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02-27-2020, 12:43 PM | #1 |
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1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I have a 1935 Ford Convertible Sedan that is in need of a top. I have the iron framework that appears intact. The prior owner appears to have restored the iron but I know I am missing pieces I have to find before I can have the canvas work done.
I have been getting great information from multiple sources to help me figure out what is needed. But I have not found any exploded diagram to help me put the pieces together. It was suggested to me by Karl at Wescotts that it would be a good idea to start a thread of "my journey" with pictures and videos for future generations. It should be noted though, I am not doing a frame off restoration. My goal is to build a driver. That being said, I might use alternative methods that make the top functional but not "authentic". I am not an expert and lots of you have experience and suggestions so please feel free to add to this story. I will add pictures I have already collected from some of you (thanks a bunch). I'll start with a couple of videos showing my starting point. https://youtu.be/fz-aGL-NtUQ - video of the driver side iron framework https://youtu.be/B-QOgMQuOIA - video of the passenger iron framework |
02-27-2020, 12:56 PM | #2 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I would suggest you contact Jon Anderson in PA he is in the V8 Roster of members.
For Cabriolets: early 35 the windshield frame pins for the top attachment are straight and for the later cars they are angled. The chrome pockets for the pins attached into the front header are also different. I have been told the front and rear wood headers also differ early to late. There are three rubber plugs in the large holes in the header metal pan and the rib in the pan fits into a rubber strip that is attached to the top of windshield frame recess. The photo below shows 34 top hardware. Note the pins are straight and the appearance of the pockets, same appearance as 35. The skirtless thumb screw is correct for 35. Last edited by Terry,OH; 02-27-2020 at 02:18 PM. |
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02-27-2020, 01:23 PM | #3 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
First off i know I will need the wood header but I did not know what it looked like. I did learn the Convertible Sedan and Cabriolet have the same wood header. I've included a picture for those like me that never saw one before.
These wood bows are available at Wescott's and also Oak Bows. But I will need to allow plenty of time to get them since they are custom made. Then I also learned there is a tin stripe that fits under the wood between and the top of the windshield. It looks like this: The folks at Oak Bow says they have them in stock. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:32 PM. Reason: replace http links to pictures with attachments instead |
02-27-2020, 01:34 PM | #4 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I also learned I will need a rear wood bow in the back. In the video you can see the iron with multiple holes in it to mount the wood. Westcott's and Oak Bows both have these as well, but I need to allow plenty of time. Here is a good picture that shows what the interior will look like (some day).
What I am still investigating are the top wood side pieces. as well as some pads. No pictures on that yet. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:34 PM. Reason: replaced https links with attachments |
02-27-2020, 01:55 PM | #5 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I learned that the dowels on the top of the windshield were done two different ways. The dowel could be vertically up and down relative to the body or it could be angled in line with the windshield. If I were to buy the straight dowels, they would attach to the windshield and be at an angle, the angle of the windshield. If I were to buy the angled dowels, after mounting them to the windshield they would be vertical in relation to the body. Hopefully that makes sense to those interested.
My dowels appear to be the angled dowels because the dowel is vertical in relation to the body. This is important because I will need the correct brackets that fit into the wood header. Last edited by rbassemir; 03-01-2020 at 12:35 PM. Reason: replace http links to pictures with attachments instead |
02-27-2020, 03:15 PM | #6 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
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With respect, the skirt-less T-shaped thumb screws were used only on early '35-'36 open cars. They were replaced with round-headed thumb screws (with cross hatched perimeters), with part numbers 48-743188 and 48-747156. They initially had relatively small diameter heads which were subsequently increased as a running change (evidently without a change in part numbers) to the size of the thumb screws in the photo in #4 above. I don't recall the small head version ever being reproduced, unlike the large head version shown in that photo. Last edited by DavidG; 02-27-2020 at 04:12 PM. |
02-27-2020, 04:03 PM | #7 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Carpenter makes both a small and a large version knurled knob. I would need David or Don R to step in to say they are "correct".
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02-27-2020, 04:21 PM | #8 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Karl,
I have originals of both versions, but they are 1,600 miles distant. From memory and the illustrations in the Hardware and Trimming Supplies catalog, those in your photo look to be pretty accurate. A quibble would be that on the originals the cross hatching does not come all the way out to the outer edge (nor to the inner edge). |
02-27-2020, 05:08 PM | #9 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
here are a pair of originals.
