggestions....... before I pull the engine.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:20 PM   #2
nathanmac
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Invercargill, New Zealand
Posts: 86
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

incorrect ring gap? some swarf or blockage anywhere in an oil line?
nathanmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-30-2011, 08:25 PM   #3
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,364
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

What sort of clearances, ring end gap, etc.?
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:26 PM   #4
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I can only guess as this point as to possible blockage in the oil line ...the gap was checked at the machine shop after the bore was completed and again when I assembled it....
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:27 PM   #5
Lawson Cox
Senior Member
 
Lawson Cox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia
Posts: 5,050
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Try to crank it again after it cools down. I had the engine in a 28 Buick do the same thing after running it just a few miles. Pulled it down and everything looked fine. Cranked it back up and just nursed it along for a while and no further problems. Just built a little too snug I guess.
Lawson Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:47 PM   #6
Deuce-Merchant
Senior Member
 
Deuce-Merchant's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: BC Canada
Posts: 166
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Im confused, how do you reuse the old pistons if you bored the block .060 oversize???
Deuce-Merchant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:51 PM   #7
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

<FONT color=#1a1917><FONT face=Verdana>By way of more detail. My old engine was already bored out to .60 +. I had a crack between an exhaust valve and the cylinder so I decided to get a new block. Found the block and had it maganaflux to insure there were not cracks. Decided to reuse the pistons (.60), rods, crank and cam from the old engine. Had the block bored to match the pistons. Had new cam bearings pressed in, used new rings, rod bearings and main bearings. Had the engine balanced. Cleaned up the heads with a .008 cut. Resized the rods. Cut all seats. Installed exhaust seats. New pin bushings. Polish crank. Drilled intake for adjustable lifters. New adjustable lifters.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 08:57 PM   #8
Shadetree
Senior Member
 
Shadetree's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Cottageville, WV
Posts: 1,535
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

What a bummer! Sure hope it can be saved.

Shadetree
__________________
Son, you will never blow an engine up in high gear.
Shadetree is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 09:37 PM   #9
40 Deluxe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: now Kuna, Idaho
Posts: 2,820
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

How long between assembly and fire-up? I've seen wrist pins seize more than once due to lack of initial lubrication. We always seem to slather the rods and mains and cam lobes with lots of slick'em but igmore the pins! Or, if it sat a long time after assembly, the oil on the pins seems to go away (Pin oil clearance is so small to start with, there's not much oil to begin with).
40 Deluxe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 09:42 PM   #10
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Time between end of assembly and fire up...about 24 hours. I did pull the plugs and nothing. I drained the oil and nothing in the oil. My next step is to drop the steering linkage and pull the pan and that will tell me where I am going next.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 09:46 PM   #11
ford1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oroville ca.
Posts: 1,555
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

before you get to excited, pull the pan and loosen all the rods try to turn engine, if no luck loosen all the mains and try to turn engine, if no luck my guess the pistons or rings are froze up
ford1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:05 PM   #12
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

What was the actual piston to cylinder bore clearance after machining? What actual gap setting did you use for piston rings? Who is the piston manufacturer and what material are they made from? I'm thinking machined clearances could have been set too close. I hope the problem can be easily corrected and all turns out well for you. I know this has to be discouraging for you. I once had zero oil pressure at start up on a newly built FH engine and had to pull and dismantal most of the engine to find the problem and then check everything internal for possible damage. This was not my happiest Flathead V8ing memory but there was a happy ending. This engine is now running well and has gone over 6,000 miles.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 05-31-2011 at 10:10 AM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:11 PM   #13
Mike in AZ
Senior Member
 
Mike in AZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waddell, AZ
Posts: 2,528
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

pull the intake?? heads??....then see if it will turn over??....good luck...Mike
Mike in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2011, 11:17 PM   #14
Mike in AZ
Senior Member
 
Mike in AZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waddell, AZ
Posts: 2,528
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

another thot.....did you have the block drilled and tapped for full-flow oil filter...or the 95% full-flow??...are you running the filter now, if you did??....Mike
Mike in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 12:35 AM   #15
richard crow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,330
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

before you do any thing loosen the starter make sure it is not jamed the eng could of just stalled & when you went to start it the starter jamed it does happen onley takes a few min. to check.
richard crow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 02:25 AM   #16
52merc
Senior Member
 
52merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new zealand
Posts: 1,054
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

drilled intake for ajustable lifters ?
52merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:26 AM   #17
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Long shot - has the block been modified in the past for full flow filter (passage plugged) and you are running bypass or no filter and thought the passage was open like stock?

Cam bearings - oil drillings lined up?

I think I would be leaning towards careful disassembly, to isolate the cause, to prevent any further damage. Hopefully 99% of the motor is ok and can be reused once the problem is solved.

If it is a valve or lifter siezed then the engine will turn over almost 2 turns then stop and be able to wind back the same amount.

If the cam is siezed then the crank should move very slightly back and forth, just the play in the cam gears.

If all or some of the pistons are siezed, the crank might move very slightly, just the play in the bearings.

If a big end is tight, then very slight crank movement may be seen.

If the crank does not move at all, it is the main bearings that are stuck.

Good luck with it.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:54 AM   #18
Mike51Merc
Senior Member
 
Mike51Merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northeast Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,547
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I'd check out the mains and rod bearings. Could be a bit of debris got sucked through an oil passage and jammed one up.
Mike51Merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 07:29 AM   #19
Walt Dupont--Me.
Senior Member
 
Walt Dupont--Me.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gardiner Me.
Posts: 4,200
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc Cruiser, everybody is making a guess, let us know what you find. My guess is you have seazed a rod bearing. Walt
Walt Dupont--Me. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:11 AM   #20
allford
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 63
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Check that starter
allford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:15 AM   #21
Jack E/NJ
Senior Member
 
Jack E/NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Lawson Cox>>>Try to crank it again after it cools down.>>>

Did I miss Merc Cruzer's response to Lawson's suggestion? This is probably the first thing I'd try.

Jack E/NJ
Jack E/NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:32 AM   #22
David J
Senior Member
 
David J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St Croix Falls WI
Posts: 1,745
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ditto on this . And to add we had a racing motor once that did this and the culprit in that case was skirt to wall clearance set for cast pistons and forged pistons used instead . The motor folks can explain this better than me but it DEFINATELY locked it up just like what you are describing . When it cooled down it would turn again . This probably isn't your problem but it is something to add to your list . Let us know watcha find . David J
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ View Post
Lawson Cox>>>Try to crank it again after it cools down.>>>

Did I miss Merc Cruzer's response to Lawson's suggestion? This is probably the first thing I'd try.

Jack E/NJ
David J is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-31-2011, 12:36 PM   #23
Halvor
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New Hope Minnesota 55427
Posts: 37
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

You have two problems..One the oil pressure gauge does not work, and seconfd the oil in the pan is not circulating.so the pump is bad..
Halvor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:42 PM   #24
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The answer is Main bearing: the rear bearing was fine, the center bearing was toast and the front bearing was about to go.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN6640.jpg (54.2 KB, 332 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6641.jpg (43.9 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6639.jpg (74.2 KB, 329 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6633.jpg (64.4 KB, 274 views)
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:47 PM   #25
Bruce Lancaster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Madison, NJ
Posts: 5,230
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

So...autopsy must continue to cause.
Do note that oil route to rear bearing differs from that to other bearings. I would next yank cam timing gear and see if the gallery plug is installed...
Bruce Lancaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 01:52 PM   #26
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Bruce:
Yes the galley plug is installed...I took over 300 pictures and videos during the rebuild and I do have that picture....oil pressure was 45 lbs at 30 mph
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 02:33 PM   #27
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ouch!

Can't suggest anything other that what has already been said. Do you think (other than the rear bearing) the bearings had any oil other than assembly lube?

If the rear bearing is ok, the pump must be ok.

Checked the passages at the rear of the block? (see my previous reply - it's a long shot but would cause the failure you have experienced.)

