Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-09-2019, 03:31 PM   #1
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Hello,

I'm going to instal a Ford RTS 3spd transmission with OD in my 1934 Tudor.

They were fitted to Ford F150 2WD Pick Up’s 1984 - 1987, also called Tremec T170FT RTS.

I have been looking for a shifter for this transmission, but they are really hard to find. Does anyone have one for sale?

There are new shifters available for Jeep T170 transmissions, but are they the same - will they work?

Chris




Last edited by xelhan; 12-13-2019 at 11:31 AM.
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 04:03 PM   #2
Fordestes
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 765
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

The jeep shifter was a good swap to add a floor shift to a 4 speed trans. also , yes they can get a little pricy, I should have a spare or maybe can locate one ,send me a private message, I have never shipped out of the united states so if the shipping to Sweden becomes a problem I may not be able to help you, I'll have to check it out before I make any commitment. the last time I checked a (rebuilt) shift top was around $700 dollars U.S, I would suggest contacting Blumenthal's Remanufacturing in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma U.S.A. 1-800-262-9557, (central standard time) . also there is a t 170 listed on e bay for $250.00.

Last edited by Fordestes; 12-09-2019 at 04:33 PM.
Fordestes is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-09-2019, 09:09 PM   #3
johndee138
Senior Member
 
johndee138's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 350
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

The one I have in my 36 I just heated it up and bent it to my satisfaction, also shortened it some and rethreaded the end for the knob
johndee138 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2019, 10:00 PM   #4
36coupe
Senior Member
 
36coupe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NovaScotia
Posts: 520
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

I removed and cut mine off and welded a 36 shifter in its place. Looks good
__________________
Regards,
Lindsay
36coupe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 02:17 AM   #5
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

I need the shift lever only - the stick. But complete with spring etc.

A friend in LA will take delivery - no exporting

Chris
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2019, 05:57 PM   #6
T&A Flathead
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Pewaukee, WI (Milwaukee)
Posts: 38
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

I want to do the same conversion but am not finding any local machine shop capable of cutting, turning and resplining the trans shaft. Does anyone have a source for this that I can sent it to?
T&A Flathead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2019, 03:09 AM   #7
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Colton Bartlett
Sales Technician
260.726.6689
cbartlett@moserengineering.com
Moser Engineering
102 Performance Dr.
Portland, IN 47371

Will probably be able to help you. I will send my shafts to them.

I'm still looking for a stick

Chris
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 05:12 PM   #8
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

I have changed my mind and will go for a Volvo M47 transmission instead. It's a 5-speed and more suitable for a torque tube conversion than the T170 or T5 and the shift lever will be in the original position. No output shaft to cut and respline

Ciao
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 06:09 PM   #9
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 2,064
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

not being a volvo expert, i had to look it up. my brief search showed a trans that looks longer than the 170, and not an overdrive unless its added on the back, so longer yet, and the only ones i saw had the shifter way behind the main box, not out the top like the early m45's. i used one of those m45's many years ago and it was a good small 4 speed. my friend who is big into franklin cars splices the overdrive unit into the middle of the torque tube with very good results
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 07:09 PM   #10
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,750
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post
I have changed my mind and will go for a Volvo M47 transmission instead. It's a 5-speed and more suitable for a torque tube conversion than the T170 or T5 and the shift lever will be in the original position. No output shaft to cut and respline

Ciao
How about posting a photo of what you are thinking about. I did a search and what came up didn't look like an easy install nor have a usable shifter location.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2019, 07:34 PM   #11
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,942
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

I went and looked at that Volvo unit too and came to the same conclusion.


You don't get much shorter than this when considering 4-speeds PLUS O/D....hooked to a torque tube. DD


__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


It's one thing to be ignorant! It's a whole 'nother story when you're proud of it!




V8COOPMAN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 11:18 AM   #12
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Ny kåpa2.jpg

M47 växelspak bild.pdf

V- spak.jpg

Stålspak v2 (2).jpg

OK guys!

I will try to answer your questions and give you some more information.

The M47’s ratios are 4.03, 2.16, 1.37, 1.00 and 0.82. The M47 to look for is the improved M47 II from 1986 and up.

First gear is perfect for bumper to bumper traffic and when it’s time to go up the podium to collect your price . The overdrive is working well with a 3.78 rear axle.

The M47 is 330mm (13”) from bellhousing face to the torque tube adapter plate. That is 70mm (2.75”) longer than the T170 and I believe that is close to the T5 in length.

Like on the T170 the U-joke bolts up against the output shafts bearing, which is not the case with the T5 as far as I understand. We are making a billet U-joint combo in the Ford fashion with a replaceable U-joint cross, but with a different spline to fit the Volvo output shaft and machined outside finish for the radial seal – no machining of the output shaft required.

