The Ford Barn

bigd1101 · 10-29-2018, 07:03 AM

I'm always seeing talk about "waterpump lube" from an additive or anti-freeze. Just what is it "lubing"? There are two grease fittings on each end of the pump for that, I assumed, other than the "leak-less" ones that only have one end that needs grease.

abachman3 · 10-29-2018, 08:02 AM

You are just lubing the bushings in the water pump. Do it sparingly as you do not want to push the grease into the cooling system/radiator.

bigd1101 · 10-29-2018, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachman3

You are just lubing the bushings in the water pump. Do it sparingly as you do not want to push the grease into the cooling system/radiator.

Yes...I get that part. I had copious amounts of grease in the old radiator I am replacing. I'm wondering what "lube" in coolant additives and antifreeze do to a water pump that is basically lubed through the grease fittings on it? Modern automotive water pumps do not require any type of "extra" lubrication. In fact, if the coolant comes in contact with the bearing, the pump has failed.

Jim Brierley · 10-29-2018, 10:23 AM

Good question! I have no idea.

Jim/GA · 10-29-2018, 11:50 AM

On a modern water pump, "water pump lubricant and anti-rust" additive is lubricating the seal in the water pump that keeps the coolant out of the bearing. On better modern water pumps, this seal is ceramic. The bearing is sealed and lubricated for life.

The original Model A water pump design is different. The rear bushing is in contact with the coolant and the graphite packing seal is external to the bushing. I suppose some of the lubricant in the additive will contact the bushing, but it's not really enough to lubricate it for the load it's under. This additive is more useful in a Model A for the anti-rust.

A very slight injection of water pump grease into the rear water pump fitting lubricates the bushing, but you don't want too much. Very little. All other grease fittings on the car can get a couple of pumps of chassis grease with no harm (except for the throwout bearing fitting -- go easy on it, too).

HTH.
.

Y-Blockhead · 10-29-2018, 12:42 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim/TX/GA

All other grease fittings on the car can get a couple of pumps of chassis grease with no harm (except for the throwout bearing fitting -- go easy on it, too).

HTH.
.

"Most" new throwout bearings I have seen are sealed, so what are you lubing anyway? The hub??

Jim/GA · 10-29-2018, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

"Most" new throwout bearings I have seen are sealed, so what are you lubing anyway? The hub??

Yes. And if using an original style throw out bearing, some of that grease is worked up into the bearing. If using a sealed bearing then it does not.

Either way, a little goes a long way.

.

dumb person · 10-29-2018, 11:59 PM

Ceramic seals, or any seal for that matter.
Actually modern pumps require some kind of lube in the water, they don't like it when you run out & add plain water. Been there done that.

Dick So. Cal. · 10-30-2018, 04:54 PM

I have been doing the following for years and never had a problem. . .
You know that drop of oil on the dipstick when you check the oil? Put it on the pump shaft at the front and rear of the water pump.
I check my oil regularly and do this each time.
Give it a try!

Dick

30 Closed Cab PU · 10-31-2018, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick So. Cal.

I have been doing the following for years and never had a problem. . .
You know that drop of oil on the dipstick when you check the oil? Put it on the pump shaft at the front and rear of the water pump.
I check my oil regularly and do this each time.
Give it a try!

Dick

Have not done myself, but have been told to do to oil/lube the generator.

barnstuf · 10-31-2018, 12:42 PM

The subject of special water pump lubricants for the Model A, Model B and 1932 V8 engines is covered by Ford Service Bulletins for Sept-Oct 1932.

It is covered in more detail but I will quote a rather long sentence:

" The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system, whereas many of these special water pump lubricants have a melting point considerably higher than the maximum water temperature which permits such surplus, as is forced into the cooling system, to lodge in the radiator tubes and effectively blocking them.""

bigd1101 · 11-01-2018, 07:14 AM

" The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system,"

Hmmmmm?? So.......is there a grease like this that exists? Like many have said, too much pumping in the back fitting on the old style pumps can lead to a plugged radiator, a problem I had from too much grease in the coolant by previous owners going a bit over with the grease gun.

