Thermostat?

[1929]

Is the majority using 160 or 180?

[Fordfan29]

I run a 160. I rebuilt the radiator several years ago and had more fins per inch than stock. I was the only car of five that did not overheat on a three week trip to Calgary. I went with the 160 so if the car started to heat I had a 20 degree cushion. It also should put less heat in to the interior.

[WHN]

Old retired men sometimes open their mouth when they shouldn’t, so here we go.

Model A’s don’t need thermostats. They were not designed for a thermostat.

They use a syphon driven cooling system. The water pump is mounted at the out flow unlike newer cars. The water pump really only helps cooling at higher speeds. Up until the late 50’s, thermostats would be removed by many newer car owners in the summer months to increase flow of coolant.

Thermostats used in a Model A, that are installed without a by pass, could create a problem with your water pump.

Potential for oil flash on cylinder walls and hot spots with boiling.

The higher you are above sea level, the more likely you could see a problem with boiling.

Even a 160 degree thermostat might not be fully open until coolant reaches +180 degrees.

Google “Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Seminar ” good info.

Sorry if my comments offend anyone. I feel very strongly on a couple of things that have to do with these cars and a thermostat is one of them. Enjoy.

[daren007]

My A would not warm up in cold weather without one.

[1929]

Originally Posted by WHN

Old retired men sometimes open their mouth when they shouldn’t, so here we go.

Model A’s don’t need thermostats. They were not designed for a thermostat.

They use a syphon driven cooling system. The water pump is mounted at the out flow unlike newer cars. The water pump really only helps cooling at higher speeds. Up until the late 50’s, thermostats would be removed by many newer car owners in the summer months to increase flow of coolant.

Thermostats used in a Model A, that are installed without a by pass, could create a problem with your water pump.

Potential for oil flash on cylinder walls and hot spots with boiling.

The higher you are above sea level, the more likely you could see a problem with boiling.

Even a 160 degree thermostat might not be fully open until coolant reaches +180 degrees.

Google “Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Seminar ” good info.

Sorry if my comments offend anyone. I feel very strongly on a couple of things that have to do with these cars and a thermostat is one of them. Enjoy.

Good information.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I bought BOTH & had a choice, depending on the Season.
Bill Warm

[slammin]

The debate rages on! Its a fact that better combustion happens at higher temps. With temperatures below 75 degrees, my 29 never got over 145. I installed a Vintage Precision housing and 160 degree thermostat. Even with summer temps in the mid 90s, my gauge never exceeds 175. Granted, these are 30 min. trips, not climbing into the surrounding mountains. IIRC by the mid 30s Fords had thermostats from the factory. I've heard the argument "Henry didn't put thermostats in the Model A." He also filled the crankcase with 30 weight non-detergent oil.

[Big hammer]

I’am running 160* stat and when I’ve checked the temperature with pocket gauge, its been about 175*, never over 180*. I don’t drive it alot or start much, so it warms up quickly and burns off condensation sooner :-)

[GerryAllen]

I use a 160 degree thermostat, it seems to work ok. I have heard both sides of the discussion and opted for a 160 thermostat.
JMO
Gerry Birch Bay Wa

[Curtis in MA]

I use a 160. I do mostly short drives and want it to heat up fast to burn off junk.
180 was to close to the boiling point.

[1929]

I guess most use a 160, that's what I have now, I was just wondering if I should change to a 180, but since most have the 160, I wont change it.

[woofa.express]

Originally Posted by WHN

Old retired men sometimes open their mouth when they shouldn’t, so here we go.

Model A’s don’t need thermostats. They were not designed for a thermostat.

They use a syphon driven cooling system. The water pump is mounted at the out flow unlike newer cars. The water pump really only helps cooling at higher speeds. Up until the late 50’s, thermostats would be removed by many newer car owners in the summer months to increase flow of coolant.

Thermostats used in a Model A, that are installed without a by pass, could create a problem with your water pump.

Potential for oil flash on cylinder walls and hot spots with boiling.

The higher you are above sea level, the more likely you could see a problem with boiling.

Even a 160 degree thermostat might not be fully open until coolant reaches +180 degrees.

Google “Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Seminar ” good info.

Sorry if my comments offend anyone. I feel very strongly on a couple of things that have to do with these cars and a thermostat is one of them. Enjoy.

hey old timer. don't be afraid to speak. that's how young blokes learn and that's even how old blokes ( like me) also learn.