We have made special bell housings for the M47 combined with other engines already - see drawing – and we will soon make one that fits the V8 flathead and possibly a special for Model A too. No machining of the input shaft, just a Volvo clutch disc.

The M47, M46 and the M45 all shift gears by turning and sliding the shaft that protrudes through the back plate. This shaft is connected to the shift rod #4 – see split view – which in its turn is connected to the shift lever. The shift rod can have any length and it can be mounted in the opposite direction, again in any length. We have made a new housing #43 that can be welded to a bracket and bolted to the cover on top of the transmission, using the covers retaining bolts. Or, we will cast a new cover that incorporates #43.

I don’t know if this installation require any frame modifications – time will tell.


Chris

Last edited by xelhan; 12-13-2019 at 11:26 AM.
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 12:06 PM   #13
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor


This picture from the shop manual gives you a better view of the shift mechanism.

The complete shift lever in the previous post is for a Volvo car. The short pieces and especially the straight one will be fitted to the Ford original stick. The new housing #43 is to the left,
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 3.pdf (255.5 KB, 14 views)
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 12:14 PM   #14
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,750
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Ist gear would be nearly worthless and 2nd gear would be a little steep to start off in. Not gearing I would want. The t-5z 1st gear is 2.95 and has closer gears. I think the normal 5.0 mustang T-5 is somewhere around 3.25.

Trying new approaches can be fun, but I'm a big T-5 fan!
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 12:23 PM   #15
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor


2.95 first and close ratio is great for the track
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 03:18 PM   #16
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,750
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

2.95 first and close ratio is great for the track
Totally disagree, they are great period. I'm not a truck gear fan on the street, but if you like them, use them. There are a lot of folks running the wide ratio S-10 boxes. Just wanted to be sure you were aware of what you were going to end up with. Sounds like you do, so if you like that gear set you should be fine. Little difficult to tell from the photos, but that looks like a big case. Keep us posted on how it goes.

Question, what are you considering for an adapter to the flathead? If you don't have anything in mind, a hogshead with a flat plate adapter might work. That is what I use on the T-5z.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 03:57 PM   #17
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,942
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

2.95 first and close ratio is great for the track
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Totally disagree, they are great period.

For comparison's sake, most old Ford V8 transmission gearsets have a 2.82 1st gear. That's a miniscule 4% difference (feels about the same) as compared with the 2.95 1st gear found in the close ratio T5 gearsets that JSeery and I religiously advocate as the "ABOUT PERFECT" 4-speed gearset for a street-driven vehicle. Like Seery said, that 4.03 1st gear (in the real world) is pretty much useless unless you're idling-along in a parade or dragging timber through the woods. Of course, please use what you deem appropriate in your vehicle. By the way, the little shorty T5 that we concocted in the picture in Post #11 measures exactly 15-1/4" from the front face to the rear face where the torque tube adapter bolts-on. We assembled that shortened, basic transmission entirely from factory Borg Warner pieces. It's roughly 9" shorter than a run of the mill S-10 T5. DD


__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


It's one thing to be ignorant! It's a whole 'nother story when you're proud of it!




V8COOPMAN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 04:22 PM   #18
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor


With 3 gears only they had to start high.

Take a ride in a Volvo or any other modern car and you will probably not find first gear to be useless. Why would a car manufacturer build a useless transmission. My original Shelby Cobra has a 3.08 first which is perfect for that car considering how it's used, but I would not like it for my old Ford.

No comment on the shift lever that you guys found to be totaly wrong!
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 07:35 PM   #19
Ol' Ron
Senior Member
 
Ol' Ron's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chester Vt
Posts: 7,261
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

The F150 trans is an inexpensive swap behind an 8ba block. I used the stamped steel bell housing by boring out the register to the trans size and welding on some tabs to bolt it on. I think the gear ratios are not very important, just something to complain about. The trans is so much better than what it replaces. One trip around the block and your sold. then take it out on the road and it's the topping to your sunday
PS the stock clutch setup works quite well.
Ol' Ron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2019, 10:10 PM   #20
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,750
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

It's all about what you will be happy with. These modifications are a lot of work to not get it right the first time. If you go into it understanding where you will most likely end up and it meets your examinations, your set.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 10:42 AM   #21
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Thank you Ol' Ron
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 11:21 AM   #22
xelhan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Avesta, Sweden
Posts: 63
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor


V8COOPMAN!

My other 34' Tudor is a real Hot Rod with a LS7 engine and a 6L80E transmission with a 4.02 first gear. Maybe you should call GM to let them know they've got it all wrong and offer them your technical services - I'm sure they will be delighted.

Have a nice weekend,
Chris
xelhan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #23
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,942
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

V8COOPMAN!