Last edited by carolina-bob; 02-27-2020 at 05:09 PM. Reason: I haven't gotten how to post pics down yet sorry |
02-27-2020, 06:48 PM | #10 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Here's a list of the correct thumb screws for the convertible sedan.
48-747154 (basically a 48-747156 thumb with staked washer) used on the forward hinge of the folding top iron ass'y(2) 48-747156 used to clamp top iron ass'y to top of center pillar(2) 48-747189 used to clamp bottom of center pillar(2) 48-743188 used on windshield header dowel(2) and on rear top clamping bracket(2) Here's a drawing from The BFRC Archives of the correct thumb screws for the convertible sedan. |
02-27-2020, 07:14 PM | #11 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Rick, Keep in mind that the slanted vs vertical dowels only apply to cabriolets (early vs later) By the time that the convertible sedans were introduced in April 1935 all dowels were vertical.
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02-27-2020, 08:28 PM | #12 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Don,
Thanks for the drawing and elaboration. Given my advanced age, I took comfort that my recollection of the cross hatching not extending to the edges was accurate. However, I did forget about the crown. Like so many of the surviving original drawings, we are left guessing as to what were the four changes made. Likely one was the diameter change, but one (not many) wonders about the other three. |
02-28-2020, 07:58 AM | #13 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I'll try this again. If it doesn't work this time I'll quit.
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02-28-2020, 08:40 AM | #14 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I too will be watching this thread with interest as I have a very solid & complete 36 CS I am in reassembling as a nice driver. I have a very nice repo. Wooden header as well as my nice original (neither for sale sorry). I am struggling to load pics on the barn with my new IPhone. Would like to contribute to this thread as much as I can so all of us convertible sedan owners cam benefit.
Cheers Tony |
02-29-2020, 09:21 AM | #15 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Don,
I've had some fellow hobbyists question the drawing from the BFRC and the more I think about it, I share their questions. I have original knobs as do others and of my and some others' knobs, none have a domed outer surface; all of them are flat. While not a statistically valid sample size, twenty or so knobs cannot be completely ignored nor are they likely to be old reproductions. I realize that you are only sharing what is on a eighty-five year old drawing not of your making. So, the question is: what has been your own experience with original knobs? Two others are: what's a staked washer in this application if you know? and what do you think was the timing of the switch to the larger diameter knobs? Thanks. Dave |
02-29-2020, 09:55 AM | #16 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I too am following this thread and have been talking to Rich. Does anyone know if superior car parts in Illinois is still operating? They have the header tin plate listed on their website, but so far I haven’t been able to make contact with them. I am currently do a body off frame restoration of my RHD 35 cs.
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02-29-2020, 10:33 AM | #17 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Dave, here is the drawing of the 48-747154 thumb screw. Notice that is shows a flat thumb screw and a staked washer. My guess is that there may have been several suppliers of thumb screws. Ford also may have taken some liberties with these drawings. Next trip to the Archives I will see if there are additional drawings on file with earlier dates that may show an evolution of design.
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02-29-2020, 11:11 AM | #18 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Great, Don, thanks!
It is as I suspected and a great way to prevent the washer from becoming misplaced. My convertible sedan experience is limited to a '35, which I sent back from Argentina, and did not keep very long and a '39, which I restored, but its knobs were different, of course. The original knobs that I have all are survivors from the six '35 and '36 phaetons and roadsters I've had over the years. Last edited by DavidG; 02-29-2020 at 12:00 PM. |
02-29-2020, 11:42 AM | #19 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Dave, Its interesting that 35 Body Parts Lists indicate a 48-715000 thumb screw for the top clamping brackets on both Roadsters and Phaetons. However, by 1936, they were using the 48-743188 thumb screw. I have been unable to find a drawing of the 48-715000 thumb screw to see what the difference was.
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02-29-2020, 12:05 PM | #20 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Could it be the elusive small diameter version? Perhaps, but without the drawing that cannot be assumed out of hand. Maybe we can back into the answer by comparing the lengths of the threaded portions of the originals against those where the drawings have survived. I'll add it to my late-April to-do list.
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03-01-2020, 12:24 PM | #21 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Folks, thanks for sharing photos and comments so far. I will revisit my earlier posts and edit my inserted photos to attachments. The links I used to the photos might not always exist so I think I should use attachments from now on.