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 02:40 PM   #28
Andy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kerrville, Tx
Posts: 2,242
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

It is hard to clean the main oil line. The fuel pump bushing is in the way. I made a special driver to knock it thru to the cam bore. I cleaned the passage with a wire brush and oily rags.I suspect some blockage in the line or around the bushing. You do have the bushing installed? That will drop the pressure. I suspect a blockage rather than a leak.
Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:15 PM   #29
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 2,836
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Aside from a possible lubrication problem, consider a bent crank.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:19 PM   #30
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Andy:

Yes the fuel pump bushing is installed. I cleaned out the oil passage with long wire brushes, then follow up with gun cleaning rags on the bore rods soaked in solvent. Actually I thought the oil pressure was fine....book says 57 lbs at 40 mph, mine was 45 lbs at 30 mph
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:19 PM   #31
FlatheadTed
Senior Member
 
FlatheadTed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,949
Send a message via AIM to FlatheadTed
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I would have thought the rear main would have gone first if it was a lack of of oil since it lubes it first.
__________________
http://www.flatheadted.com
FlatheadTed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:25 PM   #32
Chris Nelson
Senior Member
 
Chris Nelson's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Poulsbo, WA.
Posts: 356
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I had a problem not too disimilar. I lost oil pressure due to the new camshaft breaking at the gear that drives the oil pump. The engine ran like a dream, but the pump was not turning.
Chris Nelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:35 PM   #33
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Just would like to place a "tip" here for all following this post...

when rebuilding these "Flatties" you MUST have the shop remove the crank plugs and clean the throws thoroughly. You will usually always find build-up and debri "caked" up in there. It's worse also if there were any spun bearings previously, if left as-is, the material finds it's way back into the fresh rebuild and just MAY cause the problem mentioned here.

"Boiling" the crank will NOT clean this area!

Not saying it is the issue here, but it definitely needs attention!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. We drill & tap EVERY crank throw, whether Ford or Merc, for some 3/8" NPT pipe plugs, this is done prior to balancing the unit!
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 03:58 PM   #34
David J
Senior Member
 
David J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St Croix Falls WI
Posts: 1,745
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Did anyone check the line bore ? Did you plastigauge the mains ? I see it is a replacement block and maybe something happened in the past to it . Seems odd for the rear to be fine - the middle toast and the front going . Also look at how the front is only bad on one end . . Curiosity is gaining momentum on thissun . Good luck . David J
David J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 04:35 PM   #35
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

1) As said before, was that block drilled for the 95% oil filter system and then not hooked up?
2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?

My guess is #1
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:01 PM   #36
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Kahuna:

1. yes...both holes were then pluged to be used at a later date.

2. Not sure what your are asking.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:17 PM   #37
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,600
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Modifications carried out on the oil system have to be well sorted out to make sure the oil gets to all passages as required. If the plugs aren't put in the correct locations, there can be a BIG problem. All the bearings surfaces above and in front of the rear main bearing depend on it.

Kerby
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:28 PM   #38
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Are you saying that due to the modification I now need to install the 95% oil filter system?
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 05:54 PM   #39
Gumpy
Senior Member
 
Gumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: petaluma, california
Posts: 1,418
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I agree check the starter before you do anything pull it out....bendix could be stuck on flywheel....happened to me once!
Gumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:04 PM   #40
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Gumpy:

Thank you, that will be the first thing I do....you could be right!

Thanks for the humor, the only good thing I found so far was, it is sure a joy working on a totaly clean engine!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:10 PM   #41
rotorwrench
Senior Member
 
rotorwrench's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 9,600
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer View Post
Are you saying that due to the modification I now need to install the 95% oil filter system?

It might be a question about what plug to remove in order for the modified system to work without being connected. There is a diagram in this thread from the flathead techno site. www.flatheadv8.org/filter.htm

If the plug that's installed in the cross passage is not removed the oil can't get to the main feed line if the filter system is not installed as intended. If the internal plug was removed then disreguard.

Kerby
rotorwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:29 PM   #42
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

If you still have the other engine check the front and middle caps and my guess they got mixed.Maybe you can get a .040 under bearing.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-31-2011, 06:35 PM   #43
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

rotowrench:

When I had it drilled for the 95% filter, it was because the block was out of the car! I had them block it off for now as I was going to use the origional system and later put the 95% filter system on. When I go to tear it down I will have to check to see if the grub screw is in the passage.....haven't pulled the rod caps off yet...stopped when I found the center main fried.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:35 PM   #44
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

"2) Were the oil holes from cam to crank checked for alignment?"

Kahuna asked this question and you replied that you did not understand what he was asking.

Kahuna is a buddy of mine and it is interesting that we both must have had the same ideas this afternoon while he was posting. I was out, putting on the pan for a 59A that I have rebuilt and thinking about your thread and wondering the same thing, kinda. "Who installed your cam bearings and did that person get the holes in the cam bearings aligned north/south?" That is, the progression of the oil is from the pump up to the tube running in the lifter valley (never mind about the oil filter at this point) down to the cam bearings from holes from that tube to them, then down to the main bearings from cam bearing holes and troughs cut in the bearings. The holes in the cam bearings are aligned north/south in the block relative to up/down. So, you could have great oil pressure because it is measured before the oil goes to the cam bearings but the oil is not being allowed to migrate to the 1st and 2nd mains. As Bruce pointed out, the rear main gets oil from differently so the third cam bearing not aligned is not as critical for the rear main.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:40 PM   #45
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

George/Maine:

Checked the bearings when they came in....all were .030's. I just went down and checked the old block...nothing mixed with the new block. I will check line bore when it is dissembled again.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 06:48 PM   #46
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

36bird:

Wish I could tell you for sure, as they were done by the machine shop...but I cann't...I willl look when I tear it down again...I am making a list of things to check...feel free to add to the list.

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 05-31-2011 at 06:53 PM.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 07:32 PM   #47
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

36bird;

Many of my pictures are too big to post, so I took a picture of one on my screen..I think this naswers yours and Kahuna's question...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN6645.jpg (74.0 KB, 554 views)
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 07:42 PM   #48
OLD...BILL
Senior Member
 
OLD...BILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern California,coast
Posts: 552
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I think your going to find the ( add it plug ) in the passage, that was drilled for the 95 % filtering system, see the diagram in rotowrench therad it is called; "the 7/16 allen head set screw," if it is in place the oil goes out to filter ands pressure gage and returns to cam and the two main bearings, with no oil filter in service, the out let is pluged, oil stays in the pump shaft / bore area and goes to the rear main ONLY.... this is sad.... We may all learn from it, ..hope this helps, sorry....OLD....BILL
OLD...BILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #49
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I think you are right....if so then if it prevents another engine failure, then it was worth it....
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:14 PM   #50
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This a completed filter system in his case the grub screw must not be there as he doesn't have a spin on installed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 95%25%20flow.JPG (29.9 KB, 434 views)
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:35 PM   #51
john stimac
Member
 
john stimac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lake Havasu City
Posts: 85
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I agree with MART'S long shot. Had the same thing happen to me on a 8ba. someone put a plug in the filter by pass area at the rear of the block, resulted in no oil pressure at the front of the motor.
john stimac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 08:41 PM   #52
phartman
Senior Member
 
phartman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 328
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE

Last edited by phartman; 05-31-2011 at 08:51 PM.
phartman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 09:19 PM   #53
David J
Senior Member
 
David J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: St Croix Falls WI
Posts: 1,745
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The " after the road trip " scene . Good stuff . Merc Cruiser , It takes a good person to be civil & understanding in a situation like this and for that I think you're allright . Good luck and hopefully most parts will be OK . David J PS to all - The depth of knowledge on this site is absolutely amazing
Quote:
Originally Posted by phartman View Post
Take the motor down to the Animal House fraternity and let D-Day have a whack at it. As for you? Follow Bluto's advice....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uepFO4psgKE
David J is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2011, 11:56 PM   #54
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 04:58 AM   #55
Zeke...PA
Senior Member
 
Zeke...PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Delta, PA
Posts: 525
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

As stated if the block was drilled for 95% filtering and the filter was not installed or a jumper used, oil channel starved of oil. Zeke
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FullFlow.jpg (61.1 KB, 123 views)
__________________
Only problem with retirement is never a day off
Zeke...PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 06:25 AM   #56
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I'll place a couple photos of the block below for anyone who hasn't actually seen one finished with the oiling mod.

It is a very effective system when "plumbed" correctly.

