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Old 11-15-2020, 05:07 PM   #1
Lost and Profound
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Default Still wont start

So doing a bit more work on the 53 Lincoln. Car has been sitting for 20+ years, cleaned cables, new battery, car now turns over. I think its a normal speed for a 6v, but no expert on that, boosted with a loose 12v battery was a bit faster but not a huge amount.
No spark. New points and condenser, now have spark.
Carburetor stuck, seafoam outside and in bores, let sit carb and choke now move freely.
Unhooked fuel line as didnt want to suck in whatever sludge is in tank, spray fuel from bottle down carb. Doesnt fire, not even a hint of it.
Pulled out one of the plugs and hooked back to wire just to make sure spark was getting through and it is. There is compression coming out of the hole, not sure what the compression ration is one this engine, seemed like a fair amount but not as much as some higher compression engines Im more familiar with.
Any ideas what to do/check next ?
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Old 11-15-2020, 05:35 PM   #2
Dobie Gillis
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Default Re: Still wont start

Compression spec is 8:1. Try starting fluid.
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Old 11-15-2020, 05:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: Still wont start

Other than making sure the battery is fully charged, I think you've covered all of the bases. As long as you're not flooding it, you might try pulling some of the plugs and putting a bit of gas directly into the cylinders. you have fuel, ignition, and air, it should do something.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Still wont start

As already mentioned, it takes 3 things to make it run, compression, fuel and ignition. Is the spark plug wiring correct? Is the cam timing correct? Do you actually have spark at the spark plug? Is it possible you have a bunch of stuck open valves? If you have any compression at all, you should at least get a pop out of it when cranking.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Still wont start

Just so you know, a good 6-volt electrical system and fully charged battery will crank an engine just as fast as a good 12-volt system.
If the engine is cranking slowly, it's a good chance the engine won't start. Need battery to have a good charge and make sure cable connections at both ends are clean (no rust, no battery acid corrosion, no grease or oil). On Y-block engines, a big problem could be with the positive ground battery cable connection to the engine. If oil has seeped between the cable terminal and engine block, the surfaces need to be cleaned with solvent and fine sandpaper to remove rust. I always add large "star-washers" to the batter-to-engine ground cable. BTW, be sure you have cables connected properly. All pre-1956 Fomoco products have a 6-volt, POSITIVE ground.
If you have your battery connected backward, you need to reverse the cables and then re-polarize the generator.
If battery ground is not the problem, you may have a fuel problem. First, check to see if you are flooding the engine. Look down the carb throat and see if gas is running down on the valve base. If so remove carb and check float operation and adjust in accordance with the shop manual or last carb rebuild kit instructions. The latter would be preferred, since the kits have different inlet needle/seats.
I assume you have a bottle of gasoline feeding into the carb since the fuel inlet line is disconnected, right? If so, that bottle must be elevated to a height above the normal carb float stop. The carb doesn't suck fuel in, it gets pushed in by the fuel pump, which is now disconnected, so let gravity do the work while using the temporary bottle.
Crank your engine till the TDC timing mark on the crankshaft damper aligns with the pointer. Now pop the distributor cap and verify the rotor is pointing at number one spark plug. If it is NOT, there's your problem. Engine will always crank slow if timing is too far off. This may require further investigation to see if timing chain is too worn and has loosened up enough to slip a tooth on the sprocket. If so, you may need timing chain & sprocket replacement.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:48 PM   #6
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Thanks for the replies so far. I thought about valves but dismissed it as it is not backfiring or even trying to fire at all.
When i put the new battery in I cleaned the ground cable end at the engine as well as put new terminals on the battery end, there was green fuzzy living on them, but wire brushed and brake cleaner until clean. The cables are not heating up as its cranking.
That being said it is not cranking as fast as a 12v system, but I had understood that the 6v did not, wouldnt be the first time I was wrong in my life though.
When I pulled the plug out I hooked it back up to the wire and watched it spark as it was cranked over, it also didnt smell like fuel, even though I have sprayed fuel down venturi.
Not a big fan of starting fluid, but it may be worth a try in this case. The motor ran when it was driven into the garage and parked, so unless the timing chain jumped when it was shut off, but at this point probably best not to rule it out, although I thought it should still backfire if the timing was out.
And yall say new cars are complicated.. lol
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:55 PM   #7
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Post Re: Still wont start

How are you introducing fresh fuel into the carb? The bowl needs to be primed so as it cranks it can take what is needed.

