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Old 01-01-2016, 02:33 PM   #1
99ZoomR
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Default Timing gear screw up...

Ok guys. I think I'm gonna be kicking myself this year for making a poor repair decision (what's new?). My old timing gear gave up on me last fall, so I replaced it with a new aluminum gear. After removing the timing gear and looking at what would be involved in removing the crank gear, I decided to just replace the timing gear and hope it would work out okay. I was afraid at the time that I'd do more damage trying to pull the crank gear than leaving it alone. It didn't look too bad to me at the time, but now I think leaving it on might have been a mistake. Although my car has been running great since I replaced the timing gear, I've noticed some very minute aluminum particles in my oil. It had a bit of a silver sheen to it. I've changed the oil and driven about 20 miles so far. The oil doesn't seem to be getting contaminated like it was before, but I'm afraid it may get worse before getting better. I've posted pics of what I started with and a pic of the aluminum gear I took before the last oil change. Other than some slight scuffing on the gears, it doesn't look as bad as I thought it might. I'll let y'all know if I get to pull things apart this Spring, or if it miraculously "wears in"...
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:45 PM   #2
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

I agree and would change the crank gear ASAP. The cam gear should still be OK.
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Old 01-01-2016, 02:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Thanks guys! If temps stay warm enough it will be a good winter project. My main concern is pulling the crank gear off without damaging the crank. Thanks again. Len
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:00 PM   #4
Tom Wesenberg
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Yes, they can be tough. I had the crank out of the engine and had to use a large hydraulic press and could barely get them off on the few I've done.
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

After changing the crank gear, run a piece of newspaper between the gears and rotate the engine by hand. If it cuts the paper, you don't have enough clearance between the gears. Remember when you remove shims from main bearings to snug clearance you may be moving crank up a bit closer to cam. Cam gears also at one time came in std., .005+, and .010+ sizes. Good luck
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Old 01-01-2016, 03:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Both gears are TOAST!!!!!
Don't forget that now you have all of that scuffed material that came off those gears circulating through the engine.
That should do wonders for long life.
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:33 PM   #7
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Yep. She won't be running again until both gears are replaced, oil is changed, and it's warm enough to work out in my unheated garage...
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Old 01-01-2016, 05:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

I "might" look at it this way: The initial "lapping in" from rough teeth is done & the shiny particles are getting LESS, so I "might" just leave it ALONE & see what happens.
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Old 01-01-2016, 06:41 PM   #9
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Sorry guys but here is the guy that needs some A education again. If he decides to pull the crank gear, how would he go about it? Would he have to pull he engine and take the crank out and do like Tom said he did or is there a way to do it with the engine and crank in the rig? If so what do you need to do it? Again just looking for some future help in case I may need to do this in the future.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred K-OR View Post
Sorry guys but here is the guy that needs some A education again. If he decides to pull the crank gear, how would he go about it? Would he have to pull he engine and take the crank out and do like Tom said he did or is there a way to do it with the engine and crank in the rig? If so what do you need to do it? Again just looking for some future help in case I may need to do this in the future.
1- There are tools and procedures for pulling the crank
gear in the car. Bad scene in this case.
2- He should pull the engine in order to COMPLETELY
clean the insides. Remember, all of that crap that
came off those gears is just like putting sand in the
engine. You can clean it now or later when the engine
pukes 100 miles from home.
3- With the engine out, there is a simple puller that will
get the gear off the crank. They can be rented or
sometimes borrowed from a local hot rodder or racer.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:21 PM   #11
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

I don't know, so I am asking....Aluminum particles are soft and small, what kind of problem could they cause in an engine? If he changes the oil very frequently in this burn in situation would not most of them come out in the oil pan?

I recently replaced my time gear with a bronze one, I considered Aluminum but chose Bronze because of durability. Maybe I should Have Chosen the original material to prevent harmful metal particles from circulating around My engine. My crank gear seem to be in good shape so I didn't even try to replace it.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

I replaced both gears in my engine about 3 years ago. The crank gear can be removed with a good puller by removing the hood, front cover and radiator, loosening the motor mounts and jacking up the engine to clear the front cross member. When I replaced to crank gear I warmed it up to about 300 degrees and it slipped right on when it cooled it was TITE.
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Old 01-01-2016, 07:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

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Originally Posted by machineman64 View Post
I replaced both gears in my engine about 3 years ago. The crank gear can be removed with a good puller by removing the hood, front cover and radiator, loosening the motor mounts and jacking up the engine to clear the front cross member. When I replaced to crank gear I warmed it up to about 300 degrees and it slipped right on when it cooled it was TITE.
That is wonderful news about heating it and It slipped off! 300 degress, did you use just a propane torch?
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

99ZoomR,
I know the purists don't like them but an oil filter would be your friend here. It would quickly remove those metal flakes from the oil or even better, prevented them from getting in there in the first place. I'd replace at least the crank shaft gear, flush the motor and fit an oil filter and you you should be good depending on the Al timing gear which will need a close inspection by a knowledgeable person.
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:13 PM   #15
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

"I don't know, so I am asking....Aluminum particles are soft and small, what kind of problem could they cause in an engine? If he changes the oil very frequently in this burn in situation would not most of them come out in the oil pan?"

Aluminum is considerably harder than babbit. Not as hard as sand but just as destructive.
Changing oil will NOT flush it out sufficiently.
There are some things that just can not be done by Mickey Mouse methods.
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
"I don't know, so I am asking....Aluminum particles are soft and small, what kind of problem could they cause in an engine? If he changes the oil very frequently in this burn in situation would not most of them come out in the oil pan?"

Aluminum is considerably harder than babbit. Not as hard as sand but just as destructive.
Changing oil will NOT flush it out sufficiently.
There are some things that just can not be done by Mickey Mouse methods.
What I find amazing is that when I had to replace my Time Gear, I asked a million questions on this board about timing gear materials from the original, to super hard original type material to aluminum and bronze too. No mention was ever made by manufacturers and by anyone this board about the danger of using anything other than the original :fiber" material because it could introduce dangerous particles that could wear away engine bearings. The only caution that was made was that it could be noisy.
I never would have chosen a Bronze time gear if I had know of the Dangers!
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Frank,
Read my post carefully I used a puller to remove the gear however a little heat with a propane torch wouldn't hurt and may help, warmed the gear to put it on, used the kitchen stove for heat source.
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

Frank seriously now the owner is the one responsible for the 'dangerous' situation by his own admission. This has nothing to do with the inherent benefits of an aluminum or bronze timing gear...in competent hands
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Old 01-01-2016, 08:44 PM   #19
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Default Re: Timing gear screw up...

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Originally Posted by tbirdtbird View Post
Frank seriously now the owner is the one responsible for the 'dangerous' situation by his own admission. This has nothing to do with the inherent benefits of an aluminum or bronze timing gear...in competent hands
Well, I never would have used anything but original type material on my replacement, if I had even the slightest idea that metal particles could be introduced into my engine. I remember asking, Why did Ford use the Baklite time gear instead of a metal...I got answers like he was cheap! When In reality,,,The original gear material is safe because it does not really grind off particles, that probably would not damage the engine anyway, but only breaks in case of failure and ends up in the oil pan.
My crankshaft gear looked very sound...you are saying that with a decent crank gear the time gear should not be grinding particles off?
I could just scream...As Captain Binghampton used to say!
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:00 PM   #20
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Some people need to work on their reading comprehension and memory skills.
Now, I remember why I had you on my IGNORE list! Back On it you Go!
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