Most info up here is correct, the "internal" (redirecting) plug must be left out without the filter in the system. This is how we dynoed a recent build, upon delivery the customer installed the "by-pass" plug to get the oil supply to the filter.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. This recent build runs with 30#+ idle pressure and 50#+ at cruising speeds!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead Oiling Mod-A.JPG (79.5 KB, 289 views)
File Type: jpg Flathead Oiling Mod-B.JPG (72.3 KB, 272 views)
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 08:12 AM   #57
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc Cruzer, This was certainly a tough way for you to have to learn about this. I hope your engine damage is minimal and you can get it fixed and back on the road soon. I also hope others, including myself, will remember this and not make the same mistake. One thing I plan to do is take that picture that's been posted here (and is in my files) and add a note warning not to make this modification without including the oil filter. Please keep us posted on the outcome of your engine. Good luck!
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 06-01-2011 at 08:27 AM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 08:18 AM   #58
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I've never seen the system installed before, most books tell you how, but leave out the pics. Do you have any pics without the fittings? Did you machine a flat on the block before drilling the hole in the passage? Also it looks like you used a larger pipe thread size on all the passages. I know the horizontal one would have to be larger in order to get the grub plug in place(run a tap in the passage). If you do this to an 8BA, you would not use the lower block return, right?
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:04 AM   #59
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,364
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlea View Post
The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.
Are these fittings available today?
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:17 AM   #60
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:36 AM   #61
dude
Senior Member
 
dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kansas
Posts: 329
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I agree with Mr Crow ,and allford, Had wrong starter plate on a engine that would lockup. car and truck and some Merc are diff.
__________________
[QUO[/QUOTE]no matter where you are,or where you're at, there you are...
dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:39 AM   #62
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Essentially, all that needs to be done is "jumper" around the 95% system to avoid the problem you encountered. I'm out of town at the moment or I could send you a picture.
Sorry that you had to learn this the HARD way.
Best of luck
Jim
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-01-2011, 12:59 PM   #63
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Certainly a jumper hose will work around the grub screw if you know the grub screw is there, but my point was that the way Ford engineered the 95% full flow, you would need to remove the fittings to plug the ports, and in doing so you remove the block. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 01:20 PM   #64
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,364
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlea View Post
The fitting can be made by modifying one of the brass fittings that are used to change from the 1/4" pipe thread (3/8" ID) oil ports to the 3/8" ID flexible pressure line to the full-flow filter base. Use a drill press to run a 3/8" bit slightly into the bottom of the fitting and a short piece of thinwall brass tubing can be soldered in place. This is a slip-fit 1 1/4" down the vertical oil passage and will be long enough to pass the horizontal passage and isolate the "out" from the "in". No grub screw surprises. ..B.
Thanks, I had been thinking of doing something like that rather than drilling and tapping that horizontal passage. Just hadn't tried to put it together. Big help.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 03:15 PM   #65
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlea View Post
The system used by Ford Canada in WWll engines and as option until '51 did not use a grub screw to block the horizontal connecting passage. The outboard vertical oil port used a special brass fitting with a 1 1/4" long thinwall tube projecting from it's bottom that blocked the horizontal passage when it was in place. If the full flow filter was to be disconnected, the brass fittings that connected to the flexible 3/8" ID hose would be removed for the pipe plugs to go in, and the passage would be open for either the use of the partial flow filter, or no filter. Since all Ford Canada blocks had the extra inboard oil port, dealers could easily add or remove the filter and special fitting. ..B.
Barlea, Is there any way that you could do a sketch and/or take some close up digital pictures of the actual parts you are describing and post them here? I'm probably a little dense, but I'm having a difficult time understanding what you are talking about in your post quoted above. Thank you
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 03:27 PM   #66
BillM
Senior Member
 
BillM's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 504
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Here is a picture from the Canadian manual. The fitting in question is the one on the left at the bottom of the two oil lines.
The manual can be found here (Post #149): http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...66#post4590066
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Canadian_full_flow_sm.jpg (27.4 KB, 267 views)
__________________
My web page:
http://myplace.frontier.com/~wgmumaw/

Last edited by BillM; 06-01-2011 at 03:43 PM. Reason: Added manual info.
BillM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 04:34 PM   #67
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This will work

2¢more

R
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead oil mod.jpg (34.5 KB, 362 views)
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 05:34 PM   #68
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

BiilM & Ronnie, Thanks for posting pics and other info. I understand better now. Also copied into my files. Thank you
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 06:04 PM   #69
Kohnke Rebabbitting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524
Posts: 1,363
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer View Post
The answer is Main bearing: the rear bearing was fine, the center bearing was toast and the front bearing was about to go.
Mr. Merc, I think you said that you went 2 miles before it stuck, if the oil pressure was low, to none, you wouldn't have made it two miles. Looking at the bearings you posted, those bearings with out a doubt, did NOT have enough clearance. The one that has a hard rub on it, is a dead give away. Also the one that is smeared. Bearings always tell the story. Herm.
Kohnke Rebabbitting is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 06:38 PM   #70
Mike in AZ
Senior Member
 
Mike in AZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waddell, AZ
Posts: 2,528
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

rear bearing got oil....other bearings, etc. did not because of the oil gallery being plugged with that horizontal plug for the 95% full-flow bilter....Mike
Mike in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 07:31 PM   #71
42ford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I am somewhat confused. I have a new block. I guess is was a Canadian block. There are 3 3/8 npt holes on the back of the bell just like several of these pics and diagrams show. What I did was to install the oil sending unit on the top of the small boss that has one on the side also. I then installed the line to the oil filter ( original type that mounts on the head with 3 head bolts) I ran the return line to the oil pan boss as in the original 42 - 48 pans. I have about 400 miles and get great oil pressure. Is that OK? Would I gain anything by moving the return line to the unused boss on the bell ? I bought the block in a crate from Joblot in the 70s and installed all new Ford parts that were purchased from them at the same time. The salesman that they had at time was great and told me how to do it
Thanks,
Dick
42ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 07:53 PM   #72
42ford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

At one time there was a man selling what must have been the grub screw. He was a clu member and lived on one of the islands of the northern Ca coast.
42ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 08:18 PM   #73
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

So will this system work with a canister style filter? I would like to keep mine traditional looking and plan to put a firewall mounted filter. A spin on would be way out of place.
I like the O-ring style plug, you could put your pressure gage off a Y fitting at the block as well.
Does anyone have the specs on that type plug?
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 09:03 PM   #74
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

What kind of canister a by pass set up?
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2011, 10:05 PM   #75
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Well, it's off a 1950's army truck, but similar to the original Ford units except firewall mounted. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 07:04 AM   #76
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I just want to add, while the block is being machined, it's fairly simple to get all the passageways drilled and tapped. Not a real big deal!

This eliminates that "special" adapter with the "O" ring built in!

Once you machine the "top" access holes you still have the factory location for the pressure guage. You end up with 3 functional holes and ALL are at the rear and pretty much out-of-sight for the most part.

With respect to the issue here, the machine shop should have explained the function of the entire procedure AND made it clear to the customer just how to set up (plumb) the system??

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's a few shots of the lines and the filter mounted in the Merc! You cant see the line for the guage, but it is just below the 2 filter lines below/behind the left side head!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Rons Engine-B.JPG (82.3 KB, 197 views)
File Type: jpg Rons Engine-C.JPG (72.5 KB, 169 views)
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 09:06 AM   #77
John Kennedy
Senior Member
 
John Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson Arizona
Posts: 301
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This is all really great info! Would the 59A be the same? Mine's a '48 block.
__________________
Building a 29 Sedan on 32 chassis........ very slowly....
John Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 10:17 AM   #78
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Here's the filter I plan to use(will be chromed eventually). and John I have a 59 block and it has a boss on the back of the block. Looks like the spot for the extra hole for the full flow system.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oil filter 003.jpg (47.8 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg oil filter 002.jpg (45.0 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg oil filter 004.jpg (44.3 KB, 116 views)
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 10:47 AM   #79
Henry/Kokomo
Senior Member
 
Henry/Kokomo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Kokomo, Indiana
Posts: 1,731
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ralph - You're right about the boss being the right place to drill the extra hole. Subject to more informed opinions, I would think the filter canister you plan to use would need to have larger inlet and outlet ports installed for a full flow setup. If you're going to have it chromed, that would cover the welding used in the modification. Yet another $.02 worth.
Henry/Kokomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 03:07 PM   #80
OLD...BILL
Senior Member
 
