Batteries...batteries...batteries

[al's28/33]

Barners,

I've been researching past threads on the OPTIMA battery, general battery life, charging batteries and use of "The Battery Tender".

Here's my plight.......6 volt + ground system single bulb headlights and powerhouse generator. Daytime driving only, Sunday driver!

Every 3 years or so I have a dead battery and go thru pains to recharge it then keep dealing with constant dead battery issues.

If I get a new NAPA or Interstate battery and just keep the battery tender on it one or two days a month, is that going to give me longer battery life ???????

*******OR*******

Is the OPTIMA a longer lasting battery for the Sunday driver "A" or for those of you who drive your "A" 10,000 miles a year....and do those need to be hooked up to a battery tender every once in a while or not ?? Can't seem to find that detail in old threads.

I read that OPTIMAs last quite a long time.

Now I have an early V8 '33 pickup too, also all 6 volt but I think it's a Group 2 since the measurements are a bit bigger.....will the OPTIMA work on the pickup too ????

thanks for your feedback and opinions!!
Al

[Joe K]

If I get a new NAPA or Interstate battery and just keep the battery tender on it one or two days a month, is that going to give me longer battery life ???????

Probably. I have until recently kept my Model A Air Compressor Battery (see Avatar) on a 2 amp charger - which I have rigged to a timer to go on 10 minutes a day. Recently (last fall) I moved the Air compressor and have not plugged it in. That battery must be 10 years old and it would (at the time I moved the compressor) still turn over the starter. I'm assuming it would run the ignition. (although I didn't try it.)

When done in this manner one must remember to every 6 months or so to top off the water/acid in the battery with distilled water. This because as the battery becomes fully charged, it starts to boil off the energy applied by disassociating the water into hydrogen and oxygen - this is normal for fully charged batteries.

Still, I guess you could say it is still going...

I read that OPTIMAs last quite a long time.

As to the Optimus battery, I hear good things about them. Power to weight ratio is quite high and they're quite forgiving similar to other AGM type batteries.

I don't like AGM batteries though because they're difficult to diagnose - and don't follow in the usual battery symptoms when they freeze or in their end of charge: an AGM battery has a higher voltage/amperage curve than a cell battery - but when it drops off at end of charge - it DROPS OFF quickly. And may reach a point quickly where it can't be recovered easily.

Shortly I will be buying an Optimus battery to replace a stock AGM battery in my wife's Prius (starting battery) But most who have done this don't regret the decision - or the savings of greater than half over letting Toyota do the same thing for a lesser quality dealer stock battery.

To batteries generally - if you're having to replace your battery in the Model A on a 3 year cycle, I would not expect that to change by substitution of an Optimus battery.

SOMETHING is pulling down that 3 year battery in the meanwhile and shortening it's life. Either in the way you use it (you don't say if you have a voltage regulator or periodically charge it while sitting - or if you've had some 'dead battery' issues as you have gone along - cycling a battery near end of charge can considerably shorten it's life.) or in the way you maintain it. (Do you check the level with a hydrometer as you go along?) If not a voltage regulator do you try to balance generator output to car useage?

All these can affect battery life.

Hope this helps.

Joe K

[Tom Wesenberg]

Joe and 1930 Coupe have covered it well. You need to buy a good voltmeter and hydrometer to monitor your battery and set the adjustable brush to match your driving. If your engine fires right off (as it should) and you drive for at least 30 minutes between starts, then setting the adjustable brush for 2 amps should work fine.

If you have to crank for 30 seconds before it starts, then only drive for 15 minutes and shut it off, then you probably would be better with an 8 amp charge.

By far the easiest and best solution to long battery life is to install a voltage regulator. I've got at least 10 years on my junk yard battery and have only checked the water 3 times, and only added a few ounces about 4 years ago.

Letting a battery set with a low charge will greatly shorten it's life. People don't want to spend money for a voltage regulator, but will spend money replacing the battery ever few years. I don't get it.

[al's28/33]

Tom is installing his EVR on a 5 brush powerhouse for me right now. My problem is I don't drive my "A" much and when I do it's maybe an hour every other week. Just a couple weeks ago, I had a dead battery, the engine cranks but not enough OOMPH! so I put on the battery tender, but then again I'm not in the garage long enough to stand over the charger while it's plugged in so I probably killed the battery by attempting to charge it.

Rather than figit with trying to charge a weak battery I researched the old threads about the OPTIMA and found lots of good things but then wonder what other issues might I have ????

Regarding a cheaper battery, I never thought of routine trickle charging once or twice a month as normal upkeep.....maybe that's what I never thought of doing that should be part of normal maintenance.