I have spoke with Richard at Oak Bows (717-264-2602) and he can supply the oak header, the rear bow, and the tin plate. However the wood is not a stocked item and an order will take time. I also spoke with Karl at Wescott's and they can supply the wood header and rear bow as well. His supplier does not work every month so the wood pieces might not be "in stock" and like Oak Bows will take time. Both Karl and Richard were helpful in answering my newbie questions. Don Rogers also passed on the name of another gentleman he met at Hersey. His name was Kurt and he can also make a tin plate for me. So there are still places to find the tin plate (which had me worried at first). It was good to learn those large holes in the tin plate were for a rubber plug. Now I have to find a place to source the rubber plug. My plan is to continue to post pictures as my top comes together. Keep the advice and comments coming. There are several of us working on the same topic and we are regularly sharing notes. |
03-03-2020, 01:04 PM | #22 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
For those looking for top rubber parts for the top (like me) I found a page in the Bob Drake catalog (page 506 in their Cat30 pdf file) that is a great illustration of the rubber parts I need. Very helpful for this newbie to visually see what is needed and where it goes.
Note however, this is their online 2016 catalog so prices and availability are subject to change. |
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03-03-2020, 01:09 PM | #23 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Just another couple of videos showing what I have to work with regarding the wood in the back of the car. If anyone is missing this wood, they might find this helpful. Looks to me like there are 5 pieces of wood that make up the wood that would be used to attach the top.
https://youtu.be/LPe-Y0GW5qo https://youtu.be/JqHHtesPTiw |
04-03-2020, 02:44 PM | #24 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I'm continuing to work on the convertible top. With the help of others I found where some of the rubber pads go on the frame iron. The top and bottom of the center posts is pretty obvious but the smaller 1 inch square pads were a little harder. I am including some photos so there is a record here on the forum in case someone out there wants to know. I found those square pads were held in place with 6-32 bolt (3/8 inch) and threaded right into the frame iron.
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05-27-2020, 08:06 PM | #25 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I got a wood header from Oak Bows quicker than I expected (maybe 4 weeks, I lost track of time during this epidemic lock down). It looks great. I put on the top iron brackets in the wood and was pleased to find Oak Bows did some sort of nut insert in the wood to accept my 1/4-20 machine screws. I thought I would need some sort of T-nut but I did not need them.
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05-28-2020, 12:30 PM | #26 | |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
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05-28-2020, 01:02 PM | #27 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
do not know of the sequence and time frame of being built but used to own body number #454 It is presently being restored as I understand. kerk
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06-07-2020, 03:36 PM | #28 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I test fit the oak header and used clamps to position the brackets for the post. This worked well for my set up. I still need to put on the tin plate and rubber bmpers.
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06-07-2020, 03:53 PM | #29 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
Today I test fit the rear wood to the top irons. The shape of the bow and the shape of the irons don't match perfectly. Although I might be able to draw the iron to the curve of the wood with screws, I am a little reluctant to put that strain on the bow. It is not way off. The pictures show how close of a match there is.
I thought I would shave the oak bow a little for a closer fit. I think it would be easier to shape the bow then trying to bend the irons to match the wood. Have any of you had to do something similar? |
06-07-2020, 05:09 PM | #30 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
My '36 phaeton had the same gap on both sides between the iron and the wood. I showed it to a nearby master woodworker, and he said that he could fill the gap with wood and the seam would not show. And he did.
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06-11-2020, 02:26 PM | #31 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I am thrilled to report the rear bow is installed without any mods to the oak bow. I put some clamps on to draw in the iron and used a 1/4-20 screw with a T nut insert in the center hole. Then used #12 one inch wood screws in the remaining holes. I also learned I should have a flat 1 7/8” wide x 38” long. 13 gauge steel on the underside of the bow where the window snaps will fit.
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07-07-2020, 10:36 PM | #32 |
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Re: 1935 Convertible Sedan top restoration story
I learned about tin strips that go on the 3 iron cross pieces from another 35 convertible sedan owner (Peter F). From what I understand they hold the top padding in place. This was new news to me, I had not idea. Peter sent me an extra one he had and from that I made 5 more. However I used aluminum from Lowes. I found I had tapped holes already in the iron cross overs. I had to clear the threads with a tap and a 6-32 bolt fit right in. I'll attach some photos of the original tin and my aluminum replacement installed on one of the cross members.
I was also in need of a piece of rubber on my irons. It is kind of hard to describe in words so I am including a picture. Apparently I am told Ford had rubber that was fused in the two holes on this iron. Some folks found rubber tubing just the right size. What I did instead was to use heat shrink tubing. Two layers of 3/4 inch tubing went on easily, shrank around the iron and provides the function of the original rubber. I have included a picture of that as well which might help explain my solution. |
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