OLD...BILL's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern California,coast
Posts: 552
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

YES it can be made to work BUT..B..U..T.. John Kennedy, yes; on the 59 block works best, Ralph Moore, yes can be made to work, Henry Kokomo, Is right larger fittings, in and out "" BUT "" the filter elment, it's self come in question, could it stand the pressure of a full flow system ?? Henrys original felter was a "drip system" at best, but it dose work as I change the oil and filter on the old 9N, tractor it is full of crud, and the oil is clean...and I fullie understand how you want to keep the under the hood looking original, I try to do the same, and some chrome too, don't give up uo the 95 % full flow, and Hey John " JM ..35..Sedan .. are you going to jump in here and show us how and where you mounted you full flow on the lower, left side of the engine, down low and out of sight. also in cool air flow area too. he is not dense, and an engineer, may me slow on house rules, but once he see it, it gets fixed,,, hee.. hee ...I do hope we can all learn for this... sad. ....OLD...BILL
OLD...BILL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 04:26 PM   #81
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Moore View Post
Well, it's off a 1950's army truck, but similar to the original Ford units except firewall mounted. I'll post a pic as soon as I can.
To use that system as is with larger lines would not have any bypass system included which would not be a smart idea when you filter before the bearings.If the filter became plugged and did its job then you would suffer oil starvation not what you want.A compromise would be a spin on filter disguised inside which already exists and looks not too bad but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
My2¢

R
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 05:36 PM   #82
John R
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: near Washington, DC
Posts: 434
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I searched my files of the old Fordbarn and found a reference (several years old) to a fellow, Bryan Buckley ("49merc") in Powell River, British Columbia who made the Canadian-style fitting to convert to "full flow" oiling. His email is (was): bhb@prcn.org This info was posted by Fordbarner "Scotty." If someone follows up on this, let us know if its still available.
John R is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-02-2011, 06:55 PM   #83
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Bryan's plug with o-ring, illustrated further back in the thread, uses a fitting threaded into the horizontal port with a stem to bridge across the vertical passage without blocking it. It accomplishes the same thing as the fitting in the Ford Canada system which uses an extension tube from above to block the horizontal passage. Either work well on a Ford Canada block because the inboard vertical port was drilled and tapped at the factory. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 08:37 PM   #84
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

A lot of machining required, but a spin on, hidden in the cannister, would be a trick setup.
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 09:11 PM   #85
Kahuna
Senior Member
 
Kahuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 2,617
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Contact 36Tbird here. I think he's making those hidden ones
Kahuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 09:18 PM   #86
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Moore View Post
A lot of machining required, but a spin on, hidden in the cannister, would be a trick setup.
Here is one
http://www.thehotrodcompany.com/shop...duct_id=obholu

R
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2011, 09:49 PM   #87
ajohn
Senior Member
 
ajohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tyler,TX
Posts: 461
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Simply amazing!I had a similar experience with my 801 Powermaster Ford tractor.The starter drive gear came in three pieces and wedged the flywheel.Same simptoms,easy fix.
ajohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:49 AM   #88
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Kahuna is my west coast rep for the Pigpen oil filter conversion. (Pigpen was my Navy fighter call sign.)

Anyway, I do have the goofy idea to try to make these but I have yet to test one. I have two almost ready to go with the engines to test on but many other projects are higher priority right now. If I ever get into it, it will have to be on an exchange basis because I do not have a very big supply of canisters.

They are labor intensive to build. To get a good cut on the bottom of the canisters, I first cut a hole big enough to put a boring bar with a cutter in it on my lathe. I tried to hand cut out bottoms of the canisters and they came out all jagged and uneven so that is why I use the lathe. You obviously have to cut from the inside out because of the mounting tabs which are treacherous when spinning around on the lathe.

I found some solid aluminum cylinders that I cut into about 1.25" slugs. I machine those for the oil filters to spin onto and fit into the canisters. Of course, they are drilled out the sides for the oil fittings.

Fitting all of the pieces together is sometimes tricky. In my short experience with trying this project, there seems to be a lot of disparity between the canisters, maybe due to wear and tear over the years.

I'll try to post pics soon of the prototype. Some may remember the engine I posted about where I did an old school home rebuild. I don't have a test stand or an available car around to put that engine in to start. I've come up with the idea that I am going to spin it with the plugs out using the starter to get the oil pressure up and lubricating. I modified that engine for the 95% filtration and put a gauge bunge on the back to block side of the filter. I figure that will tell me if the oil is going thru the filter OK. Stay tuned.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:49 AM   #89
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Thanks Ronnie! Now that's a sweet setup. It doesn't say which filter it uses, and if it is available polished, but I gotta have one of those.
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 09:04 AM   #90
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I forgot to mention, I picked up another block yesterday, had one 8CM head, other missing, and someone took the crank out years ago(left pistons and rods). I thought I found a good Merc block. It didn't look too bad, but had been sitting outside for a long time. Well I was dissapointed when I pulled the one head and found massive rust in two cylinders. So much that when I flaked it off I discovered deep pits in the cylinder walls.
I think it's too far gone for sleeving, but it will at least let me practice drilling the hole and tapping for the full flow oil system.
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 02:12 PM   #91
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Thought I better go out to take some pics to maintain some degree of credibility about my oil filter conversion. Right now I am making them for a Motorcraft FL-1A to fit and that is the bottom of one seen in the pictures. Tried to show an example of the slug that I turn to cut the groove in and how it fits in the canister. Again, I have not tested this yet but oil in should equal oil out. When I do my test, you can see the fitting I made where I am going to put in a direct reading oil pressure gauge.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oilfilter1.jpg (55.9 KB, 224 views)
File Type: jpg oilfilter2.jpg (70.3 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg oilfilter3.jpg (64.5 KB, 226 views)
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 03:02 PM   #92
42ford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Hi
Still looking for an answer to my previous post about my Canadian block. I ran the oil filter line from the boss with the 2 fittings on it. It runs from there to toe original type oil filter mounted on the front of the drivers side head. The return line runs fr4om the bottom of the filter housing to the fitting on the oil pan. The other hole has a plug in it.
I have about 400 miles on the engine now. Any suggestions?
thanks,
Dick
42ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 03:52 PM   #93
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

42, went back and reviewed your posted question and at least as far as I am concerned, not sure what your question is. From what I can glean, it sounds like you have the stock oil filter set up and if that is so, your only concern would be to make sure you have the proper bypass fitting installed on the inlet side of the filter. Think of it this way, Ford put those filters on there as a marketing ploy, IMO and they are designed just to siphon off a little of the oil as it travels up from the pump to the the routing throughout the engine. It siphoned off some of the oil, filtered it and returned that oil to the sump. If you don't have that bypass fitting, too much oil will be taken through the filter and returned directly to the pan. Hope that helps. Others smarter than me can clarify more.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 04:08 PM   #94
Zeke...PA
Senior Member
 
Zeke...PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Delta, PA
Posts: 525
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ralph, had the same problem with an 8BA block I purchased, this block cleaned up at 3 5/16, used Offenhauser pistons from Speedway, Zeke
Attached Images
File Type: jpg relieving 011.jpg (44.2 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg ebay 025.jpg (86.8 KB, 86 views)
__________________
Only problem with retirement is never a day off

Last edited by Zeke...PA; 06-04-2011 at 06:28 AM.
Zeke...PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 04:09 PM   #95
52merc
Senior Member
 
52merc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: new zealand
Posts: 1,054
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

a friend of minehas been running a oils system like that for a couple of years now exactly the same except his old cannister is chromed it works real well trev
52merc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 04:12 PM   #96
42ford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Yes I have the restriction fitting installed. Yes you answered my question, thank you. I was worried that the block, when manufactured, was sold with out something like the grub plug. I did not think that was the case as I have good oil pressure and if the oil just went in and out, I would not have any oil pressure. As far as needing to filter more oil, I only drive about 1000 miles a year and change the oil every year.
42ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 04:16 PM   #97
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This turned out to be an interesting post.

I would add that it would be beneficial to maintain the I.D. of all the passageway's and not have any sections "undersize" for lack of a better word!

Some recommendatiuons here, if I'm reading correctly, would be to use rubber hose with clamps for retention!

