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Old 11-27-2013, 08:24 PM   #1
Wilbur
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Default Oil in the water

I went to check my oil today and noticed that a brown oily/ water mess has come out of the radiator overflow tube and is laying around the front motor mount. Upon looking into the radiator, l see that it's chock full of this oily sludge. What's the popular opinion as to what the issue is? I drained the oil out of the crankcase, and it looked fine, showing no water in the base. Does a blown head gasket give this result? She ran a little crappy coming home from a party last weekend and that was the last time l ran it.
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:42 PM   #2
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Default Re: Oil in the water

blown head gasket, but before you panick retorque the head and change oil and see if the problem goes away, as a last resort add some bars leak, hopefully is not a cracked block, a cracked head is a pain in the butt but can be fixed in a day
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Old 11-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #3
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Is 55 ft lbs correct? I'm gonna run out and do that now and do a compression test.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:00 PM   #4
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Well, it just got BIG. I set the torque wrench to 55 and opened the Red Book to see the tightening sequence. The first 6 bolts were mostly fine, some moved a bit, then when I put the wrench on #7, it just snapped right off, without ANY PRESSURE. It was held in place with Crazy Glue.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Oil in the water

well at least hopefully its not a cracked block, but with what you said i dont think so, have the head surfaced, take your time removing the stud, hopefully its broke high enough up to get a stud puller on it, use lots of penetrating oil and heat to loosen the threads before you try to remove the stud, a 50 50 mix of acetone and atf is the best fot that
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Oil in the water

how long have you had the car? who 'rebuilt' the engine ?

There are 'rebuilders' out there who are putting the wood to our members and not being identified as such so that others can avoid a similar fiasco. IMO all shoddy workmanship should be brought to light. And I have about had it with the builders who are on this forum who will defend each and every engine screw-up that is uncovered by our members.

Some of our members are forking over 2-3 K dollars or more for crappy workmanship and not even being given any vaseline.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Oil in the water

lol, its pretty hard to explain away a glued on head bolt
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Is it possible the sludge could be some of the grease from the water pump and not necessarily the head gasket?

Best of luck removing the head bolt. Hopefully just the head is loose at that bolt and no cracked block.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:46 AM   #9
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Default Re: Oil in the water

This engine hasn't been apart in a long time and l bought the car from an estate, a year ago, so I just have to take it as it comes. I've driven it about 2000 miles this way, unknowingly. I've decided that I'll run it with detergent in the radiator to wash it out, put coolant in and just keep driving it as it is and do frequent oil changes. This engine should come out for rebuild, but not right now, as I just put my T Touring up for the winter. Luckily, I live within 3 hours of Schalm's Babbited Bearings, a fantastic A engine shop. It's gonna go there and he can deal with that broken stud!
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Wise choice they can do the proper checks and repairs .
Best of luck
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:48 AM   #11
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Default Re: Oil in the water

if it was me i would run a drill bit that just fit in the head and spot the broken stud dead center for ease of future extraction.

john
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Old 11-28-2013, 10:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Oil in the water

i wouldnt run the engine any farther than you have, water in the oil is the one thing that can destroy your crank, and a lot of other parts in the engine, i would at least pull the head and fix the broken head stud, a few hours and a $100 now will save you a month of work and $3000 to $4000 later
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Good advice, all. The strange thing here is that there is no water in the oil. Can anybody offer an explanation as to why?
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Old 11-28-2013, 12:26 PM   #14
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Default Re: Oil in the water

No water in the oil makes me feel that it's grease from the water pump that's contaminating your cooling system.

Either that or your head gasket is leaking so small that the water is getting vaporized or blown directly out the exhaust and not accumulating enough in the oil.
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Old 11-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Oil in the water

With a broken head stud I wouldn't bet my babbit on no water in the oil for long.
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Old 11-28-2013, 11:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: Oil in the water

exactly.

you may have a good babbit guy close by (YAY) but you need to protect your crank. You caught it early! Stop driving until at least the stud is repaired.
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Old 11-29-2013, 09:59 AM   #17
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Default Re: Oil in the water

The "don't drive it" advice did sink in and I am going to pull the head next week. I came across a great article on Ford Garage regarding welding a washer to the broken stud and then welding a nut to the washer. Love it! That is my plan of attack, as l don't care much for ez-outs. Welding is what I do for a living. Any advice as to which studs to purchase?
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Old 11-29-2013, 10:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Broken stud reminds me of a story a young aircraft engineer told some years ago. He had just started at Boeing. Someone had found a discrepancy in the blueprints for a new model airliner-some holes were off so a bolt would not fit. They sent him out to check on a just-completed plane. He found a bolt in the designated spot but the plan dimensions said it wouldn't fit. He put a wrench on the bolt and the head popped right off. There was no bolt hole. The head had just been glued onto the fuselage!
Think about that your next flight! (Remember, the plane did pass final inspection!)
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:58 AM   #19
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Brattons and Snyders and all of them sell the studs. Brattons is closest to u I think.
Likely that stud is frozen in there pretty bad. I agree that EZ outs seldom work and usually break off. Especially when the fastener is frozen in there.

You need heat and vibration and an old trick.

1. For what it is worth, soak around the stud for a day or so with your fav penetrant.
2. Weld your nut on. allow to cool. The heat will soak down into the threads and begin to break up the fine rust particles which have such a tight grip.
3. Take a small hammer and tap (not hammer) multiple times to set up some vibration again to loosen the fines. 100 times is not too much. If you have an air hammer set it on low and do the same thing it will be much easier. You are not trying to move anything, just setting up a bunch of vibration
4. Keep in mind that you may need more heat as you go along. Do not heat the block. Heat the stud and let it travel down into the threads. Go back and forth between heat and vibration as much as is necessary
5. The old timer's trick is to tighten first. This does not mean to accomplish actual motion. You can always tighten a frozen fastener easier than you can loosen it. No one knows why. Very gently apply a tightening motion followed by a loosening motion. Repeat. No actual motion will occur nor do you want it to occur. At some point during the loosening torque that you apply you will hear/feel a slight sound of the stud breaking away from the block threads. Continue penetrant/heat/vibration as many times as needed until your loosening motion actually delivers some loosening perhaps a quarter turn. Keep going back and forth tighten-loosen. You will be able to remove the entire stud with this method. If you hear a squeaking and the stud gets real hard to turn out, stop and re-apply heat and vibration. That squeaking sound means it is about to snap off.

This is the way to finesse a frozen fastener. It takes me longer to type it than to do it. Us former back-east people were raised on rust, and even fed rust-flavored Gerbers as babies. You have to follow the time-honored methods back there or you will snap every fastener. I have never snapped a stud or bolt with these methods.

Good luck, and take your time!
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Last edited by tbirdtbird; 11-29-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 11-29-2013, 12:49 PM   #20
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Default Re: Oil in the water

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilbur View Post
... Any advice as to which studs to purchase?
I got a set of ARP studs for mine.
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