If there is something like this mentioned above, where it "melts" if injected into the coolant system, why haven't I heard of it and why are we NOT using it???

barnstuf · 11-01-2018, 09:11 AM

The Ford Lubrication Chart of the era specifies that water pumps be lubricated by "pressure gun lubricant" which is the ordinary chassis lubricant of the era.

The question not answered today is if that 1930's data applies top todays chassis lubricants. Any expert out there?

My experience has been in my many years of Model A ownership I have always used chassis grease for the water pump, and have never had a radiator problem. Maybe I was right, maybe I was lucky, as I do not know the characteristic of todays chassis lubricant.

bigd1101 · 11-01-2018, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnstuf

The Ford Lubrication Chart of the era specifies that water pumps be lubricated by "pressure gun lubricant" which is the ordinary chassis lubricant of the era.

The question not answered today is if that 1930's data applies top todays chassis lubricants. Any expert out there?

My experience has been in my many years of Model A ownership I have always used chassis grease for the water pump, and have never had a radiator problem. Maybe I was right, maybe I was lucky, as I do not know the characteristic of todays chassis lubricant.

So...what IS this mystery "melting" grease for water pumps?? I understand that ANY over zealous greasing of the rear fitting will in fact end up in the cooling system and potentially plugging a good radiator. The mystery melting grease does not pose that problem according to the quote.

abachman3 · 11-01-2018, 10:21 AM

The NAPA parts store where I shop has a grease that is listed as 'water pump grease'. I have been using it for several years... but can't really verify that it is better or worse than chassis grease.

bigd1101 · 11-01-2018, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abachman3

The NAPA parts store where I shop has a grease that is listed as 'water pump grease'. I have been using it for several years... but can't really verify that it is better or worse than chassis grease.

So, basically, there IS no such thing as grease that melts at say 170 to 190 degrees enough to be harmless to radiators. That's seems to be the consensus so far.

duke36 · 11-01-2018, 10:35 AM

How about boat trailer wheel grease ?

FRANK PKNY · 11-01-2018, 10:37 AM

CHANGE TO A NEW STYLE WATER PUMP WITH MODERN SEALS Use a good antifreeze year round . Then your problem is solved for good! JMHO

bigd1101 · 11-01-2018, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRANK PKNY

CHANGE TO A NEW STYLE WATER PUMP WITH MODERN SEALS Use a good antifreeze year round . Then your problem is solved for good! JMHO

Too late......I have a new standard pump. I have been told that you can loosen the large brass packing nut when lubing to keep the grease from getting into the coolant.....as it will push out the loose nut area (path of least resistance).

Jim/GA · 11-01-2018, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigd1101

So...what IS this mystery "melting" grease for water pumps?? I understand that ANY over zealous greasing of the rear fitting will in fact end up in the cooling system and potentially plugging a good radiator. The mystery melting grease does not pose that problem according to the quote.

When I was a kid, my Dad kept a separate small grease gun filled with what he called "water pump grease" that we used on the rear fitting of the Model A water pump.

We also had a '41 Chrysler with a grease fitting on the water pump and we used that same little grease gun on it. The grease was a light, off-white color. He said it would not plug up the radiator, but to go easy on how much you used anyway.

We also had a larger grease gun filled with chassis grease that was used on all other grease fittings on all the cars (antique and modern). That grease was black (lots of graphite in it).

I have only found 2 water pump greases that are readily available today. One is called "Lubriplate No. 115" and the other is called "Penrite Water Pump Grease". Both are calcium-based greases. (I found reference to a 3rd grease, made by Castrol, but I can't find anyone that sells it today.)

The two water pump greases above are sold by "Restoration Supply Company" and can be found in their catalog at:
https://www.restorationstuff.com/catalog.html

I am sure that there are other suppliers of these products.

Penrite data sheet:
https://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets...e_brochure.pdf

.

10-29-2018, 07:03 AM	#1
bigd1101 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ithaca Posts: 345	Waterpump lube? I'm always seeing talk about "waterpump lube" from an additive or anti-freeze. Just what is it "lubing"? There are two grease fittings on each end of the pump for that, I assumed, other than the "leak-less" ones that only have one end that needs grease.

10-29-2018, 08:02 AM	#2
abachman3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Western Springs, IL Posts: 323	Re: Waterpump lube? You are just lubing the bushings in the water pump. Do it sparingly as you do not want to push the grease into the cooling system/radiator.