You really don't want clamps & hoses exposed to 50#/60# oil pressure, much better choice to use "AN" type fittings if possible! They will NOT come off during operation!

Below is a closer shot of the mod showing the diameter of the I.D. on the "AN" type fittings! It maintains the integrity of the system.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Here's the closer shot of both 1/2" NPT adapters! The actual opening at the flare is approximately .400", enough to eliminate any restrictions, especially with any remote filter setup.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead Oiling Mod-A.JPG (79.6 KB, 168 views)
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 06:23 PM   #98
Mike in AZ
Senior Member
 
Mike in AZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Waddell, AZ
Posts: 2,528
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

42ford...if you have been running your setup without any problems, i would say all is fine....you don't have a plug in the horizontal channel and your setup is per original....does your oil pressure rise when the engine is revved, etc??....i don't "think" you have any problems, so enjoy your car....Mike
Mike in AZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 07:03 PM   #99
41panelmark
Senior Member
 
41panelmark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,138
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

So I have a question. I have a fresh engine with around 250 mile on it that uses the old style filter set up mounted to the driver's side head. Going down the road I have 60+ pounds according to the gauge on the dash. When I am at idle that reading goes way down to 10. I do not have a restricter in the line. The line comes out at the oil pressure switch and goes into the filter canister. From there it goes up to the front of the timing cover. Forgot to put the line on after a distributor adjustment one time. Pumped out almost the entire crankcase worth of oil in about 15 seconds.

If I put a restricter in the line will I be safe? Do I need one?
41panelmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 08:12 PM   #100
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

With the orginal filter i guess it feed to much and was slowed down and return to the lower plug to pan.My 8ba i didn,t put the filter back on pluged the lines and works fine.Today with computer someone says i filter 95% of my oil and now the word is out,boy i want to do that.Now lets see how many more motors will be burnt up.In the day 2000 mile oil change was good enought.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2011, 11:20 PM   #101
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

By-pass filter needs 1/4" ID lines, full flow needs 3/8" ID lines, according to Henry's engineers. Since the oil pump is a metering pump, it will pump exactly the same volume every revolution regardless if part of the circuit is larger or through a filter cannister etc. You can't encourage a gear pump to pump more volume, you have to spin it faster or make it bigger. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2011, 04:10 AM   #102
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by 41panelmark View Post
So I have a question. I have a fresh engine with around 250 mile on it that uses the old style filter set up mounted to the driver's side head. Going down the road I have 60+ pounds according to the gauge on the dash. When I am at idle that reading goes way down to 10. I do not have a restricter in the line. The line comes out at the oil pressure switch and goes into the filter canister. From there it goes up to the front of the timing cover. Forgot to put the line on after a distributor adjustment one time. Pumped out almost the entire crankcase worth of oil in about 15 seconds.

If I put a restricter in the line will I be safe? Do I need one?

This is a bypass filter setup, right?
There should be a 1/16" approx restrictor in the line, to limit the amount of oil being taken away from the bearings etc. The restrictor is built into the fitting as the oil comes from the engine, if there is no restrictor, you should plug the bore of the fitting and drill it 1/16".

The above is irrelevant for full flow systems, only good for bypass systems.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-04-2011, 11:59 AM   #103
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Zeke,
Here's what this one looks like. I haven't measured it yet, but some of the pits are pretty deep.

So, anyway to use lines for the oil system that would look a little more period correct than AN fittings?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg rust 001.jpg (67.3 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg rust 002.jpg (75.9 KB, 66 views)
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 07:27 AM   #104
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Mart:

Do you have a picture:

There should be a 1/16" approx restrictor in the line, to limit the amount of oil being taken away from the bearings etc. The restrictor is built into the fitting as the oil comes from the engine, if there is no restrictor, you should plug the bore of the fitting and drill it 1/16".
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 01:26 PM   #105
John Kennedy
Senior Member
 
John Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson Arizona
Posts: 301
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I apologize for still being confused here, but on my 1948 59a block, i found no grub screw, but a spring loaded valve. I see the exterior boss where I need to drill and thread, looks to be angled inward some.

Should I drill and tap this, and then block off the two passages with a grub screw?
And what is meant by a 95% system? 5% gets filtered? or 5% does not?
__________________
Building a 29 Sedan on 32 chassis........ very slowly....
John Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 04:00 PM   #106
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Post 41 by rotorwrench tells it the best.
I didn,t know what was being said.
I guess it would be like a house the first floor toilet "main bearing" gets 5% and every thing on 2nd floor gets filted.
Or like those filters you put on the fosset for drinking.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 04:33 PM   #107
John Kennedy
Senior Member
 
John Kennedy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson Arizona
Posts: 301
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Thanks George, I missed that before. Saved and printed. I will be running electric pump, so I guess that cam bearing gets installed 90 degrees rotated.
__________________
Building a 29 Sedan on 32 chassis........ very slowly....
John Kennedy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 05:05 PM   #108
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The way the oil pump is set up in the flathead, the oil pump feeds the rear main directly. The rest of the engine is fed from the gallery. When you tap into the gallery and introduce a full flow filtering system, you filter the supply to everything except the rear main. Because not everything gets filtered oil, it's dubbed a 95% system. It's not an exact number, just a name.

On the subject of the bypass filter: I'm sorry I do not have a pic of my restricted fitting.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 07:17 PM   #109
Rich Overton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 135
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

All of the above are good suggestions. You say that you pulled the plugs. Did you try to turn the engine over with the plugs out? I rebuilt a 350 ( please forgive me guys ) Chevy for a boat about 12 years ago, took her for a spin and seized in about 20 minutes. Cracked head filled the cylinder with water!
Rich Overton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 08:39 PM   #110
Walt Dupont--Me.
Senior Member
 
Walt Dupont--Me.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Gardiner Me.
Posts: 4,200
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlea View Post
By-pass filter needs 1/4" ID lines, full flow needs 3/8" ID lines, according to Henry's engineers. Since the oil pump is a metering pump, it will pump exactly the same volume every revolution regardless if part of the circuit is larger or through a filter cannister etc. You can't encourage a gear pump to pump more volume, you have to spin it faster or make it bigger. ..B.
Barler, how about those Canada blocks that came from the factory or army enginers with full flow filters, that just had the 1/4in. pipe thread holes like the the std. engine. Walt
Walt Dupont--Me. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 09:00 PM   #111
Tinker
Senior Member
 
Tinker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 4,436
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Moore View Post
Zeke,
Here's what this one looks like. I haven't measured it yet, but some of the pits are pretty deep.

So, anyway to use lines for the oil system that would look a little more period correct than AN fittings?

Yikes!
Tinker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 09:19 PM   #112
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me. View Post
Barler, how about those Canada blocks that came from the factory or army enginers with full flow filters, that just had the 1/4in. pipe thread holes like the the std. engine. Walt
Yes, the military engines and the post-war Ford Canada V8s with the full flow option used the 1/4" pipe thread oil ports, but remember that 1/4" pipe thread is bigger than 1/4", and a 1/4" pipe thread fitting for a 3/8" ID pressure hose or pipe will provide a 3/8"ID through it. The drawing from the '46 Ford Mercury Monarch parts manual shows the type available through '48, with 3/8" ID hard lines, and the later type available until the end of '51 used a different cannister and 3/8" flexible lines. Both used a similar fitting into the outboard oil port for the pressure line to the filter. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 09:38 PM   #113
Ralph Moore
Senior Member
 
Ralph Moore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North Pole, Alaska
Posts: 1,470
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I'm planning on putting the motor in this car. It's free for the taking, I just have to get it home without my wife seeing it.LOL
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 50ford 001.jpg (111.6 KB, 96 views)
File Type: jpg 50ford 003.jpg (111.1 KB, 110 views)
Ralph Moore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 10:20 PM   #114
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barlea View Post
Yes, the military engines and the post-war Ford Canada V8s with the full flow option used the 1/4" pipe thread oil ports, but remember that 1/4" pipe thread is bigger than 1/4", and a 1/4" pipe thread fitting for a 3/8" ID pressure hose or pipe will provide a 3/8"ID through it. The drawing from the '46 Ford Mercury Monarch parts manual shows the type available through '48, with 3/8" ID hard lines, and the later type available until the end of '51 used a different cannister and 3/8" flexible lines. Both used a similar fitting into the outboard oil port for the pressure line to the filter. ..B.
I have weatherhead 1/4" male pipe to 3/8" id barbed hose fittings in my shop they have a .250" passage through them not 3/8". Impossible to have a 3/8" barb fitting with a 3/8" passage for a hose with a 3/8" id. Id and od would be the same ??

