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Old 09-12-2016, 08:39 PM   #1
drolston
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Default 59A/B Stud Challenge

Other than rods knocking, the 59A/B in my '41 coupe runs well. Burns no oil and compression in the high 80's all cylinders, cold. My plan was to get it running with all the bolt-ons and then pull the engine for a rebuild. Headers, Pertronix ignition and three progressive 97's on 2" risers all working well. Time to try the Offy .425 heads. For whatever reason, this engine had one stud and the rest cap screws. Used an electric impact wrench, as the supposed least risky tool. Nonetheless, on the driver's side, six broke a the block surface, one about two threads into the block. Tried to drill that one and use and easy-out. The very expensive drill bit broke off deep in the stud, and the easy-out would not budge the stud. Tried the weld-a-washer-and-a-nut trick on another, and it broke at the weld three times. I have a Lincoln 125 MIG welder which I am just getting to know.

First question: I am using 5/16 by 2" fender washers; are they too light to weld to the 7/16 stud? Any special techniques to get a solid weld of washer to stud? Would I have better luck using solid wire and the Argon gas mix than with the flux core welding wire? Or with this many busted studs, and the prospect of several more, should I just leave it up to the machine shop? I haven't even pulled the passenger side head yet.

Second question: Can anyone recommend a reliable flathead overhaul shop in Virginia?
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:47 PM   #2
Capt Kirk
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

You lost me at "rods knocking"
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:04 PM   #3
38bill
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

I had a small welder like that and it was fine for sheet metal but it didnt work very well on heavy stuff. Could be the block is pulling too much heat away from the weld and the 125 just cant get good penetration. I believe that the heating of the stud is also what helps loosen it up so you may need more amps.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Believe TIG works well for this if you can find someone with a TIG welder.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:32 PM   #5
mrtexas
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Your problem with MIG is penetration. I second the TIG. There is also a special stick welder rod just for your problem.

"flux core welding wire" very bad idea
"Used an electric impact wrench" another very bad idea

Better idea is heat up stud a couple times/quench and use a pipe wrench or a special stud socket

Last edited by mrtexas; 09-12-2016 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 09-12-2016, 10:44 PM   #6
cretin
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

When removing the broken studs in my engine, one stud took something like 6 or 7 rounds of welding a washer and nut to it before it finally came out, working back and forth each time. I was however using a TIG, as that is my preferred method of welding.
I would suggest finding someone with a TIG to help, or let the machine shop handle it.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:04 PM   #7
Ronnie
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Use a tig it will get it done real quick.People have used mig but not as easy as tig
Having said that I have tig welded for 30+ years and do know how to weld.I am not suggesting you don't have welding skills but just to accomplish it with a mig can be done,but does require a skill set.May be just as easy for you to hunt down a buddy with a tig and have him do it for you.

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Old 09-12-2016, 11:14 PM   #8
MDC
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Last summer I twisted off 2 studs on my 1941 flathead truck. I wasted over a day trying to weld nuts and washers with my wire welder. It just didn't get hot enough.

I used the drill out method to remove them described on reds-headers.com, engine talk, broken head studs-more removal tips. I got a machine shop to make the 2 sleeves required out of stainless steel for $9.00 and bought 2 new drill bits. Total cost less than $20.00.

The sleeves fit into the bolt hole in the cylinder head above the broken stud and guide the drill bit into the stud. You drill out the stud except for the threads and leave the threads in the block untouched.

It was simple and took less than 15 minutes on each one. If you can't find the post on reds-headers.com, message me and I can give you more details. It worked great.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

I'd say the 5/16 hole is too small.

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Old 09-13-2016, 05:10 AM   #10
JWL
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

First, the type of welding process IS NOT IMPORTANT. It is only important to do a proper job. I have removed hundreds of broken studs with stick welding. Of course I use the TIG process also, but, as mentioned by someone previously, there is a level of skill involved regardless of the process. Doing a proper job means getting good fusion with adequate penetration. The machine/process must be capable as well as the operator. Also, I agree the 5/16 washer is not large enough for most broken head studs.
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:23 AM   #11
flatheadmurre
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

The idee is to get enough heat into the part stuck in the block so it expands and then cooling down frees up from the block.
So which ever metod you use make sure you heat it hot and long enough for the heat to reach down into the entire bolt.
Then let it cool down so it frees up before trying to loosen it.
Its not only that you want something welded onto it for wrenching...you want the heat to break it loose for you to.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:13 PM   #12
drolston
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

As always, lots of good feedback from this board. Thanks. I am a novice welder and probably too timid in the amount of heat to get the penetration needed. I will keep after it with 3/8 washers, and report back. If that fails I will try the method of using the head and a sleeve as a drill guide.

Still need a recommendation for an experienced flathead rebuild shop within a hundred miles or so from the Hampton VA area.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:37 PM   #13
Seth Swoboda
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Just a thought here, why waste your time trying to remove the broken studs when you're going to take it to a machine shop for machine work anyway? They will remove that stud faster than you or I could monkey around with it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:38 PM   #14
Mart
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

The last one I did took a combination approach. I tried welding, no good. I then drilled most of the way through and then filled it with weld. Then I put a washer on and welded that, then a nut on the washer. I then Used an air gun to tighten it. Once I saw the slightest bit of movement I tried it in reverse (undo) and got it going back and forth. Then repeat often, and it went a little further each time, eventually coming out.

I think the drilling and filling with weld not only heat shocked it but shrank it as it cooled.

That was the last one I did.

I just pulled the heads off a French motor and each one undid with a faint snap and just spun out. Very satisfying. The French motors have 1 stud and 23 bolts per side.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:55 PM   #15
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Or burn them out. If the stud is over the water jacket, first drill a 1/4-5/16" hole all the way through into the water jacket. Then with a cutting torch get the stud good and red before hitting the oxygen lever. Stay on the lever until you have burned out the entire stud. The rust around the threads acts as an insulator keeping the block threads from glowing red and also burning. If metal is not red hot, the extra oxygen from the cutting lever actually cools off what you're trying to cut. The hole you drilled lets the slag blow away instead of back at you. With a little practice all you need to do is chase a few crumbs.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:28 PM   #16
drolston
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

I broke it so I wanted to fix it, but after 50 years of marriage, my wife has finally convinced me that I have certain limitations. One more try with the welded nut, and then off to the machine shop she goes.

Machine shop recommendations??
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:39 PM   #17
Seth Swoboda
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by drolston View Post
I broke it so I wanted to fix it, but after 50 years of marriage, my wife has finally convinced me that I have certain limitations. One more try with the welded nut, and then off to the machine shop she goes.

Machine shop recommendations??
I understand your point. Anytime something I'm using breaks, my first instinct is to immediately try and fix it myself.

Do you know fordbarner TomT from Williamsburg Va? He would be able to point you in the direction of a capable machine shop.
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Old 09-13-2016, 02:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

Heh, heh. I've only been married for 25 years, but I've come to the realization that I can complete about 90% of the mechanical projects on my old vehicles, but there's at least a 50% chance I'll break something else in the process.
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Old 09-13-2016, 03:28 PM   #19
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

The first thing about welding is knowing what the material you are welding to IS and what the material you are welding IS, MOST studs are an hardened or alloy material and your washer and nut are most likely low carbon steel and standard weld rod or wire will not work with hardened material... the weld will break every time.....Once you can figure the "TYPE" of materials and correct rod/wire for that THEN the type of welder becomes less important THEN the quality of the weld job will be next!!!!!
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Old 09-13-2016, 04:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: 59A/B Stud Challenge

What would be some of the rod designations you recommend? Good info for the members.

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