Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Late V8 (1954+)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-23-2020, 06:47 PM   #1
zuburg
Senior Member
 
zuburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 200
Default Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

I am trying to re-assemble my 1956 after replacing the engine and transmission (removed the engine nearly 5 years ago). I am trying to get information about the different front engine mounts used on 292 Y-blocks as I am not sure if the one that was on the engine that was in the car when I bought it was a true mount for a Thunderbird (the engine was a 239 Y-block with a bunch of Thunderbird parts added on).

How many different front engine mounts were there (T-bird, passenger car, truck, ?) and were there differences in height? My engine looks high and tilted front to back. If I end up needing to replace the front engine mount, can it be done with the engine in the car? (Use hoist to lift engine slightly and replace?)

Also, I found a bolt that I tagged as going in the center hole on the left side of the mount. What is that for? Is it supposed to hold something there?
zuburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 07:35 PM   #2
dmsfrr
Senior Member
 
dmsfrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abq, NM
Posts: 2,651
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Photo one, the rubber parts for the front mounting pad on the crossmember.
The front mount brackets in photos 2 & 3 are similar but #3 with angled ridges may be more 'correct' for '55/'57 T-Birds.
It gives more clearance to the back side of their larger damper pulley, note the damage in photo two.
The odd middle hole on the left side is for the lower generator belt tension adjusting bracket.

IIRC, photo four is a front steady rest bracket for some(?) 'full-sized' cars and the last one was used in some trucks.

The (T-Bird) engine normally sits about an inch and a half lower in back than the front, but the top of the intake manif where the carb sits should be effectively level.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg front mount, rubber parts.jpg (37.3 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg front mount, grooves.jpg (37.2 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg 55-57 Bird front motor mount bracket.jpg (47.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg other - front motor mount.jpg (36.5 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg y-block alt front motor mount.jpg (43.9 KB, 17 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-30-2020 at 12:10 PM. Reason: typo in numbering photos 4 and 5
dmsfrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 11-23-2020, 07:59 PM   #3
zuburg
Senior Member
 
zuburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 200
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

I think I likely have one like your photo two, but not 100% sure. I’m going to search for some photos that I thought I took when I was painting parts like the mount. If I can get confirmation that the height is substantially higher than the T-bird one, I will know I may need to change it. The weird thing is, the one I have was on the car when I got it and it seemed to be OK (although it was on a 239 Y-block.) and the hood closed OK.
zuburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 08:16 PM   #4
55blacktie
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 85
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

The front mount can be removed/replaced without removing the engine. I would use blocks, or some other means, to support the front of the engine before removing the mount. If the engine moves while the mount is removed, it might be difficult to line up the replacement mount during installation.

You might be okay with the existing mount, if everything lines up, and there are no clearance issues. The rear/transmission mount will prevent the engine from tilting too far backwards.
55blacktie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 08:21 PM   #5
dmsfrr
Senior Member
 
dmsfrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abq, NM
Posts: 2,651
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

If you want to raise the front of the engine after it's installed you may need to slightly loosen the steady-rest rods on the sides of the block.
My '55 Bird also came with with an incorrect engine block and a front mounting bracket like photo two, I swapped it for the bracket in photo three. They seemed enough the same I didn't compare their height to each other.
I didn't measure the height of the one I took out.

-edit-
The overall height of the T-Bird style front bracket is about 6 inches. From its bottom surface to the center of the upper bolt holes is approx 5 & 1/2 inches, with the one on the passenger side about 1/8 inch higher than the one on the drivers side.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-30-2020 at 12:08 PM. Reason: added measurement info
dmsfrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2020, 08:50 PM   #6
zuburg
Senior Member
 
zuburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 200
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Great. That’s what I was looking for. I’ll proceed and see if I run into any problems.
zuburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 08:17 AM   #7
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,840
Post Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Find below some ILL of the BIRD mounting system. It is unique to BIRD and period LT only. The front bracket being discussed is the same for a BIRD or LT (B6C 6028-A).