R
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 10:59 PM   #115
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

These are not barbed fittings, they are for hard lines and the later ones fit up to manufactured flex lines, the ID is 3/8" or very nearly so, when the bottom of the brass fitting is drilled with a 3/8" bit it only takes a very slight amount to allow the 3/8" thinwall tube to slip in. The tube fits into the oil port the same as the factory fitting to block the horizontal passage except the factory fitting was machined in one piece with the same dimensions. Bear in mind the factory designed the oil passages with ample size for the flow that the pump would produce and a slight restriction would not cause any constipation to worry about. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2011, 11:20 PM   #116
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

You are missing the point the 1/4" pipe end has .250" inside bore hole.
1/4" pipe od is .495".
A 3/8" hole is .375" difference of .120"
.060" wall thickness. This does not take into consideration the thread depth?
1/4" pipe is 1/4" pipe
R
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 07:53 AM   #117
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I think you guys have been watching "Days of Thunder" too much. That is, Robert Duvall talking about hiding increased oil quantity in bigger lines. I can't wait to see the NASCAR flathead.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 08:48 AM   #118
Jack E/NJ
Senior Member
 
Jack E/NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,579
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Now Lou. Doncha know a lotta us old geezers have forgotten about the age-old suggestion of simply changing oil every few thousand miles might actually be enough to keep an old flathead from havin' a stroke or seizure? So due to our fading memory we're more or less forced to get anal about dressing up and sometimes plugging up our beloved flatties with fancy plumbing and chrome-plated filters. Geez, I thought all old geezers knew that! 8^)

Jack E/NJ
Attached Images
File Type: jpg kendall.jpg (8.0 KB, 663 views)
Jack E/NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 10:20 AM   #119
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
You are missing the point the 1/4" pipe end has .250" inside bore hole.
1/4" pipe od is .495".
A 3/8" hole is .375" difference of .120"
.060" wall thickness. This does not take into consideration the thread depth?
1/4" pipe is 1/4" pipe
R
OK, just measured the Ford fitting, ID of the fitting and the tube from the bottom is .308 and the OD of the tube looks to be .372 so about .030 wall thickness of the tube. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 01:58 PM   #120
Ronnie
Senior Member
 
Ronnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Canada Where it snows
Posts: 1,918
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Thanks Bar

That must be a real good forged fitting of some sort.

R
Ronnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-06-2011, 03:12 PM   #121
Gary in La.
Senior Member
 
Gary in La.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 781
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Here are pictures of the stock Ford oil inlet restrictor fitting. The hole is 1/16" .0625.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EBAY AUCTION 835.jpg (90.6 KB, 81 views)
File Type: jpg EBAY AUCTION 836.jpg (75.3 KB, 77 views)
Gary in La. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2011, 04:23 PM   #122
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Just as an update: Cause: plug in the passage way. I got lucky and rebuild is to have the crank polished, new gaskets and rod and main bearings....plus alot of cleaning.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 06-09-2011, 06:14 PM   #123
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Lucky it siezed quickly before a lot of damage was done.
The blocked port (for (almost) full flow filtration) has caught a couple of people out at least. Dare say you won't be the last.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 07:40 AM   #124
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc Cruzer, I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to clarify. You had the plug installed as per the 95% modification but you did not have the filter plumbed in? Or, did you have the filter plumbed in stock wise, returning the oil to the pan? Maybe this was covered, but with 7 pages of posts and my having the attention span of a parakeet, I missed it.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 09:23 AM   #125
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by 36tbird View Post
Merc Cruzer, I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I just want to clarify. You had the plug installed as per the 95% modification but you did not have the filter plumbed in? Or, did you have the filter plumbed in stock wise, returning the oil to the pan? Maybe this was covered, but with 7 pages of posts and my having the attention span of a parakeet, I missed it.
Hi "36", just to clear it all up, you must remove the "plug" IF you do not have a filter in the system. The plug, when it is in place, stops the oil from reaching the main galley and the rear main gets oil only!

When you use a filter in the line you need to have the plug in position in order to direct the oil to the filter on one side, in other words, the oil pressure "hits" the plug is "forced" to pass through the filter, after the oil passes through the filter it returns to the opposite side of the plug and continues on to the main passageways!

I've only done the modification to 2 blocks as of today, one is still be built and the other has been in the Merc for a few months now! Works flawlessly so far!

(Add) You must maintain the integrity of the oiling system by keeping all the passageways equal in size, not good to "step" down any orifices!!

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. The one that has been running with this modification, runs with 35# pressure hot, idling, and 55#/60# hot "cruising"! This is with the standard "M-19" pump, no mod's to the pump, also with .003" clearance on the mains and .002" on the rods! This is a 4.250" Eagle crank/Scat rod, 292" stroker! Also has NO temp issues!
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 10:30 AM   #126
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Hi Gosfast, thanks. I understand how it all works because like you I have modified blocks, 4 so far with two of them for the full filter system that requires the plumbing run on the outside of the block inside of the flywheel. (I posted pics earlier in this thread of a modified block with the spin on oil filter conversion I am making for them.) I am currently running my 8BA with the full filtration and mine has about the same numbers as yours except the hot idle drops to 10 to 15. That is probably due to the 1/16" hole I drilled in the oil tube plug behind the cam gear for a little extra oil directed to the timing gears as per Mike Davidson's flathead book.

So, like you, I understand the system, I was questioning exactly what set up Merc Cruzer had when he discovered the problem. Did he have not have a filter on it or if he did, was it plumbed like stock routing the oil back to the pan? Sorry for any confusion.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 10:41 AM   #127
Gumpy
Senior Member
 
Gumpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: petaluma, california
Posts: 1,418
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

MC==glad you will be back on the road soon and are able to repair it...have fun with ur car...i had one of those in 1980...alot of fun!!
Gumpy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 02:41 PM   #128
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

36bird and gofast:

The block was drilled for the 95% filter since it was out of the car for the rebuild (for use at a later date), but then plugged to use the standard configuration. Unfortunately the plug used to block the line when the 95% filter is in place was left in....thereby causing the oil starvation to the front and middle bearings. The interesting thing was that only the middle bearing seized, for some reason the front bearing was getting enough oil to remain functional.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 04:47 PM   #129
GOSFAST
Senior Member
 
GOSFAST's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 834
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merc Cruzer View Post
36bird and gofast:

The block was drilled for the 95% filter since it was out of the car for the rebuild (for use at a later date), but then plugged to use the standard configuration. Unfortunately the plug used to block the line when the 95% filter is in place was left in....thereby causing the oil starvation to the front and middle bearings. The interesting thing was that only the middle bearing seized, for some reason the front bearing was getting enough oil to remain functional.
Hi "Merc", the center main is directly supporting 4 cylinders in the firing order, number's 2 & 3 and 6 & 7, the front main supports mostly the two front cylinders and partially the numbers 2 and 6. This causes more "loading" on the center main brg.

Not certain if you noticed also that the "Flattie" crank has an incorporated design from the early years that has now carried over to the "racing" BB Chev's!

The center main on the 3-main setup has "full" counterweights just like many of the aftermarket BB's now use! This keeps the shaft from "flexing" during normal use! Also aids in balancing the ass'y! Old "Henry" realized these counterweights were a necessity to "keep it all together"?

A few years back, around 1999, we did a circle-track Flathead that saw continous 4800 RPM runs, so we fabricated a "girdle" that "rested" on top of that center main and straddled it and tied the pan rails together along the outer edges to support the weak section of the "webbing" and the threads in the center of the casting. Engine still runs strong after some 11 or 12 years! A good friend of mine was running it on the stock car circuit up here in the Northeast!