[Synchro909]

I have cars with one or the other in them. The 160 T/stat runs at about 145 deg and the 180 at about 175. With no T/stat, I think they runn too cool, especially at this time of year (winter).
With any T/stat, as the motor warms up, the water in the block passes the T/stat rated temp. Water beeding through the holes in the T/stat allows the warm water to reach it and causes it to open. Once it stats to open, the Gauge reads high as the warm water in the block passes the sensor till there is a surge of cooler water through the engine and the temp gauge drops again. The gauge moves up and down with decreasing amplitude as the T/sat opens and closes a little till it settles on the engine's "happy" temp. A long pull up a hill will give a higher eading for a while but it will settle again quickly to a point where the T/stat is partly open, allowing enough water through to maintain the "happy" temp. The point is that with both, the T/sat is only partly open most of the time and it doesn't take many more degrees for it to open enough more to allow more water through and hence maintain the engine at its (the T/stat's) designed temperature.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

The ONLY time you DON'T need a thermostat, is if you have a crummy Old Radiator that quickly warms up, on its' OWN!
Remember, the engine is a water HEATER, the radiator is a water COOLER & a thermostat is needed, to co-ordinate the workings of the two systems!
Hope that is SIMPLE enough to be understood!
Early thermostats were prone to failures, that why Henry didn't use them, until some design upgrades made them somewhat MORE RELIABLE. He should have left a NOTE about it, on his Office Wall!
Bill Simple

[chap52]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

The ONLY time you DON'T need a thermostat, is if you have a crummy Old Radiator that quickly warms up, on its' OWN!
Remember, the engine is a water HEATER, the radiator is a water COOLER & a thermostat is needed, to co-ordinate the workings of the two systems!
Hope that is SIMPLE enough to be understood!
Early thermostats were prone to failures, that why Henry didn't use them, until some design upgrades made them somewhat MORE RELIABLE. He should have left a NOTE about it, on his Office Wall!
Bill Simple

Com-on Bill that's too logical...LOL
Thermostats, oil weight and 6-12 volts are like kids, some work, some don't. it's still up to the individual if they use (hire) them or not.Chap

[Purdy Swoft]

I've never used a thermostat in a model A and have no plans of ever doing so .

[MALAK]

I run a 180 deg. It should be noted that I live in SoCal where July/Aug temps are frequently triple digits.

I drove the car the other day and it was 110 outside and my water temp, when driving, was about 190 and crept up to about 200 when idling. With 50/50 antifreeze there was never a problem. I do have a good radiator

I use the vintage precision thermostat housing and really like it.

http://vintageprecision.com/products...ing/index.html

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Al 29Tudor]

Here is some scientific information that may help you decide if you will use a thermostat or not. Pages 10, 11 and 12 give some info on heat transfer and page 36 explains how coolant move in engines designed to use thermostat and those not designed for thermostats.
Great presentation.


file:///C:/Users/Test%20User/Documen...tion_Final.pdf

[1929]

Originally Posted by Al 29Tudor

Here is some scientific information that may help you decide if you will use a thermostat or not. Pages 10, 11 and 12 give some info on heat transfer and page 36 explains how coolant move in engines designed to use thermostat and those not designed for thermostats.
Great presentation.


file:///C:/Users/Test%20User/Documen...tion_Final.pdf

Cant open the file, was interested in what is written.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by 1929

Cant open the file, was interested in what is written.

Ditto.

[gary678*]

I have a 1930 Model A with a remachined "B" Police Head. I use a 160 degree thermostat and the car runs GREAT!! On a recent trip to Vermont and back mid-80's summer weather (360 miles round trip) the car ran consistently at 160. On long hill pulls the temp would go to 165-170; on the downhill side it would drop to 150-155 ; gas mileage in excess of 20 MPG. If the radiator is sound, a thermostat is the way to go. Just because Henry did not use it does not mean that it's use would not be an improvement in efficiency!

[Ed in Maine]

Several years ago "The Restorer" had an article on temperatures in the Model A engine. It was pointed out that when there are problems with valves and piston rings, they generally occur in the back two cylinders. This is because the back section of the block is a stagnant flow area, the water circulation is less and the temperatures are higher. My Model A with a clean radiator runs about 155 F at the top of the radiator. I believe that to keep the back of the engine within reasonable limits, you need have the water cooler towards the front of the engine. To prove this, the Restorer article bored a hole in the water jacket at the rear of the engine and connected a 1/2 in. copper pipe to a location at the front of the engine increasing the circulation. As predicted the temperatures at the rear were reduced.