A similar bracket was used on early FYB pass car (54-56) as an ENGINE STEADY REST and supplied no actual mounting strength.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Engine Mounts - BIRD _1.JPG (47.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Engine Mounts - BIRD _2.jpg (28.2 KB, 16 views)
File Type: jpg Engine Mounts - BIRD _3.jpg (37.0 KB, 16 views)
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Performed By Frank Sinatra

--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2020, 09:00 PM   #8
Daves55Sedan
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 2,229
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
IIRC, photo five is a front steady rest bracket for some(?) 'full-sized' cars .
Photo 5 shows the front engine steady rest used for the '54 full-size car with 239 Y-block and was also used on '55 and 56 full-sized cars.
Daves55Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 09:42 AM   #9
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,840
Post Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

This photo may be showing a damper coming apart and rubbing the bracket -





This photo is actually showing an ENGINE REST BRKT -



See how it mounted to the core support also?
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Performed By Frank Sinatra

--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN

Last edited by KULTULZ; 11-26-2020 at 09:47 AM.
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 03:14 PM   #10
dmsfrr
Senior Member
 
dmsfrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abq, NM
Posts: 2,651
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
This photo may be showing a damper coming apart and rubbing the bracket -

You are correct. When the rubber layer fails the damper / weight ring 'walks' toward the rear and hits the bracket.
It could be very entertaining if it happens at speed.
There are places that rebuild damper pulleys.
https://damperdoctor.com/

https://www.damperdudes.net/
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bad damper ring example.jpg (41.2 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-27-2020 at 11:19 AM.
dmsfrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 08:51 PM   #11
paul2748
Senior Member
 
paul2748's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Midland Park, NJ
Posts: 2,901
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

The 54 car (not Tbird) steady rest is different than the 55/56 although they look similar. Found this out when I put a 56 engine in my 54.


Early birds do not use a front steady rest - it is actually the engine mount. Steady rods are used on the side in a TBird
__________________
48 Ford Conv
56 Tbird
54 Ford Victoria
paul2748 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 10:04 AM   #12
54vicky
Senior Member
 
54vicky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakville Ontario
Posts: 558
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

as paul said the 54 (239) damper is smaller as is the water pump so neither will interchange.you can swap the 272+ wp and sr if you use the housing from the 272 + then bolt up the pump and steady rest
54vicky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 12:11 PM   #13
zuburg
Senior Member
 
zuburg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 200
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Dang, there were so many things changed on my bird by previous owners, I never know what I have. Since I was putting in a new engine, I decided to order a new water pump for the 292 because I didn’t know the history or shape of the old one. So the water pump fit fine and so did the other pieces including the damper. Is it possible the previous owner put all the 292 parts on the 239 block to make everything fit on the bird? The damper looked like pictures of T-bird dampers I’ve seen including the ones posted above by dsfsrr.

This old bird keeps on giving surprises with every turn.
zuburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 12:46 PM   #14
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,840
Post Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Anther caveat ... ... (fancy word for a 3rd grade drop-out) that may have occurred is that there were two different 1954 239CI ENGINES, one made in DETROIT - (DIF) (EBU - PASS CAR) and the other made in Cleveland (CF) (EBV - TRUCK), the CF having the more advanced design(s) of the later 272. There was also a 256 MERC - FORD PI (EBY) that was a CF engine so after all of these years anything could have happened. If the engine accepts later 272/292 front dress, it is most likely a CF engine, if it is actually a 239 or 256.

