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Old 09-24-2017, 06:42 PM   #1
VinnieCap
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Default New 28 Ford, have some questons

Hello,

Been a member here a long time, but haven't posted much.

I just purchased a '28 Ford Model A. . I first started looking at this car in 2009 and was able to buy it off of the family just last month.

It was an AACA Senior National First Prize winner in 1983. The car has deteriorated some what, but still overall it's in great condition.

The car is all original (not modified), so still 6 volt, and all the '28 stuff still correct.

Hopefully you guys can answer some questions for me:

1. I just replaced the headlight bulbs with 2 Bulb Type - 6 Volt - Double Contact - 32-50 Candle Power. Now when I turn on the headlights the ammeter pegs discharge and the car will sputter and not want to run. What bulbs can I use that will correct this issue?

2. The key does nothing. Car will run with it in off position. It's original to the car. Can this be rebuilt and who does this type of work, is it worth keeping original? Or is a repro better?

3. The nickel plating on the radiator and headlights is dull. What can be used to polish this with out buffing through the plating?

4. The horn works but doesn't always give the full ahooga. Is there a cleanup trick for this to get it to work smoothly?


I may have more question but that's all I can think of right now.

Thanks
Vinnie
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:22 PM   #2
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Welcome and congrats on the car.

1) Sounds like you have a short as those are the correct bulbs for these cars.

2) You can get the popout rebuilt, look at the stickies at the top of the page.

3) If I remember right the radiator shroud is chrome but I could be wrong

4) sounds like a good cleaning and lube is order.

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Old 09-24-2017, 07:35 PM   #3
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

You may have the wrong headlight bulbs, the early cars used 3-21 candle power.
If the ignition switch is original you need to push it in to turn it off.

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Old 09-24-2017, 07:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

I have an Oct 28 Fordor and it has the original nickle plating. The shroud is nickle plated. Mine is a little dull too but not nearly as bad as the bumpers. I would like to know what to polish the nickle with too. Ford used to sell a nickle polish but I have never actually seen a can. I only get a great sound from my horn after the car has been running for awhile. I think starting drains the battery a little and the horn sort of coughs initially. Getting the popout rebuilt is a good idea but not cheap. Mine was missing so i bought a rebuilt one. Good luck, it is great to have an original or mostly original car. Unfortunately the original paint color on mine was changed.
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:39 PM   #5
Marshall V. Daut
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

1) "1930artdeco" is right: this is the correct bulb for brighter lights. I suspect the connections at the base of the headlight are shorting out. Remove one at a time until you find the wire that is touching the metal headlight shell.
2) Turn the key to the left, remove the key and push the cylinder in. That will shut the engine off. Original equipment is a pop-out switch that can only be turned off when pushed in. When you insert the key and turn it to the right ("on"), the cylinder will pop back out. This was Ford's "theft-proof" ignition design.
3) Passenger car radiator shells were nickel plated in 1928-29. The only cure for a faded one is to have the shell re-plated.
4) Put a drop or two of 3-in-1 oil on the two felt pads on either side of the armature. The back cover has to be removed to do this. Polish the armature with 220 grit paper as it revolves. Do not overtighten the rear cover screw or it will distort the armature frame and affect horn operation. Just tighten it enough so that the cover is not loose. Then adjust the horn operation via the slotted bolt sticking out of the back cover: screwing inwards tightens things up, screw it out a notch at a time loosens things up. Adjust it with the engine revved up steadily to about 4-6 amps on the ammeter = normal driving RPMs. Adjusting with the engine off and not charging will give you a false operation range. It's a rare horn that operates properly with the motor stopped. Good grounding is imperative!
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Old 09-24-2017, 07:40 PM   #6
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Two postings appeared while I was typing my reply (typical!). 'Sorry for the repetition of information.
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Old 09-24-2017, 08:54 PM   #7
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

You could try Simichrome on the nickle. I've had good luck with it on small nickle pieces.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Thanks all. I will try some of the above suggestions and let you know. The car was built in June 1928, if that makes a difference.
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Old 09-25-2017, 06:39 AM   #9
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

If original then I suspect it would have a generator and this could need adjusting. Both the spark and the horn could be put to a lack of current, I know I can't use my horn and lights at the same time.
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Old 09-25-2017, 03:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

I had the same issue of shorting in my cowling lights. The spring was allowing the connector ends to touch the shell that the bulb fit into. I replaced the spring and found the tabs of the spacer had broken (replaced those also). Lights work fine now. Please check for all ground connections, as they seem to corrode and separate fastest.

Corrosion and grounding will be the culprit for the horn. I've been reading old posts and found good info and have fixed my own horn issue without replacing the original.
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Old 09-25-2017, 04:41 PM   #11
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

No matter which bulbs you put in, the higher candlepower bulbs won't short out your wiring and cause the engine to sputter and die. A dead short will cause that if you don't have an in-line fuse, or if you do have one, it might be disabled by a jumper wire across it if it once blew.

As others have said, bad light sockets WILL cause this, and you should look for that as the cause.

Also, if your car is so original that it has no fuse, you should definitely get one before you mess up the wiring in the car and the headlight switch. Eventually the wires will act as a fuse and that is generally not pretty.

If you do have a fuse and it is disabled because it already blew, then you should fix that too.

Welcome to the forum, bu the way.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:05 PM   #12
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

It is a generator.