If no fuel smell on a pulled plug, no fuel.
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Still wont start

with fuel from a smaller container with a controllable flow, down the venturi
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Old 11-16-2020, 03:41 AM   #9
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Post Re: Still wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost and Profound View Post

... with fuel from a smaller container with a controllable flow, down the venturi
It needs (IMO) to have the fuel introduced via the carb by supplying a fuel source through the pump to fill the bowl(s). If you are concerned with bad fuel in the tank, you need to devise a portable fuel source to the pump. And you have to be careful here. Once fuel is introduced and still no start you will have to go through a diagnostic routine.

Dry starting an engine that has set that long can cause damage.
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Old 11-16-2020, 07:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Still wont start

Might try removing all plugs and putting a squirt or 2 of oil in each cyl, replace the plugs and give it a taste of gas down the carb, good charged battery, it should go.
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Old 11-16-2020, 10:39 AM   #11
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Default Re: Still wont start

if you put your location in your profile you may have someone close.if someone is close may offer to come look and help.all the suggestions in the world are no substitute for a person with knowledge eyeballing it.they are pretty simple engines as most of that era.good luck
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Old 11-16-2020, 12:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Still wont start

If the car has been sitting for 20 years without being run, then a lot could be bad with the fuel, fuel lines, fuel pump and carburetor. Especially if it sat all that time with gas with ethanol in it.
Your getting a lot of good advice here. If you get to the point where the carb needs work, I have a restored '53 Lincoln carb for sale in the Late V8 swap meet section.

Sal
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Still wont start

Sounds like you either have no gas going into the intake, or it has jumped time.
Check timing first as I described in previous reply.
For the fuel system, it seems to me you are trying to put the cart before the horse.
I would first drain gas tank and allow to air out until completely dry by laying it upside down in the sunlight over a couple of days (always put back in the garage during evening when temperature changes so that it will not collect condensation inside the tank).
Then seal the inside of the tank with gas tank sealer and allow to dry over several days. You may need to punch out the copper sock on the end of the pick-up tube (or keep a maintained compressed air flowing into the tube).
While the tank is drying, inspect exterior of gas line under the car. If it is badly rusted, replace the line with new metal tubing and brass compression couplings.
Remove fuel pump. Clean, test and repair or replace as needed.
Remove and blow out the carburator inlet tubing with compressed air and re-install or optionally replace it with new metal tubing.
After gas tank is dry, pour some gas in it and see if gas is draining out of the pick-up fitting at the front of the tank. If so, tank is ready to install. If not, you need to punch out the pick-up tube copper sock. Test again. Now you should be getting gas flowing out of the tank.
After tank is installed, fill it with about five gallons of gas. Go up to the flexible hose at the fuel pump, disconnect it and prime the fuel line from the fuel pump to gas tank till the tubing is full, then re-connect to the fuel pump. Next, prime the carburator fuel inline tubing with gas. Priming can be done using a small funnel and rubber hose attaching end of funnel to metal tubing.
Hopefully, you have a clear inline fuel filter in the line between pump and carb so you can see if gas is filling into the filter. You can also use a MityVac to suck the gas up from the tank to the carb. Reconnect fuel line to carb.
Next step is to prime carb float bowl. I dunno how to do it on a teapot style carb, but Sal Cicala can give you direction here.
Once all that is done and you know that your timing is right, the engine should start.
You may need to stomp the gas pedal down once to introduce a shot into the venturis before attempting to start. Make sure you have some choke on the carb too at first.
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Old 11-16-2020, 09:44 PM   #14
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Default Re: Still wont start