Therefore, I wouldn't use a thermostat. Ed

[CarlG]

My engine builder said to run 180 degree thermostat, so that's what I did for 7,000 miles. For the first 5,000 or so, it would show 180-190 most of the time. Then recently when at highway speeds, it would occasionally get up to 200+. So, before this last 1,000 mile trip we took last weekend, I put a new 160 thermostat in it and it never got above 170. Ambient temperatures were hovering around 80 most of the time. For now I am going to stick with the 160. If that seems too low this winter, I'll bump it up to 180 again.

[DHZIEMAN]

Originally Posted by WHN

Old retired men sometimes open their mouth when they shouldn’t, so here we go.

Model A’s don’t need thermostats. They were not designed for a thermostat.

They use a syphon driven cooling system. The water pump is mounted at the out flow unlike newer cars. The water pump really only helps cooling at higher speeds. Up until the late 50’s, thermostats would be removed by many newer car owners in the summer months to increase flow of coolant.

Thermostats used in a Model A, that are installed without a by pass, could create a problem with your water pump.

Potential for oil flash on cylinder walls and hot spots with boiling.

The higher you are above sea level, the more likely you could see a problem with boiling.

Even a 160 degree thermostat might not be fully open until coolant reaches +180 degrees.

Google “Rocky Mountain Model A Club Cooling System Seminar ” good info.

Sorry if my comments offend anyone. I feel very strongly on a couple of things that have to do with these cars and a thermostat is one of them. Enjoy.

As a kid, my dad, a mechanic for many years, drove a Model A Ford, and in the Chicago winters, he drove it and it had no thermostat. The engine when ready pulled the car just fine. I don't know about all the techie stuff you are talking about but, it the car was designed not to have a thermostat, did not come with a thermostat, and that is good enough for me. My current Model A does not have one, it will not get one and the car runs and idles just fine all year long. I may be one of the lucky ones but, I have had thermostats go bad in modern vehicles and just don't see the need if the old girl is doing fine without one!

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Morning all...I don't run a thermostat in our 1931 Tudor. It runs about 170 in the Arizona summer early in the morning at outside temperatures of 95 or so. In the winter, I just use a cloth hand towel looped over the light bar with two safety pins; it blocks off about 1/4 of the radiator, it is just as good as a thermostat and does not conflict with the original water flow as designed by Henry. It is definitely OLD school, but it works...however Dolores thinks it looks 'Dumb'! Ernie in Arizona

[Purdy Swoft]

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Same thoughts exactly in my case. My model A's just don't need a thermostat . I've run model A's for 58 years without a thermostat .

[Al 29Tudor]

Originally Posted by 1929

Cant open the file, was interested in what is written.

Bin traveling - sorry for the delay in getting back to you.


I just tried to access the file, I had to copy the string form the posting, open a new window and past the string in the new window and it opened.
Al

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Hi Al,


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...=248976&page=2


Been reading older posts and came across this. I been through this too. If you are concerned about keeping the motor at the most efficient temp, and having quick warms ups you can install a temp gauge in your motor coolant outlet, and block the inside of the radiator with cardboard or similar. This is the type of method used back in the day, and a method in one of the posts


The danger to using a thermostat is the Model A does not have a bypass to keep some coolant flow when the stat is closed. In certain cases this can cause cylinders 3-4 to overheat and can cause motor damage. This is mentioned in a previous post. Some drill holes through the thermostat to provide bypass, I've heard this is not really sufficient. The post also mentions a way to provide proper bypass, I've heard there is an easier way, but have not investigated since I am having cooling issues.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 1929

Cant open the file, was interested in what is written.

Al, tried your alternate method of opening a new session and pasting this in - did not work. Any chance you can copy the info and reply with it attached?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Another thread. A Barn member has put sensors on his A for measurements. I asked and he replied he is using a 180 degree thermostat. Can not remember if he is using a bypass method. The attachments of his data are very interesting. https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250406

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Here is another thread with his data, different chart showing rpm which illustrates his shift points. Again he is using a 180 degree thermostat.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=250806