A-V8 Roadster

[Deuce Man]

Flat Jack: I used a ford truck four speed bellhousing and a wilcap adapter Pretty much like adapting a t-5 trans to a flathead, only this trans started out in a ford.

[flatjack9]

Are you using a 59A block or an 8BA block?

[Deuce Man]

This is a 59-a block By the way the wilcap guys were a pleasure to work with!

[flatjack9]

Guess I'll have to contact them because they don't show that adapter on their website. Thanks for the info.

[Deuce Man]

They have cad files on a lot of adapters they dont show in their catalog. this adapter was amazingly complete! came with bolts, washers sleeve for throwout bearing and pilot bearing.

[Deuce Man]

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Chassis coming along. Got most of boxing plates welded in and welds cleaned up. Working on rear wishbone mounts and center crossmember engine mount. I was originally going to make this piece a bolt-in for easier transmission removal, but I decided it's going to be a weld-in job. I've owned a lot of '32's over the years. I am used to pulling engines to work on transmissions.

Thinking about some sort of outrigger to secure the front wishbone ball. Have a pretty good idea, but will have to wait till next week - turkey season opens in Georgia this weekend. Rumor has it they're so thick you trip over them out in the woods!

[Grandadeo]

Rich, they just had a picture in the local mullet wraper of wild turkeys out in Palm City. A lot closer than GA. The chassis is looking good.

[Deuce Man]

Got my x-member pretty much finished. '39 pedals worked quite well. Master cylinder seems to have decent room with the original A cross-member in place. Adapting the F-1 steering box is next on the list. Having an old cowl is really a blessing when you don't have the body yet. Helps you to locate steering, pedals etc. At least you know it's going to work when you find the body you want. Having fun doing this. It's a little different than the two cross member setup in Tardel's roadster. But this layout makes the most sense to me. I think if Henry were alive today he might like it too. So far it's all Ford including that modern transmission and the shift lever seems to come up very close to where it should be. I saw one of those T-five's in a model A. The shift lever was so far back they had to notch out the original model A center cross member.

[Marvin/TN]

Dagels makes and sells an X member for a model A. I don't think it's too expensive.

[Deuce Man]

Thanks Marvin: I just like making stuff myself I was tickled that I could leave the original crossmember and just make it better! Best part, I have about fifty dollars in the steel, boxing plates, channel and all!

[Deuce Man]

It's finally up on wheels a lot of work! Boxed frame, my own x member, 39 pedals, f1 steering with a model a snout grafted on, 40 column and wheel. Had to graft on a piece of 34 steering shaft to get from splines to a keyed taper. Did my own springs,front and back. Reversed the arches in both main leaves with my arbor press. Ground and tapered all ends, very soft, might have to add a couple of leaves to the front. Should ride nice. Brake plumbing, exhaust next, then paint and hopefully final assembly.These are mostly junkyard and swapmeet parts. Its a lot of labor, but a good lesson on how they did it in the early years.Driving it should complete the experience. Bought a rolling semi complete 29 roadster in minnesota. Driving up to the farm in N,D. next week will pick it up and trailer it home. Hope it is half as good as the pictures. Hope my new avatar picture doesnt offend anyone. I dont know who the girls are, just took their picture with my flathead powered tubster at a show at Don Garlits museum a couple of years ago.

[Mart]

Hi Deuceman.

Nice'n'simple A frame there. Like what you did with the X-member, big fan of 'em myself.

Interesting to see the 4 speed overdrive truck box too, I have one slated for my current project.

Nobody has mentioned your rear suspension - probably being polite. I am a bit concerned about it. As the car leans in a bend, the radius arms will work away at the rear attachment, and could cause a fatigue failure. Also they are not intended to work in a bending moment, only tsnsion and compression, and then only to back up a stout Torque Tube.

You probably already know this, if so, good, but you NEED to triangulate the radius rods to better resist the twisting of the axle under power, but what you SHOULD also do is bring the radius rods together to a single point (like the front ones come together in the wishbone) so they work with rather than fighting against each other.

Enjoying the build, hope you view my reply as constructive criticism and not just knocking your work.

Mart.

[rotorwrench]

The rear wishbone set up with a strong torque arm works with no worries and allows the rear axle to move as Ford intended it to that's for sure. A person just has to visualize the rear axle pushing the car forward and twisting laterally around the drive shaft axis to get the picture about where the forces from it make contact with the frame. The rear axle also tries to torque itself around the drive axle axis at the same time, making that torque tube or arm an essential part of the mix. Some elements can be successfully combined, as the original torque tube was, but they have to be heavy duty if they are.

Kerby

[Deuce Man]

Guys: I appreciate what you are saying, similar concept to what everyone thought years back when four bar front ends became the vogue.Now everyone is going back to split bones or hairpins. I was building a traditional flatty powered 32 back in the eighties when all this four bar stuff came up, my car had split bones. I jacked the front up and disconnected the spring shackles. I was able to rotate the axle way beyond any travel distance you would ever experience in driving, No axle twist or bind, felt safe after that. Drove the wheels off that car,looked at the welds and wishbones pretty regularly no problems. My 32 tubster has a ford 8 inch rear hung on 36 wishbones with a 36 rear spring, attached pretty much the same up front as this A, 20,ooo miles looks great. Then again my 50 merc motor is lucky to put out 150 hp on a good day. If it had a hot modern v8 that would be a completely different story. Then again it wouldnt be too hard to add two triangulated links from the top of the banjo bolts over to the side rails. Cant wait to drive the rts four speed Its light as a feather the stick comes up in almost the right spot welded on an early ford stick this am ,just have to find a tower cap that looks more like an early ford. Too bad they only made these a few years.