You could also remove the tank and put some old nuts and bolts in it, then agitate it and roll it around to knock any crud inside loose. Then rinse it out with gas or some other solvent. To add to what Dave said about lining the tank, if you do that be sure whatever you use does not block the tank vent if so equipped. If the vent gets blocked the engine will run until the fuel pump pulls a vacuum on the tank.
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Old 11-16-2020, 10:12 PM   #15
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Default Re: Still wont start

Might the carburetor have a clogged filter screen inside the fuel inlet fitting?
Similar to this one...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fuel inlet filter screen.jpg (45.7 KB, 17 views)
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:05 PM   #16
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Default Re: Still wont start

If your getting spark try to remove the spark plugs and squirt a small amount of gas in
each cylinder. Put the plugs back in and If there’s spark you will have some sort of combustion. If you do have combustion next look at the carburetor. Look into the carburetor and give it gas see if the jets are squirting fuel. If you don’t then you need to look at the carburetor, fuel lines etc.
A car sitting that long could have critter nesting in the engine. (It’s possible) but unlikely.
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Old 11-22-2020, 12:39 PM   #17
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Default Re: Still wont start

No surprise here. Engines that set 20-years have to have everything renewed that can deteriorate. Fuel goes to crap within a year so add 19 to that and that equals complete fuel system overhaul from tank to carburetor. I would pull all spark plugs and put oil in them then turn it over to hopefully loosen things up of crud and corrosion. Take compression tests with a pump up pressure tester. If all readings are at least 65 to 70 the you can proceed but it will likely need some MMO in the cylinders and gas tank for a while. If compression is low on any then it could have stuck rings or valves either of which are common after a long slumber.

You would be surprised how much deterioration can happen in 20-years. If mice can get in through an open draft tube then they will build nests in the engine. If it has a more closed system than at least that would be less of a possibility.
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Old 11-24-2020, 03:39 PM   #18
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Default Re: Still wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by ponymare View Post
Might try removing all plugs and putting a squirt or 2 of oil in each cyl, replace the plugs and give it a taste of gas down the carb, good charged battery, it should go.
Yes, good idea. If the cylinder walls are that dry, it may not have enough compression to fire off.
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Old 11-24-2020, 04:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Still wont start

A good friend owns a stock 54 Lincoln. Even with a new six volt battery it would not turn fast enough to start. He found that two six volt batteries would fit in the hole, so he has been using that for several years now. It starts very well with two wired as six volts, lots of amps.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Still wont start

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ole Don View Post
A good friend owns a stock 54 Lincoln. Even with a new six volt battery it would not turn fast enough to start. He found that two six volt batteries would fit in the hole, so he has been using that for several years now. It starts very well with two wired as six volts, lots of amps.
ALL the battery and starter cables need to be "0" / Zero gauge wire, not the smaller sizes, they won't carry enough current for the starter. Don't forget the Ground half of the starter circuit: bellhousing / engine block and any connections back to the Positive terminal of the battery.

IF turning the engine fast enough to get it to start easier is a problem... you can run the starter on 12 volts without affecting the rest of the car at all.

Assuming the car is still Positive ground... you can connect a second 6v battery in Series between the starter solenoid and starter. It will spin the starter with 12 volts, image 2 below. The extra battery will eventually need to be connected to a charger.

If your battery and starter cable connections on the starter solenoid are reversed from this diagram that's normal. Those two larger connections are interchangeable & reversible, image 3 below.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Battery Cables.jpg (32.8 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg 12v power, 6v car diagram.jpg (23.4 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg 6v starter-solenoid-only-diagram c.jpg (17.5 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-24-2020 at 05:49 PM.
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