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Old 07-26-2014, 08:01 PM   #1
KMeredith87
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Default Modern front seal

So as many of you know by now I recently completed the build of my engine in my '30 pickup. Runs absolutely fantastic and couldn't be happier. However, I now have just over 100 miles on the engine and I'm getting what I consider a substantial oil leak from what appears to be the front seal around the crank. I used a modern one piece seal and up until last night had little to no leak from it. You can tell it's the front seal due to the front of the pan being wet and the oil path...rear main is fine and don't see any other leaks from the pan. Anyone have experience with the one piece seal? Worth it to try it again. Or scrap it and use the two piece rope? I really hate dropping the pan with the engine in the car so I'm hoping to only do this once. Thanks for you advice!
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Old 07-26-2014, 08:42 PM   #2
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Hi, K,

FWIW: In 56 years, I never, ever, ever, ever, ever, had a rope seal leak ...... so I never tried a modern front seal.

1. I coat metal & back of standard rope seal with Permatex No. 2.

2. Then, Lightly mash seal in place with a socket wrench.

3. Trim seal only if the seal protrudes upwards more than 1/8" above mating metal surface and/or the oil pan gasket; &,

4. Generously coat inner round circular surfaces of rope seal with grease.

5. Never, ever, ever soaked rope seal in oil overnight to make it initially swell up whereby it can shrink a few years later when petroleum volatiles evaporate.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:34 PM   #3
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Ditto what H.L. said.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:38 PM   #4
George Miller
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Default Re: Modern front seal

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Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg View Post
Ditto what H.L. said.

Same for me.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:42 PM   #5
James Rogers
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Modern front seal is a joke and I have never had one to work properly. Use the original grubs.
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Old 07-26-2014, 09:54 PM   #6
KMeredith87
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Thanks for the info guys, looks like I'll change it out for the rope ones I have. Wish I'd have known better to begin with but a modern one came with some of my stuff and it sounded good...live and learn, I'll know better next time that's for sure!
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Old 07-26-2014, 10:07 PM   #7
Mike V. Florida
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Default Re: Modern front seal

With the title of this thread what it is I hope other do a search before they decide to do the same.
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Old 07-26-2014, 11:04 PM   #8
BILL WILLIAMSON
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Default Re: Modern front seal

I "thought" about using a modern seal, BUT, my new, screw together, 2 piece pulley had a porous, pock marked seal surface. Polished it with fine emery cloth & even crocus cloth, & they were still there. Those pock marks would, very shortly, wear off the critical edge of the sealing lip & PFFFFFT, an oil leak! I don't remember where I bought it??? My new rope seal was PERFECTLY formed & fit like a glove, I put just a mini-drop of RTV on each end & that sucker wuz done. AND, don't soak them in oil, that waterfall of oil from the front of the oil chamber, will do it for you! Again, I don't remember where I bought it!
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Old 07-27-2014, 08:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Modern front seal

I started working in a hydraulic cylinder plant in 1962. Retired form one where we made up to 24' bore cylinders. A lip seal needs a 15 finish where the lip of the seal rides, like on the pulley hub to last. That is like glass. No lip seal is going to last on that rough surface.

Stick to the rope seal, they used them in a lot of engine up into the 70ts.
Of course they have to be installed correctly. Do not soak. use grease on the seal surface after it is installed.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: Modern front seal

George, pardon my ignorance here but what is a 15 finish? I understand the concept you are trying to get a cross but just don't know what a 15 finish is. Out of curiosity would something like that be possible to do to the crank pulley, effort worth it? I'm assuming no but curious none the less.
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Old 07-27-2014, 10:41 AM   #11
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Quote:
Originally Posted by KMeredith87 View Post
George, pardon my ignorance here but what is a 15 finish? I understand the concept you are trying to get a cross but just don't know what a 15 finish is. Out of curiosity would something like that be possible to do to the crank pulley, effort worth it? I'm assuming no but curious none the less.
15 Micro not sure of spelling never was any good at spelling.
Any way they have a class of finish. 15 is very good, 32 would be good, 64 not to bad 125 rough so on. Some of the hubs are around 63-125.

Yes you could get real close to that finish. For a 15 finish most of the time it would be ground and polished, ground and plated, or burnished.

You could polish it very good in a lathe. Start out with course emery like 220 and work your way down to real fine. But it also has to run real true when it is on the crank. Much run out and it will leak. Plus it has to seal around the out side of the seal.

So I have ask why do all that when you can just put in a rope seal and be done. I never had a problem with a leaking rope seal.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:47 PM   #12
Logan
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Default Re: Modern front seal

With the modern front seal you can't use a pulley that has the spiral groove cut in it to throw oil back into the pan. Also, there is a front and a back side to the seal. I've been using them for going on 6 years now. One of the seals has been in 2 different motors. Never had a problem. I've always liked them, and never had a problem. I've used 3 so far. You might also check how tight your pan bolts are now. They may have loosened up with all the heat/cool cycles.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:53 PM   #13
KMeredith87
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Default Re: Modern front seal

George, just curious, I will be putting a rope seal back in it but wanted to use this as a learning experience.

Logan, I did notice there is a front and back and it is installed correctly. The pulley does not have any groves in it and was new when installed. I have also checked the pan bolts and they are all snug and not other leaks are noticeable. Never had a problem with my old engine with the rope seal so that's what's going back it in, not worth the fit for me but glad they work for someone.
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Old 07-27-2014, 02:34 PM   #14
TDO
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Default Re: Modern front seal

I'm using a modern seal in mine and have no problem with it. I just replaced my pulley with a 2 piece I got from Snyder's. It has a ground finish and would be better than a 32 finish. close to a 15 finish.
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Old 07-28-2014, 04:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Modern front seal

Modern front seals there are at least 3 different styles sold and only 1 works it cost a little more but it works
I fitted a few of them never seen a drop from them
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:11 AM   #16
machineman64
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Default Re: Modern front seal

I installed a modern seal purchased from Bert's and followed Steve's instructions about 2 years ago, about 1000 miles, and it is dry as can be, no leak's. Very satisfied with seal and service from Bert's.

John
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:33 AM   #17
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Default Re: Modern front seal

You know your Monday morning coffee friends would have told you the same thing!
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