(Add) I would like to add this also, if you are not running the stock fuel-pump pushrod you must at least block off that section of the block where the bushing is located! There will be a small internal leak at that area affecting the overall oil pressure! (See the photo below)

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck with your repair, should go fine now! Just look at all the knowledge you and the others gained up here, priceless, really.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Flathead Pushrod Block-Off.jpg (77.6 KB, 144 views)

Last edited by GOSFAST; 06-10-2011 at 05:01 PM.
GOSFAST is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 05:16 PM   #130
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc, I get it, the plug was in and you did not know it. But, what I am asking is, did you have the oil filter on the engine when it seized? If you did, was it set up for the stock configuration? That is, did the oil come up from the pump and go to the filter only to be returned to the pan while all the other oil could not go into the system because of the plug? None of this matters so long as you have it figured out and fixed. I'm just curious of the configuration you had when the failure arose. I see in your avatar a stock canister filter on your engine so I am just assuming (but seeking verification) that you tried to run your modified oil system engine with the plug in going thru the stock oil filter set up. After this I am out of ideas on how to ask this question.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 05:37 PM   #131
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,364
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOSFAST View Post
Hi "Merc", the center main is directly supporting 4 cylinders in the firing order, number's 2 & 3 and 6 & 7, the front main supports mostly the two front cylinders and partially the numbers 2 and 6. This causes more "loading" on the center main brg.

Not certain if you noticed also that the "Flattie" crank has an incorporated design from the early years that has now carried over to the "racing" BB Chev's!

The center main on the 3-main setup has "full" counterweights just like many of the aftermarket BB's now use! This keeps the shaft from "flexing" during normal use! Also aids in balancing the ass'y! Old "Henry" realized these counterweights were a necessity to "keep it all together"?

A few years back, around 1999, we did a circle-track Flathead that saw continous 4800 RPM runs, so we fabricated a "girdle" that "rested" on top of that center main and straddled it and tied the pan rails together along the outer edges to support the weak section of the "webbing" and the threads in the center of the casting. Engine still runs strong after some 11 or 12 years! A good friend of mine was running it on the stock car circuit up here in the Northeast!

(Add) I would like to add this also, if you are not running the stock fuel-pump pushrod you must at least block off that section of the block where the bushing is located! There will be a small internal leak at that area affecting the overall oil pressure! (See the photo below)

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Good luck with your repair, should go fine now! Just look at all the knowledge you and the others gained up here, priceless, really.
You will have pretty much the same oil flow out of that hole whether the pushrod is in or not, since the pushrod is not a tight fit. Doubt you would be able to measure any difference in pressure with or without the rod in. With the rod out, you'll get a lot more oil flying around in the valve chember though.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 09:48 PM   #132
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The 95% full flow conversion seems to have been "invented" a few times, but the original design by the Ford engineers was well tested by at least five armies on our side, and if the slight decrease in diameter of the Ford fitting from the block oil port size caused a problem, it would have been simple for Ford to increase all the drilled oil passages in the block at any time in the more than ten years it was in use. Using the thimble type fitting pretty much solves any surprises, maybe years down the line, by a grub screw hiding. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #133
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

36bird:

If you did, was it set up for the stock configuration? That is, did the oil come up from the pump and go to the filter only to be returned to the pan while all the other oil could not go into the system because of the plug?

The answer is Yes and Yes

I see in your avatar a stock canister filter on your engine so I am just assuming (but seeking verification) that you tried to run your modified oil system engine with the plug in going thru the stock oil filter set up

Actually, I was running the fully original stock system, where the oil comes up from the pump to the stock filter and then is returned back to the oil pan. This system allows the oil that is not going to the filter to go through the opening in the block to the tube that feeds the front and center bearing along with the cam etc. The problem was that since the block was drilled for the 95% filter system that required a plug in the opening in the block to the tube that feeds the front and center bearing along with the cam etc. and the new hole drilled to allow for the return line of the 95% filter.
The pictures show the engine when I did a partial assembly and before I replaced the oil lines with new steel lines. You can also see the hole in the block that was not yet plugged (part of the modification to the block for the 95% filter system) and if you can imagine a plug in the oil passage way in the block from the feed line to the filter and the unplugged hole then you have the configuration when the engine seized.

The bottom line is that none of the system for the 95% filter was being used at the time of the engine failure....only the origional filter system was in use, but with a plug in the passage way (that should not have been there) to feed the cam and bearings.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SSCN0431.JPG (52.4 KB, 187 views)
File Type: jpg SSCN0432.JPG (52.4 KB, 167 views)
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2011, 10:35 PM   #134
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

GOESFAST:

I am using the original fuel pump with an electric back up...
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 10:34 AM   #135
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

36bird:

Had some time this morning so I thought I might do a partial assembly of the engine to show you the oil filter configuration at the time of the seizure. I have laid the grub screw on top of the block above the passageway of the blocked line....hope this explains the issue.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0434.JPG (124.2 KB, 268 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0435.jpg (37.8 KB, 250 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0436.jpg (45.9 KB, 250 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0437.jpg (45.2 KB, 250 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0438.jpg (40.2 KB, 234 views)
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2011, 10:19 PM   #136
42ford
Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I have followed these post from the beginning and I have a couple of questions.
I have what is referred to as a Canadian block. It has three threaded holes on the bell.
The two on the left ( one vertical and one horizontal) have my oil press sender and the oil line to the old style filter. The other one has a pipe plug in it. It seems to work OK.
My question is why did Ford use a grub plug in the first place? On my block what was the other hole for? This block was NOS when I got it. Nobody drilled anything
Thanks
Dick
42ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 08:46 AM   #137
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,364
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ford did not use a grub screw. Barlea described the fitting that is used on the Canadian blocks back in post #54.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2011, 10:18 AM   #138
36tbird
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: nw SanAntonio, TX
Posts: 940
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Thanks Merc. Now, please put a 2X4 vertical support under the the front of that engine. I know that the 8BA's are not as susceptible to breaking, but they are still heavy old motors.
36tbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:14 PM   #139
tinmann
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Northern B.C., Canada
Posts: 12
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

A lot of valuable information has been shared in this thread. Thank you one and all.
__________________
You can touch the coupe, just don't fondle the chicken.
tinmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 03:37 PM   #140
Carbroke
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western WA.
Posts: 86
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.
Carbroke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:02 PM   #141
usered
Senior Member
 
usered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 231
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I had he same problem as couple of the other guys mentioned. The starter jammed into the flywheel and locked the motor up. I thought the same thing as you, the motor had seized. Just unbolted the starter and pulled it out a little and it released. For some reason I don't know why it happen a couple of times and then stoped.

Does anyone out there know why this hppens?
usered is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:20 PM   #142
El Rat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 260
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.
El Rat is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-04-2013, 04:29 PM   #143
1937pickup
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 586
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I now know why I don't run a filter in May.
1937pickup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 04:41 PM   #144
bluardun
Senior Member
 
bluardun's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Tucson, Az.
Posts: 293
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck
bluardun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 05:09 PM   #145
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,493
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Check the date, guys, this problem was diagnosed and fixed over a year ago!

Ran without a filter after the plug fitted for 95% filtration.

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:08 PM   #146
rgtharley
Senior Member
 
rgtharley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: New Windsor, MD
Posts: 127
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob
rgtharley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 06:27 PM   #147
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 6,807
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 07:46 PM   #148
Step-down
Senior Member
 
Step-down's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hat City
Posts: 508
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I stopped using silicone caulking on my gaskets on my Harley motors years ago just for that reason... It clogged a oil port ...good by stroker motor......
__________________
"I can't cry as long as I know the Lord has risen "
Step-down is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2013, 10:34 PM   #149
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 2,836
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

EVERYONE, look at the date of the posts. This is an old June 2011 thread. Start at the beginning and you'll get the whole story.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 01:07 AM   #150
8CM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 25
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Ford one has it right
8CM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 06:12 AM   #151
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I remember this post well but don't recall a final report from Merc Cruzer saying that he got this engine repaired and back on the road.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 01-05-2013 at 03:16 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 09:07 AM   #152
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 4,351
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbroke View Post
How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Rat View Post
Sounds like ring gap, or lack of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1937pickup View Post
I now know why I don't run a filter in May.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluardun View Post
Let me take a guess too.
Try and turn the engine backwards. If it's a standard shift, put it in 2nd and push the car backwards.
Maybe with a little luck, you have a nut, or something that was dropped into the engine while assembling.
Let us know what you find.
best of luck
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgtharley View Post
Piston ring end clearance could be the culprit too. Like JM asks, I too wonder what the piston to bore clearance is, and whether the ring end gap may be too tight. The rule of thumb is .004 per inch of bore. I have witnessed freshly rebuilt engines come to an abrupt halt too, as soon as they get up to temperature.
Good luck finding out what it is, and let us know what you find as you disassemble.
Bob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ol' Ron View Post
This is the biggest fear we builders have. We try to check everything but every once in a while you miss something. The 294 won't be run until late February, and I wonder if I forgot anything. Last year a carb screw came loose and broke a piston in a test engine. Instant bang, but we keep going. Hope it's something simple, take care.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CM View Post
Ford one has it right
The reason for the engine seizier was determined and corrected about a year and a half ago. Guy's-- Wake-up!
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:33 AM   #153
Merc Cruzer
Senior Member
 