Tom, how often do you charge up your 10 year old battery ?? Joe and 1930Coupe I appreciate your input!!! thank you.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Actually I don't treat my battery as well as I should. I park my car at the end of October and don't touch it until April or whenever the salt has been washed off the roads. Last year that wasn't until May. Yesterday I decided to put my 4 amp charger on the battery for a few hours because this is such a long cold winter. I really should put the charger on the battery for an hour each month if I was to treat the battery the way it should be cared for.

When you get your powerhouse back with an EVR you should have much longer battery life, even if you don't drive much.

[QGolden]

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I get 8 to 10 years out of Motorcycle Batteries, they are notorious for only lasting 3 or 4 years. I can get 10 years out of a battery in my Plow Truck as well. I do this by deep discharge and slow recharge during the periods of unuse. <Is that a word?>. Any way, during the off season a couple of times, I turn on my lights and allow them to drain the battery, then bring it back up on a two amp charger. After it is mostly charged I transfer it to an electronic maintainer which cycles the battery. I leave it on the electronic charger for a week or two, take it off, then a month or two later, repeat the process. My electronic charger will error out if I put it on the totally drained battery, so I start with an old style direct charger. I consistently get over a decade out a battery this way.

[Ron Lachniet]

I recently added a cutout switch under my front seat so I can totally isolate the battery when I am not running the car for a period of time. Also, if you charge your battery from a head nut and your starter bolt it is very easy to give it a little charge once in a while.

[zzlegend]

Just a point of information. I went to Cosco last week to check out a new optima battery. The salesman says " we don't carry them any more". To many had to be warrantied and they just did not last like they use to. He said some thing got changed in their internal make up or? So I called my buddy who owns an automotive repair and he said he dropped them to. Same problem. To many came back. Don't know what happened but I guess I am thru with optima's. Just my 2 cents.

[Joe K]

When I worked at the farm splitting John Deere tractors, we had more than one battery fail in the field. The tractors were notorious for sucking a battery down while sitting in the field and unattended - usually with the cab light on and the radio running.

Batteries would come to me flat. Dead. Like in "he's dead, Jim."

The farmer (owner) advocated using the small charger - probably 1 amp. And leave them like that for a week. Then try the load test. Meanwhile taking hydrometer reading and topping off the electrolyte. Most of these survived and became functional batteries - at least until the following winter when the cycle might begin again.

Once we had one which didn't seem to take a charge. Farmer says "roll it." Kicking it with his foot, he flipped it totally over one side at a time until the top terminals were back on top. Then he says "try it again."

Derned if it didn't take a charge. Probably a shorted plate? Or gunk in the bottom?

But once a battery freezes (usually from low charge) that's it - its done.

I liked working at the farm. When I'm laid off from engineering, I might be back there. I could think of worse places to work.

Joe K

[Kurt in NJ]

The last battery I bought was an Optima, it lasted me 16 years, I never charged it other than for driving except 1 time I had the charger on it for 5 min, I had forgotten to turn off the ign, it was totally dead, I was late for a show, after 5 min I hand cranked, 30 min of driving and the battery was up enough to start the car, it went 10 more years after that

My car can sit for months and I expect it to start ---the only batterys I got short life from was the original script type, those 3 years is a lot, other regular batterys have lasted 7-9 years for me ---my secret--neglect, I don't charge during storage, no battery tender, i do keep a rather high charge rate setting with the 3rd brush, about 14 amps, this gives me a 1 amp + about with the headlights on(halogen), I regulate battery charge by the "seat of the pants" method by turning the headlights on in daylight

during winter I keep the battery cold, a cold battery self discharges less --as long it is more than 3/4 charged it has to be very cold to freeze --much colder than it gets here

When I said the last battery I bought was over 16 years ago I meant for any car I am driving, i get my batterys off the "junk" pile, for the regular cars it is easy, for the model A I have a 12v battery cut in 1/2 in it now

[leo]

Is there a new generation of batteries being sold now? I keep hearing a commercial for Interstate (I think) saying their batteries will now last much longer than before.....

[takomaned]

Hi Al. When I got my 31 S/W the battery was beyond usable. I checked out both types (wet cell and spiral cell). I found that the Optima had more cold cranking amps and had a better warranty than the Interstate. Google search found the best price and I paid $109, before a discount coupon from Optima.
Joe K's idea of using a clock timer is what I also do, and it works well with a standard battery charger. I've heard of battery tenders going bad and "cooking" batterys. With the timer, it's only powered up for the aamount of time you have it come on for. My Optima is only 3 yrs old so I can't provide any info about lifespan.