The 55/57 BIRD front mount design was taken from the LT (pickup).

dmsfrr had the same situation (239) with his 55 BIRD.
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Performed By Frank Sinatra

--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN

Last edited by KULTULZ; 11-29-2020 at 08:17 AM. Reason: CAN'T GET SHIAT TOGETHER
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 02:05 PM   #15
dmsfrr
Senior Member
 
dmsfrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Abq, NM
Posts: 2,651
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by zuburg View Post
. . . Is it possible the previous owner put all the 292 parts on the 239 block to make everything fit on the bird? The damper looked like pictures of T-bird dampers I’ve seen including the ones posted above by dsfsrr.
. . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
Anther caveat ... ... there were two different 1954 239CI ENGINES, one made in DETROIT (PASS CAR) and the other made in Cleveland (TRUCK), the CLV having the more advanced design(s) of the later 272. There was also a 256 MERC (and FORD PI) that was a CLV engine so after all of these years anything could have happened. If the engine accepts later 292 front dress, it is most likely a CLV engine, if it is actually a 239 or 256.
. . .
dmsfrr had the same situation ... with his 55 BIRD.
Yes it's possible many of the T-Bird 292 parts were put on the 239.
The Cleveland cast '54 256 block & heads that were in my '55 had the correct style oil pan, valley pan, timing cover, water pump spacer and damper pulley on them to fit in the T-Bird engine compartment. There was also a '57 "B" intake manif and '57 tach drive dist on it. (figure that one out )
The blocks themselves seem to be similar enough that nearly all of the bolt-on parts fit just fine.
I suspect Ford did this on purpose so the same blocks could be used across car & truck model lines for inventory, redesign and re-tooling cost savings.
.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EBY 256 block.jpg (45.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg 4 lower bolts, timing cover.jpg (48.7 KB, 10 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-29-2020 at 04:15 PM.
dmsfrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2020, 04:33 PM   #16
Daves55Sedan
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 2,229
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
The 54 car (not Tbird) steady rest is different than the 55/56 although they look similar.
TRUE. The '54 239 CAR engine (Detroit) had slightly smaller front engine mount, timing cover, water pump and intake manifold as well as funky heads with intake ports closer together than later Y-Blocks, but just to look at them separately, you cant tell them apart unless you have casting numbers memorized.
I should have said '54 Car engine front mount is not INTERCHANGEABLE with '55 and '56 cars.
I believe the late '54 239 and all '55 239 pickup truck engine parts (Cleveland) mentioned in the first sentence ARE interchangable with the '55/56 272/292 Y-blocks but not 100% sure.
Daves55Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 12:06 PM   #17
Tomjc
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Burlington, Iowa
Posts: 54
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

why do you think Mercury did not use front mount?
Tomjc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 05:23 PM   #18
Daves55Sedan
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Granite City, Illinois
Posts: 2,229
Default Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomjc View Post
why do you think Mercury did not use front mount?
Mercury used a 254 cu in Y-block beginning in '54, and had the same front engine mounts as the Ford car had. I assume the 254 was made at the Cleveland plant, but don't know. If they were made at Cleveland, they would have had the 272/292 front mount. But, like I say, it's too hard to tell the '54 Detroit 239 front mount from the Cleveland 239/272/292 front mount (fits '54/55/56 car frames) unless you are looking at them side-by-side.
Daves55Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 06:12 PM   #19
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,840
Question Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomjc View Post

why do you think Mercury did not use front mount?
Are you saying MERC did not use the ENGINE FRONT STEADY REST? Many times these parts were discarded.
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Performed By Frank Sinatra

--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2020, 06:16 PM   #20
KULTULZ
Senior Member
 
KULTULZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: W(BY GOD)V
Posts: 2,840
Post Re: Front engine mount for 292 Y-block

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan View Post


Mercury used a 254 cu in Y-block beginning in '54
256 CI Dave. It was CF. Was also used on 54 FORD PI.

I don't have access to my MERC CATALOGS right now but this is interesting.
__________________
THE MOBS' GREATEST HITS
Performed By Frank Sinatra

--------------------------------------
MEL DIVISION - 1958-1960

MERCURY - EDSEL - LINCOLN
KULTULZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:55 AM.