My other 34' Tudor is a real Hot Rod with a LS7 engine and a 6L80E transmission with a 4.02 first gear. Maybe you should call GM to let them know they've got it all wrong and offer them your technical services.
Chris

Maybe if you knew a little more about the development of the 6L80s you'd realize that they were created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations. It's gearing was designed to keep the engine in it's power band longer for economy reasons. It should also be noted that many applications utilized 2.73 rear gears. That 4.03 (actually 4.027) first gear yields an overall first gear ratio of right at 11:1, necessary to get a relatively heavy car or pick-up moving initially with the low numerical rear end ratios. 6L80s were designed for gross weights up to 8,600 GVW. The reason Borg-Warner (for GM) put 4.03 1st gears in some T5 transmissions is because they needed that sort of gearing to get the things rolling initially with a wimpy 4-banger. All V8s had the 2.95 1st gear set. Since you're talking torque tube adaptation, you should note that Ford produced NO banjo rear end ratios anywhere near 2.73. Even with a 3.54 old Ford rear end, a 4.03 1st gear will yield an overall 1st gear ratio of 14.27 to 1...…..ridiculous! A 3.78 Ford banjo rear makes it even worse.


One last little bit...you ain't got no "REAL hot rod". Real hot rods have three pedals on the floor, and they certainly don't have AUTOMATIC transmissions. You, Sir, have yourself an everyday street rod. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


It's one thing to be ignorant! It's a whole 'nother story when you're proud of it!




V8COOPMAN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 02:34 PM   #24
bobH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: so cal, placerville, vegas
Posts: 1,068
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Might as well put my 'worthless' two cents in.... I'm a jeep-nut in addition to playing with old fords. For years, I had a cj7 with the factory installed T5 (3.31 axles). I can assure anyone, first gear is worthless, at least on the street. That cj has been with me many years, and with more than one power train. I haven't had the T5 for more than 15 years. My point being, it was (in my opinion) a very poor combination for a jeep. And, it would certainly not suit my taste behind a flathead ford. Obviously, and with respect, all just opinion.

Last edited by bobH; 12-14-2019 at 02:40 PM.
bobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 02:41 PM   #25
bobH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: so cal, placerville, vegas
Posts: 1,068
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Amusing observation regarding hot rods and street rods. Me thinks it's an age-thing. Gotta be almost as old as me to know or remember what a hot rod is/was.
bobH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 03:49 PM   #26
V8COOPMAN
Senior Member
 
V8COOPMAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Shore of LAKE HOUSTON
Posts: 5,942
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobH View Post
Amusing observation regarding hot rods and street rods. Me thinks it's an age-thing. Gotta be almost as old as me to know or remember what a hot rod is/was.

Hey Bob...I started my hands-on piddlin' with these old Fords in the early '60s, long before anyone had made-up the term "street rod". In 1971, I attended my first Street Rod Nationals and saw the writing on the wall....street rods were born and scootin' all over the place in Memphis, as well as the rest of the country. I thought the "hot rod" world had finally come of age, and I built three street rods over the next several years. Meanwhile, I got very involved with the authentic restorations of mid year Corvettes in the mid '80s. We finally had enough of the politics involved with judging those things and by the latter part of the '90s, I was ready to get back to the old Fords, and by that time I had matured barely enough to appreciate the cultural differences between hot rods and jelly-bean street rods. I fully appreciate our stock and restored old Fords, but my true interest is with the traditional cars and folklore of true hot rodders from the late '40 and into the early '60s.


It's encouraging to hear someone else with real, first-hand experience speaking authoritatively about just how worthless that wimpy 1st gear is in the T5s on the street. DD
__________________
T5 W/TORQUE TUBE


It's one thing to be ignorant! It's a whole 'nother story when you're proud of it!




V8COOPMAN is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2019, 04:34 PM   #27
JSeery
Senior Member
 
JSeery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 13,750
Default Re: Ford F150 transmission for my 34' Tudor

Quote:
Originally Posted by xelhan View Post

V8COOPMAN!

My other 34' Tudor is a real Hot Rod with a LS7 engine and a 6L80E transmission with a 4.02 first gear. Maybe you should call GM to let them know they've got it all wrong and offer them your technical services - I'm sure they will be delighted.

Have a nice weekend,
Chris
Don't take suggestions/inputs as personnel attacks. There is a lot of experience here on the Barn and some of us enjoy sharing knowledge. You can build your car anyway you want, but you might want to at least consider inputs from folks that have been down this road. There are formulas on line for the final gear ratio design goal (trans gear ratio x rear axle ratio) ranges best for certain applications. No one is saying it won't work, it will, it is about how useful and pleasant a vehicle is to drive.
JSeery is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:33 PM.