Merc Cruzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

JM35 Sedan:

As it turns out, I had drilled the passage to put in a full flow oil filter system and then forgot to put a plug in it since I did not use the system. Failed to put that on my check list during assembly. Bottom line I was not getting oil to the rod bearings. When the symptoms started I did shut the motor off and towed the car home (two blocks) and then pulled the pan. That resulted in pulling the engine out again and tearing it down again. The bottom line is the bearings did exactly what they were supposed to do, (not my first engine but it was my first flathead) only damage was to the bearings. I had the crank polished and re-cleaned the block. New set of bearings and I was good to go. It has been great and has all the power it should after a full rebuild...oil pressure 60 lbs. If this post is still helping after over a year then it was well worth the learning experience for me. The bottom two pictures were taken with the engine still in the car.

To my 53' Merc, I say...thanks for the education (which will never end), all in all the tuition was very reasonable....and my love of driving it will only end when I do.

Originally Posted by Carbroke
How can you bore it .60 over and reuse the original pistons? Supposed to buy over-sized pistons to match.

Not sure why it siezed, because you haven't said what actually siezed yet. But I know you need to put bigger pistons back in.

In my case I used a new block and had it bored to match the 60 over pistons from the old block.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0434.JPG (124.2 KB, 90 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0261.jpg (37.4 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0268.jpg (37.3 KB, 79 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN0270.jpg (38.2 KB, 87 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6630.jpg (82.5 KB, 94 views)
File Type: jpg DSCN6631.jpg (75.7 KB, 85 views)

Last edited by Merc Cruzer; 01-05-2013 at 11:25 AM.
Merc Cruzer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 10:42 AM   #154
Planojc
Senior Member
 
Planojc's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 534
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

I second that. Put it in second or third gear and rock the car.
Planojc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 12:44 PM   #155
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,687
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Merc Cruzer, thanks for the followup. I'm glad to hear that all ended well and you are enjoying the ride. Reading your original post may have prevented me from doing the same thing with a freshly built 59 series 284 cid engine. I did the 95% FF system and was planning to plug off those rear ports for initial start up.

Last edited by JM 35 Sedan; 01-05-2013 at 02:25 PM.
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 02:31 PM   #156
Jim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alto, Tx.
Posts: 296
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim
Jim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2013, 03:13 PM   #157
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 4,351
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
While I understand almost all that has been said in this thread except the part about the plug or connection that has a 1/16 hole drilled in it, where does this plug or connection go? Thanks Jim
This is where the oil restrictor hole is on a stock filter setup.

__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 02:26 AM   #158
Bluebell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 720
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

This has been a very good thread.
I will add a half a picture of the fitting used by the Canadians that acted to block the other way while it was being used, and allow normal flow internally through the block when no external fittings (cooler, filter etc) was not connected. This is the one Barlea referred to.
I will show also a picture of the circuit diagram showing a cooler, a bypass valve, and a filter, from a Canadian Ford (Bren)Carrier.

One confusing aspect of this thread is about the two types of filtering systems used on these fords.
The original canister type is a bypass system that bleeds off about 5 to 10 percent of the oil, to filter it, and return it directly to the sump.
These filter elements were a very fine filtering media that removed very fine particles. They had a large surface area, and the oil supply to then was limited by the restrictor. They could stay in service for a long time. The rest of the oil being used to lube the engine before its return to the sump.

The full flow systems (95 or 100 percent.-two variations) used a modern type filter where all the pumped oil is sent through the filter, then goes on to lube the engine before returning to the pump. The variation between the two full flow systems is this.
In the 95% system the oil going to the rear main is not filtered before it goes there. In the 100% system it is.
The 100% system requires much modification. The 95% system requires very little, and what you need to keep in mind is that it(the oil) is already pretty clean as there is a 95% chance it went through the filter before it was picked up by the pump, this time around.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 9085748094_75b99fe6a4_z.jpg (33.2 KB, 85 views)
File Type: jpg cooler plumbing.jpg (44.9 KB, 101 views)
Bluebell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 09:10 AM   #159
G.M.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida and Penna.
Posts: 4,156
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack E/NJ View Post
Now Lou. Doncha know a lotta us old geezers have forgotten about the age-old suggestion of simply changing oil every few thousand miles might actually be enough to keep an old flathead from havin' a stroke or seizure? So due to our fading memory we're more or less forced to get anal about dressing up and sometimes plugging up our beloved flatties with fancy plumbing and chrome-plated filters. Geez, I thought all old geezers knew that! 8^)

Jack E/NJ
Jack I have been wondering the same thing if all this foolishness is worth it. I have a bunch of old Fords, some with no filters and some with the old original Ford filters and never had bearing problems. I used good oil and change it once in a while. My 39 convertible with a new Dennis carpenter WW2 engine I installed 32 years ago with the Ford bypass filter that I opened the restrictor hole some has 120,000 miles on it and doesn't burn any noticeable oil, is quiet and runs smooth. Has thousands of 65 MPH 10 or 12 hour driving days and is clean inside. I find that when the engine ran up in the 200 degree range for a number of years the oil got black in a few days and used some oil. After getting the engine cooled with Skips pumps and a pressure cap it ran in the 165 range and stopped using oil. The oil also stays a slightly dark yellow. Still has over 15 lbs pressure at idle and 45 plus at driving speeds. Sounds like these modern filters on an old engine may cause more problems than the good they can do. I also wonder if oil starvation at start ups could be a problem. I know the benefit of filtration but on these engines is it worth it. G.M.
__________________
www.fordcollector.com
G.M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 03:24 PM   #160
Barlea
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: West Central Alberta
Posts: 441
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

The Ford Canada full-flow system was tested in quite a few locations including the North African desert, Sicily, Italy, France, Holland and Germany for about five years in the 40s before it was offered as an option on civilian cars and trucks until '51. Some of the testing was probably under even more severe conditions than us codgers can dish out to the flathead. Never heard of a problem caused by the filtration system so it could very well be worth it. ..B.
Barlea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 07:21 PM   #161
Bluebell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Tauranga, New Zealand
Posts: 720
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Barlea, I have a book which has a war time report in it. It stated the life of the Ford v8 motor was only 2 to 3 thousand miles.(in carriers) probably not much better in trucks. I suspect it was due to the crankcase breathing as much as the air filter. The germans liked our air filters better than their own.
Bluebell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2013, 07:49 PM   #162
mfrk
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 194
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Richard Crow Had that happen to me on a 32 five window tried popping clutch & just fried the tires someone suggested to back it up & pop the clutch yup the starter was the culprit
mfrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 08-29-2013, 02:57 AM   #163
Lawson Cox
Senior Member
 
Lawson Cox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia
Posts: 5,050
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Wow, what long, but very educational, thread this has been. Thanks to everone who contributed.
__________________
Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes.

It is better to be seen, than viewed.


"We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm".
Lawson Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-29-2013, 06:37 AM   #164
Marv
Senior Member
 
Marv's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 875
Default Re: Engine seized 2 miles after rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluebell View Post
Barlea, I have a book which has a war time report in it. It stated the life of the Ford v8 motor was only 2 to 3 thousand miles.(in carriers) probably not much better in trucks. I suspect it was due to the crankcase breathing as much as the air filter. The germans liked our air filters better than their own.
The 2000 to 3000 miles is correct. My father bought a brand new 46 Ford F-6 dump truck and hauled coal out of the pit and all dirt roads at that time and after Ford replaced the second engine they installed a oilbath air filter and that solved the problem. I think it already had the oil filter.
Marv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:47 AM.