10-29-2018, 10:23 AM	#4
Jim Brierley Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 4,087	Re: Waterpump lube? Good question! I have no idea.

10-29-2018, 11:50 AM	#5
Jim/GA Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Young Harris, GA Posts: 1,819	Re: Waterpump lube? On a modern water pump, "water pump lubricant and anti-rust" additive is lubricating the seal in the water pump that keeps the coolant out of the bearing. On better modern water pumps, this seal is ceramic. The bearing is sealed and lubricated for life. The original Model A water pump design is different. The rear bushing is in contact with the coolant and the graphite packing seal is external to the bushing. I suppose some of the lubricant in the additive will contact the bushing, but it's not really enough to lubricate it for the load it's under. This additive is more useful in a Model A for the anti-rust. A very slight injection of water pump grease into the rear water pump fitting lubricates the bushing, but you don't want too much. Very little. All other grease fittings on the car can get a couple of pumps of chassis grease with no harm (except for the throwout bearing fitting -- go easy on it, too). HTH. . __________________ Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!"

10-29-2018, 11:59 PM	#8
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: Waterpump lube? Ceramic seals, or any seal for that matter. Actually modern pumps require some kind of lube in the water, they don't like it when you run out & add plain water. Been there done that. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

10-30-2018, 04:54 PM	#9
Dick So. Cal. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: El Segundo CA Posts: 181	Re: Waterpump lube? I have been doing the following for years and never had a problem. . . You know that drop of oil on the dipstick when you check the oil? Put it on the pump shaft at the front and rear of the water pump. I check my oil regularly and do this each time. Give it a try! Dick

10-31-2018, 12:42 PM	#11
barnstuf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 2,840	Re: Waterpump lube? The subject of special water pump lubricants for the Model A, Model B and 1932 V8 engines is covered by Ford Service Bulletins for Sept-Oct 1932. It is covered in more detail but I will quote a rather long sentence: " The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system, whereas many of these special water pump lubricants have a melting point considerably higher than the maximum water temperature which permits such surplus, as is forced into the cooling system, to lodge in the radiator tubes and effectively blocking them.""

11-01-2018, 07:14 AM	#12
bigd1101 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Ithaca Posts: 345	Re: Waterpump lube? " The water pumps (both 4 cylinder and V8) were designed to use pressure gun lubricants which melt at temperatures below the temperatures reached by the water in the cooling system, and offer little resistance to the flow of the water should any find its way into the cooling system," Hmmmmm?? So.......is there a grease like this that exists? Like many have said, too much pumping in the back fitting on the old style pumps can lead to a plugged radiator, a problem I had from too much grease in the coolant by previous owners going a bit over with the grease gun. If there is something like this mentioned above, where it "melts" if injected into the coolant system, why haven't I heard of it and why are we NOT using it???

11-01-2018, 09:11 AM	#13
barnstuf Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Cape Cod MA Posts: 2,840	Re: Waterpump lube? The Ford Lubrication Chart of the era specifies that water pumps be lubricated by "pressure gun lubricant" which is the ordinary chassis lubricant of the era. The question not answered today is if that 1930's data applies top todays chassis lubricants. Any expert out there? My experience has been in my many years of Model A ownership I have always used chassis grease for the water pump, and have never had a radiator problem. Maybe I was right, maybe I was lucky, as I do not know the characteristic of todays chassis lubricant.

11-01-2018, 10:21 AM	#15
abachman3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Western Springs, IL Posts: 323	Re: Waterpump lube? The NAPA parts store where I shop has a grease that is listed as 'water pump grease'. I have been using it for several years... but can't really verify that it is better or worse than chassis grease.

11-01-2018, 10:35 AM	#17
duke36 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 1,414	Re: Waterpump lube? How about boat trailer wheel grease ?

11-01-2018, 10:37 AM	#18
FRANK PKNY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: POUGHKEEPSIE NY 12601 Posts: 1,016	Re: Waterpump lube? CHANGE TO A NEW STYLE WATER PUMP WITH MODERN SEALS Use a good antifreeze year round . Then your problem is solved for good! JMHO __________________ [email protected]