Here are some additional pics.
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File Type: jpg IMG_5108.jpg (79.0 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5096.jpg (72.3 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5224.jpg (49.0 KB, 104 views)
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:40 PM   #13
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

The computer I am viewing your pictures on won't let me enlarge them, but next to the starter it does appear that you have the standard fuse holder. The fact that your short in the lighting circuit did not blow the fuse, but instead shut down the operation of the car suggests that a blown fuse has been overridden with something such as a jumper wire.

That is only based on the description of the issue as I read it.
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Old 09-25-2017, 07:42 PM   #14
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Good to see such a nice correct 1928 with all the right parts under the hood.
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Old 09-25-2017, 08:38 PM   #15
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicbox51 View Post
The computer I am viewing your pictures on won't let me enlarge them, but next to the starter it does appear that you have the standard fuse holder. The fact that your short in the lighting circuit did not blow the fuse, but instead shut down the operation of the car suggests that a blown fuse has been overridden with something such as a jumper wire.

That is only based on the description of the issue as I read it.
The fuse above the starter functions as I could not start the car until I replaced it (fuse was blown when I got it). Have not had a problem with it since.

The car doesn't stall but sputters and clearly doesn't want to run correctly when the headlights are on. I will hopefully get to look at it this weekend and take some of these suggestions.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:32 PM   #16
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Update on question 2... The key works, I didn't know you had to push it in to turn the car off (rookie mistake). It is a little tight to turn and push in. It does not spring out quickly when I turn it back to the ON position. I had to help it a little.

I was think about spraying a little graphite in it, would that hurt it?
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:56 PM   #17
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Don't use WD-40 on the pop out! Go to the stickies at the top of the page and look for the guy who rebuilds the pop outs, and give him a call.

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Old 09-28-2017, 10:16 PM   #18
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

It looks like you have an early banana type ignition cable. Take Tom's advice and let an expert repair it.
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Old 09-29-2017, 10:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieCap View Post
Hello,

The car is all original (not modified), so still 6 volt, and all the '28 stuff still correct.

Hopefully you guys can answer some questions for me:

1. I just replaced the headlight bulbs with 2 Bulb Type - 6 Volt - Double Contact - 32-50 Candle Power. Now when I turn on the headlights the ammeter pegs discharge and the car will sputter and not want to run. What bulbs can I use that will correct this issue?

You CAN use those bulbs, there is no bulb that will "correct you problem" That is elsewhere

2. The key does nothing. Car will run with it in off position. It's original to the car. Can this be rebuilt and who does this type of work, is it worth keeping original? Or is a repro better?

YES you can rebuild that, check the sticky above for pop out rebuilders

3. The nickel plating on the radiator and headlights is dull. What can be used to polish this with out buffing through the plating?

Use can use "Simichrome" to polish and it will work fine or any good quality METAL Polish will also work

4. The horn works but doesn't always give the full ahooga. Is there a cleanup trick for this to get it to work smoothly?

NOPE,,,,that is I am sure a ground issue BUT i would check the winding that are clean, make sure its oiled, and give an overall check to it, Then put it on the bench and attach to a 6volt battery to check it spins good and sound good. Put it back on the car and add an additional GROUND..that should help.

SEE the above notes.. you seem to have an overall ground problem...nothing major or a short, Start at the battery and use the wiring diagram and follow it step by step and check everything and every connection and the battery post connections as well, make sure they are clean and tight.
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Old 09-29-2017, 11:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: New 28 Ford, have some questons

Dick is the pop out expert: mbcrabtree@aol.com He is also on ebay as dikc. Great guy too.

Taking out/installing the popout is a PITA. A hint: take out distributor and the popout head bolt when removing the popout. To install first install in dash and then re-install the distributor and head bolt. My head bolt was loose so I screwed it out of the block and it was the last thing to be installed. The ignition cable is hard to handle as it is so stiff.

This PITA is one reason so many Model As don't have an original popout.

I see that you have the early starter and starter switch. You most likely have the multi-disc clutch and flywheel as well.

You have a powerhouse generator. Your radiator cowl is not the really early 28 however. The early 28s have a different type of lacing like a model T.

Just sold my early 28 roadster pickup. Early 28s are unique to anything after mid 28. do you have the left side ebrake handle?

The horn works but doesn't always give the full ahooga. Is there a cleanup trick for this to get it to work smoothly?
good advice: "Put a drop or two of 3-in-1 oil on the two felt pads on either side of the armature. The back cover has to be removed to do this. Polish the armature with 220 grit paper as it revolves. Do not overtighten the rear cover screw or it will distort the armature frame and affect horn operation. Just tighten it enough so that the cover is not loose. Then adjust the horn operation via the slotted bolt sticking out of the back cover: screwing inwards tightens things up, screw it out a notch at a time loosens things up. Adjust it with the engine revved up steadily to about 4-6 amps on the ammeter = normal driving RPMs. Adjusting with the engine off and not charging will give you a false operation range. It's a rare horn that operates properly with the motor stopped. Good grounding is imperative!"

I would sand the horn commutator with 400 grit lightly as it is likely tarnished. At one time I had a dozen original horns of all makes: https://sites.google.com/site/mrtexa...s/home/idhorns

Another hint is to replace the fan with one of the newer aluminum reproductions. You don't want the fan to come loose and destroy your radiator and hood. This has happened to many Model As with original fans. The originals are an accident waiting to happen. Some of the older repros aren't so great either.

Email me if you want an extensive listing of early 28 differences. A forum member has an excellent write up I can send you.
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