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Old 04-07-2019, 03:43 PM   #21
JimNNN
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

Given all of the info from the variety of sources, it seems most reasonable for me to assume at this point that the engine is a 1967 Mercury 390, with a two barrel carb that's likely original to the engine but possibly not. That will surely suffice for the purposes of tune up and timing. The carb is interesting in that it has a thin metal tag on it that has a number that appears to be some sort part # that's related to the larger part number scheme (though it may not be.) I can't remember what it is, but it starts with "C7...." That may refer to the year, but it may not. It is an Autolite, though.
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Old 04-07-2019, 06:37 PM   #22
rotorwrench
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

I have no idea what it is but the chances of it being Mercury are about 40%. That engine would have been used on Fords and Mercury vehicles. The 410 is kind of rare. The 390 was common in cars of both Ford and Mercury. The 360 was common in Ford pickups. The production figures lean toward Ford. The chances it is a 390 are about 60/40. Those odds leave things in doubt about what it is. You may be able to measure the stroke through a spark plug hole. That's the only way you will find out what it is where it really counts.

All I was trying to get across to you is that having an M in the casting number does not mean it is from a Mercury. It certainly could have been but there is no guarantee. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. They all literally had the same set up but just in different displacements here and there with 2V and 4V options about equal.

Just to add: Back in the mid to late 60s, the Galaxie and LTD cars were very popular and many of them were FE powered. The Mercury Marquis and Monterey were also popular and very similar in build to the Galaxie series but the Galaxie series outsold the Mercury line. 1967 was the last year of the breezeway top and the first year of the Marquis. All these cars likely shared the same engine in 1967 with the exception of the 410 and 428 FE. Base cars had smallblocks but higher end cars had the FE and many were 2V.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 04-07-2019 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 04-07-2019, 08:05 PM   #23
alt63bird
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

Looks like correct-style air cleaner/snorkel for a '65 'Bird/Galaxie. To be more-precise, the color used on air cleaners and valve covers of '65 Z-code 390-300 hp engines is Gold Bronze, which was used as early as 1958 on Mercury 383s and on hipo 352-390s of '60-'64 vintage. Too many people paint them a really bright gold color a'la Oldsmobile V8s. The gold-bronze color, I think, was also used on the higher-hp 289s of '64-'65. Intake, heads, block, front cover, oil pan and numerous accessory items like oil filler cap, starter, fan, pulleys and brackets were black, while there's a bunch of items that were not painted like the alternator, carb-to-intake spacer, fan clutch. If you have a non-AC car with a top-mounted power steering reservoir/Eaton pump it's argent silver, while cars with AC that had the Ford/Thompson-style pump had black-painted reservoirs/covers and silver cad filler cap.

If you're really looking for a more in-depth description of finishes and components, including casting/part numbers, in a '64-'66 T-bird's engine bay you need to get ahold of Vintage Thunderbird Club International's (VTCI) 1964-1966 Original Factory Specifications (OFS) manual, available for sale to members of VTCI. Go to www.vintagethunderbirdclub.net and find the pull-down menu for Country Store/Buy Concours Rules along with checking out the VTCI Forum's 1964-1966 Thunderbirds section. This will also have interior, trunk, undercarriage and other interesting/useful information if you're looking to restore or maintain the car.
Full disclosure: I've been involved in developing VTCI's OFS manuals since the 1990s and their current Technical Director.
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Last edited by alt63bird; 04-07-2019 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 04-08-2019, 07:05 PM   #24
JimNNN
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

I measured the stroke today and it's 3.75 inches. Used the wood dowel technique. It works fine and is straight forward, but you have to be consistent to keep the geometry right.



Rotorwrench is correct...with further research online I found that the block part number stuff isn't as consistent or decipher-able as a newbie would hope. Thanks for the input and persistence, Rotorwrench. I DID get the full number from the carburetor though, and the 65 T-bird shop manual helps to identify at least the date of the carb pretty accurately. It was apparently made in late December of 1966. If my engine is from 1967-ish, then there's a good possibility that the 2 bbl carb and manifold are original to the engine, not that it matters.



I'm having a real hard time finding anything that looks like timing marks on the pulley. Have to find TDC on the #1 cyl again and see what looks like a mark on the pulley near the pointer.



I didn't have near this much trouble finding marks on the 352 in my '61 Merc. Dwell is only reading 16 and a half on the T Bird...yikes...but I don't want to adjust it till I get the ignition timing set.
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #25
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post
...
Dwell is only reading 16 and a half on the T Bird...yikes...but I don't want to adjust it till I get the ignition timing set.
Set the Dwell before the timing.
If you set the timing first it will change when the points are set correctly.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:19 AM   #26
rotorwrench
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

The early ones had a dot on the crank pulley with a degree type pointer set up. Later ones it the 66/67 time frame had multiple degree marks on the pulley with a single pointer on the timing cover. The degree marks may be very shallow and hard to see or locate.
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:55 PM   #27
dmsfrr
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimNNN View Post
... I'm having a real hard time finding anything that looks like timing marks on the pulley. ...
With road dirt and other stuff on the pulley it can be tough. Having the fan belts, generator and other accessories in the way doesn't help.

If you can lift the front end of the car up and look at the crank pulley from underneath you might have better luck???
(example photo, not a 60's FE engine)
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Old 04-09-2019, 05:38 PM   #28
JimNNN
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

Thanks for the photo, dmsfrr. I saw something similar to those markings, but they were barely discernible from the scratches and road wear marks on the pulley. Nowhere near as obvious as those. I guess I'll mark them with chalk and get the first cyl near TDC again and see how close they are. Lifting the car is a good idea. I'll try again in the next few days and see what I can manage.


I'm pretty sure I had another car set up like this and I think I remember hearing that the marks were extremely shallow because making deeper marks would through the pulley out of balance and hurt things in the long run. I have no idea if that's true.
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Old 04-09-2019, 07:26 PM   #29
dmsfrr
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Default Re: 1965 Thunderbird engine colors (etc.)

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Thanks for the photo, dmsfrr.
I guess I'll mark them with chalk and get the first cyl near TDC again and see how close they are. ...
You're welcome.
I used a small tipped paint pen from a hobby/craft store to mark these, it lasts longer than chalk.
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