[al's28/33]

Thanks for the replies so far, I guess I should keep the trickle charger on the battery once in a while during the warmer summer months instead of waiting till it goes 100% dead in winter time and trying to charge it back to life!

[AlanD]

I used to get about 3 years out of a battery also, but then I started using the Battery Tender with the green label - just so we're talking about the same device. As I read the instructions, it is designed to leave on the battery for long periods of time which is what I do. I do not notice it boiling the battery but I do check the level and occasionally add some because of evaporation.

It seems I read a post somewhere (maybe here) that the batteries now-a days are made from recycled plates, and that's the reason they don't last as long as they used to.

Even with the Battery Tender, I don't get 10 years out of a battery. I'll let you know how long my present one lasts; purchased from Sams I think.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by leo

Is there a new generation of batteries being sold now? I keep hearing a commercial for Interstate (I think) saying their batteries will now last much longer than before.....

LOL, that shouldn't be hard to do.
When I worked at the yard one of my jobs was to check batteries for resale. I had the worst luck with Interstate batteries and the best luck with Sears Diehard. The only exception to the Interstate was the 6 volt Interstate my neighbor had laying in his garage. He gave it to me and I stuck it in my 1949 Chevy 1 1/2 ton truck. I abused that battery by letting it go dead, then recharging it when I used the truck, which was only about once or twice a year at most. I got over 10 years use from that battery. Wonder how long it would have gone if I treated it right.

[AlanD]

Have you heard the ole wives tale (should be called ole mechanics tale since I don't think wives ever did this) of setting a battery on a block of wood so it wont go dead. LOL
Tom - I wish I could revive batteries like you do. I've got a couple that are just dead wet lead.

[Joe K]

Have you heard the ole wives tale (should be called ole mechanics tale since I don't think wives ever did this) of setting a battery on a block of wood so it wont go dead. LOL

The old wives tale had some basis in fact when battery cases were bakelite - and tar tops. Slightly porous, the bakelite formed an ideal path for stray current when only slighty salted - and the tar tops with exposed bars only helped along.

And setting such a battery on a moisture laden concrete floor (ALL concrete connected to the ground contains moisture) only increased the current leakage.

Not to mention kept the battery cold when down near the floor - which as some have noted decreases the tendency to self discharge INTERNALLY - but worse decreases the available energy - at freezing about half the ampere-hour available as at 70F.

Today with heated garages and plastic cases not so much. Well, the floor is still a bit cold - which is why I usually keep the spare battery in the shop where the heat can be (not always - that thing called wood supply.)

Tom, I should shop your used battery store...

Joe K

[buddridge]

14 years on my 12v optima......only had a trickle charger on it for two 2 week periods. I need a new one this spring. Trickle charger is the culprit when it comes to short battery life. A good disconnect switch would be a great investment.

[Willie Krash]

I agree the old Diehards were stellar.
I would think a battery maintainer would fine if left on during winter. As long as it's voltage is controlled I would think battery gassing would not be an issue. In extremely cold climates ought to be helpful. I'm not a battery guy but in old school times you would have to get up around 16v or more to get a battery to gas up, well at least a good battery.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by Willie Krash

I agree the old Diehards were stellar...

The newer ones, not so much. Still good, but not near what they use to be.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

I buy CarQuest batteries and get 8 to 10 years out of them.I use a Battery Tender in the winter about once a month, bring it up until the green light goes on then disconnect it for another month then repeat. I have an alternator that has a built in regulator and a master disconnect switch thats off except for charging.

[Willie Krash]

I believe there are only three battery manufacturers in the USA. If you buy a battery chances are it will be made by Johnson controls.

[48fordnut]

I have an Optima in my car in my avatar that was bought in 1999. It has been used to start others, and still starts after sitting 6 weeks. I like them, but have been told that the newer Optimas are not as good.

[al's28/33]

Here's another question, does it matter WHERE the connectors for the battery tender are attached to ?
For example: do you guys attach them to the battery posts directly or the starter switch and a head nut ??

[Gold Digger]

I owned and operated a sand and gravel mine for 12 and a half years during the 70's and 80's and was going threw lots of batteries. I was told if I dumped the acid out and rinsed the cells out with a garden hose while up side down then refilled it I would get lots more service out of them. I couldn't believe how much black junk would come out. I done this on my dozers, loaders, and crane every 2 or 3 years after hearing this and in the last 8 years I owned the business I never bought another big battery.