[FL&WVMIKE]

DEUCE MAN .............................
Those gals in your avitar sure do look familiar. Now, where have I seen them before ? Oh yea, at the Billet-Proff show, over at Don Garlit's place.
MIKE
CLICK ON PHOTO TO ENLARGE - Twice

[rotorwrench]

Originally Posted by Deuce Man

Guys: I appreciate what you are saying, similar concept to what everyone thought years back when four bar front ends became the vogue.Now everyone is going back to split bones or hairpins. I was building a traditional flatty powered 32 back in the eighties when all this four bar stuff came up, my car had split bones. I jacked the front up and disconnected the spring shackles. I was able to rotate the axle way beyond any travel distance you would ever experience in driving, No axle twist or bind, felt safe after that. Drove the wheels off that car,looked at the welds and wishbones pretty regularly no problems. My 32 tubster has a ford 8 inch rear hung on 36 wishbones with a 36 rear spring, attached pretty much the same up front as this A, 20,ooo miles looks great. Then again my 50 merc motor is lucky to put out 150 hp on a good day. If it had a hot modern v8 that would be a completely different story. Then again it wouldnt be too hard to add two triangulated links from the top of the banjo bolts over to the side rails. Cant wait to drive the rts four speed Its light as a feather the stick comes up in almost the right spot welded on an early ford stick this am ,just have to find a tower cap that looks more like an early ford. Too bad they only made these a few years.

The front axle has only the road friction and suspension duty to perform. The rear axle has all that and a but load of torque acting on it, even with a little flat motor. The 35/36 rear bones were heavy duty as Ford made and attached closer to the middle of the rear axle than the later 37 on stuff did. What you have there is going to put a hell of a load on the rear spring & shackles plus those little radius rods. I wouldn't worry about a panhard bar as much as a torque arm from the center section up to the crossmember where your rear bones are hooking up now. Why settle for less when you can have it all? I consider the set up the Hot Rod Works sells to be a minimum set up for an open drive banjo. You have nearly 2/3 of it already there.

Granted, opinions are like ar$$ holes and every one has one so take it or leave it, but I'm not the only one out there that questions these things.

Kerby

[Deuce Man]

In one of my previous posts I wasnt referring to a panhar bar.I was thinking about two bars going from the center of the differential out and foward to the frame rails. I have this in the triangulated four link setup in my 32 five window. that car rides and handles like a sports car. The trangulated double bars would give much more lateral control than one tie rod type bar going foward like the hotrodworks type bar. At least that was what I was thinking.

[Mart]

Deuce, We are only concerned for your safety. You can get away with split bones on a front beam axle because the axle will twist. No problem.
People use 36 bones on the back, but they are much stronger than the ones you have there.
Triangulated bars from the banjo out to the frame rails are not what you want.

As a bare minimim you should run braces from high up on the banjo down to the existing radius rods, near the front.

Better still would be to join everything up to a single point, with a single pivot.

But at least you have the radius rods running close together. That is much better than parallel to the side rails.

So as a bare minimum, just run two bars from high on the banjo, each side of the driveshaft to the existing radius rods, near the front. You dont need bushes or fancy clevises or anything, in fact you could weld them at the front and bolt them solidly at the banjo.

This would strengthen the existing bars considerably, and would probably be ok if the motor is not too powerful, the car not too heavy, and the expected mileage relatively modest.

Don't forget this site is predominantly a restorer's and tinkerers site(no disrespect intended), input from Rodders may be a bit sparce.

All the best,

Mart.

[dsiddons]

Originally Posted by Deuce Man

It's finally up on wheels a lot of work! Boxed frame, my own x member, 39 pedals, f1 steering with a model a snout grafted on, 40 column and wheel. Had to graft on a piece of 34 steering shaft to get from splines to a keyed taper. Did my own springs,front and back. Reversed the arches in both main leaves with my arbor press. Ground and tapered all ends, very soft, might have to add a couple of leaves to the front. Should ride nice. Brake plumbing, exhaust next, then paint and hopefully final assembly.These are mostly junkyard and swapmeet parts. Its a lot of labor, but a good lesson on how they did it in the early years.Driving it should complete the experience. Bought a rolling semi complete 29 roadster in minnesota. Driving up to the farm in N,D. next week will pick it up and trailer it home. Hope it is half as good as the pictures. Hope my new avatar picture doesnt offend anyone. I dont know who the girls are, just took their picture with my flathead powered tubster at a show at Don Garlits museum a couple of years ago.

Maybe you should write a book! Damn nice job...

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Chris

Heres my AV8 although mine is a little different. I used a F-1 center crossmember to locate the transmission and pedals. The rear end is a 40 vintage I cut the torque tub and drive shaft down and used 46-48 short arms on. I also cut some Model A rear spring hangers off some jubk tubes and bolted/welded them on the 40 rear to hang the T rear spring.

Chris:

Did you dearch that spring? Curious how you got it sitting so flat/low without reversing the eye or z-ing the rear of the frame.

Thanks.

Tim