[Mike V. Florida]

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Originally Posted by Gold Digger

I owned and operated a sand and gravel mine for 12 and a half years during the 70's and 80's and was going threw lots of batteries. I was told if I dumped the acid out and rinsed the cells out with a garden hose while up side down then refilled it I would get lots more service out of them. I couldn't believe how much black junk would come out. I done this on my dozers, loaders, and crane every 2 or 3 years after hearing this and in the last 8 years I owned the business I never bought another big battery.

I read this a couple of years ago;

Take your old crappy lead acid battery remove the caps and VERY CAREFULLY dump contents into a bucket I usually let them sit for an hour or so...You should be able to see a tremendous amount of sulfate buildup on the "Plates&Paste" inside...

Next Take a gallon of DISTILLED water and 2 of those dollar store Boxes of epsom salt...This is the trick the epson salt is magnesium sulfate wich in turn will eat the sulfates off the "Plates&paste" I normally will bring the Epsom and Water mix to a boil...this is where the grill comes in handy! Next dump the contents into your "retired" battery.

Set the battery on charge overnight @ THE LOWEST AMP SETTING YOU HAVE usually 2 amp

Remember that bucket of battery acid? It's going to need some doctoring.. Head to your Local Parts house and get yourself some battery acid usually a pint will do several batteries worth. Mix it into the bucket.*ADVISORY* The bucket is going to get pretty warm @ this point. After it sits a while pull out your handy dandy Battery Gravity Tester and verify your bucket is in the 1230-1250 range.


Day 2 Your battery should be a whole lot happier then when you started at this point Check the gravity in all the cells if they are low siphon off some of the Epsom mix and replace with the contents of your bucket. Trickle charge again over night and you should be good to go!!

* Battery acid is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS* be careful guys this will work 90% of the time. You do this @ your own risk!

[AlanD]

That's interesting about the epsom salt procedure. So I starting looking and found several references to this and other methods.

Like this procedure, some empty the battery out and replace the fluid with epsom salt and water. Others just add epsom salt water to the fluid, then another replaced the fluid with baking soda water.
Then another was a special charger that de-sulfated the plates.

I have a few dead batteries that I'd like to revive so I'm going to keep reading to find the preferred method. Has anybody ever actually tried this themselves?

[SHEC]

For me and my coupe, I simply disconnect the 6V when I am done driving for a spell. I have had good luck with batteries lasting on average 6 to 8 yrs. with regular use. I must say that 5 years ago I went to the alternator (6V posi. ground), thus no cutout worries.

I usually try to buy the least expensive battery 6V - group 1, and the make does not seem to matter as far as lifespan. Just a few thoughts - Thanks guys.

Be well -

SHEC

[James G.]

I have Optima 6V batteries in both my 31 Tudor and my 64 VW Bug. They are 8 years old and stay on the Battery junior when parked in the garage. Never a slow start, always fully charged. The Battery Tender Company advertises them as "m\Maintenance chargers" and they do that job well for me!

[al's28/33]

One other question has come to mind........at what point do you hook up the battery tender to begin with on a NEW battery ? Right after the very first time you start the car with it or not till it's a few months old so there has been some decrease in it's power ?

[klawockvet]

Dateline 1998: I bought a new Durolast battery for my generator. (I live off the grid in Alaska) I took it home and put it on the cement floor of the generator shed. It cranked the diesel generator fine for several years. I wasn't very good about checking the fluid. In 2002 I went south to work and the battery set for about 11 months. Came back and it was fired the generator right up. Sometime around 2010 it finally failed. Was low on water and wouldn't start the generator. Not bad for 12 years. So, I charged it up and planned on a new battery. Then I noticed the motor was running hot and it was due to the belt slipping. Put on a new belt and the temp went back to normal and the battery seemed to be holding a charge. Filled it with rainwater and went on with life. In the last few years we go south for the winter and the battery continues to sit on the concrete floor all winter. We come back in late spring and it cranks right over. Its working fine today. Moral of the story is that good luck in buying a battery trumps good care. When and if this battery ever dies I will clean it up and keep it as a trophy to pass down to my children. As for the Model A, I use a Duracell 6 volt and drive the car almost every day. No problems for the past two years nor do I expect any. My car is a driver and I drive it like Henry designed it to do. These cars were designed to drive and the original system works just fine unless they start suffering from disuse atrophy. JMO.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by al's28/33

One other question has come to mind........at what point do you hook up the battery tender to begin with on a NEW battery ? Right after the very first time you start the car with it or not till it's a few months old so there has been some decrease in it's power ?

If it truly is a tender and not just a low amp charger hooking it up at once will do no harm. All batteries will self discharge and the tender will charge only enough to over come this self discharge, if it truly is a tender by design.

[al's28/33]

YES the small version with the green face and yellow lettering by Deltran.